WATask & Ajax question
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Is WATask suited to Ajax-based WATask-like processes at the sub-component
level i.e. can I have a page that contains a component that is a WATask-like thing, with its own workflow? _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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> Is WATask suited to Ajax-based WATask-like processes at the sub-component
> level i.e. can I have a page that contains a component that is a WATask-like > thing, with its own workflow? No, #call: and #answer: like constructs currently don't work together with AJAX. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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"Lukas Renggli" <[hidden email]> wrote in message news:[hidden email]... >> Is WATask suited to Ajax-based WATask-like processes at the sub-component >> level i.e. can I have a page that contains a component that is a >> WATask-like >> thing, with its own workflow? > > No, #call: and #answer: like constructs currently don't work together with > AJAX. > > Lukas Any idea if something like this is in the works? Until then, any hints on how to take advantages of components/#call without losing Ajax? Thanks, Sophie _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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> Any idea if something like this is in the works? Until then, any hints on
> how to take advantages of components/#call without losing Ajax? Not that I know of. The current model of Seaside does not allow to do that kind of things easily. One reason for this is that component boundaries cannot be identified clearly in XHTML. Seaside cannot know what parts of a page change due tue a #call: or #answer:. Moreover it is ambiguous how backtracking should work in an AJAX application. Building AJAX heavy applications in Seaside is truly painful. AJAX does not work together with replacing children and the #call:/#answer: mechanism. Seaside and AJAX work well together for small status updates of an existing component tree. Also enhancing the user experience by providing sophisticated widgets or submitting and updating forms works very well. Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Thank you Lukas.
"Lukas Renggli" <[hidden email]> wrote > AJAX > does not work together with replacing children and the #call:/#answer: > mechanism. Is there a way for a newbie to understand a bit more specifically what kinds of things to do vs. to not bother trying? e.g. can I have an in-place editor somewhere on a page, and also another link that replaces some (other) subcomponent with a #call? You may have answered this already, but like I said ... newbie :-) Thanks again, Sophie p.s. If I had a choice, I would sacrifice backtracking before giving up Ajax. _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Re: Re: WATask & Ajax quest
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> Is there a way for a newbie to understand a bit more specifically what kinds
> of things to do vs. to not bother trying? - Don't try #call: and #answer: during AJAX actions, always do a full refresh if you need this functionality. - Don't try to replace children during AJAX actions without specific precautions. E.g. you have to make sure that all the children you are possibly going to show are returned by #children. See SUTabPanel and SUAccordion for examples. > e.g. can I have an in-place editor > somewhere on a page, and also another link that replaces some (other) > subcomponent with a #call? You may have answered this already, but like I > said ... newbie :-) Yes, that makes sense. As a rule of thumb I would say: Only use AJAX if it affects small and nicely defined parts of the page (aka widgets like SUAccordion, SUTabPanel, SUTiredList, and the other examples coming with Scriptaculous). Don't try to use AJAX if it affects big parts of the page, including many different components or parts of different components. Don't use it together with #call: and #answer: either. HTH? Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Re: WATask & Ajax question
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
> Building AJAX heavy applications in Seaside is truly painful.
> AJAX does not work together with replacing children and the > #call:/#answer: > mechanism. > Hi Lukas, all, I'm using intensely ajax and figured out a way to mimic 95% of behavior of call:/answer: mechanism with (yet again) the MVP components I'm using. I can make a component do something like: AnyPresenter>>askSomeQuestionAndDo: aBlock self prompt: 'Some question..' onAnswer: aBlock MVPPresenter>>prompt: aString onAnswer: aBlock "Makes the prompter to be superposed to the receiver until an user answer is given." self superpose: (MVPPrompter new model: aString; onUnsuperposition: aBlock; yourself) So when AnyPresenter is updated the prompter is superposed until an answer is given by the user. (In fact you can superpose any presenter to any presenter). It's very new, I made that about 10 days ago but I have no complains. Of course backtrack does not work with this as any other ajax but at least I have the feature without relinquishing to intense ajax at a very fair price. Cheers, Sebastian PD: Once inside application I'm not using tasks anymore. > Seaside and AJAX work well together for small status updates > of an existing component tree. Also enhancing the user > experience by providing sophisticated widgets or submitting > and updating forms works very well. > > Cheers, > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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> So when AnyPresenter is updated the prompter is superposed until an answer
> is given by the user. (In fact you can superpose any presenter to any > presenter). How is #superpose: implemented? What is the difference of #superpose: to the #show: and #answer:? What happens if you hit refresh in the browser when a superposed dialog is shown? Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
"Lukas Renggli" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> HTH? Very much, thank you! _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Re: WATask & Ajax question
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
> [1] How is #superpose: implemented? [2] What is the difference of
#superpose: > to the #show: and #answer:? [3] What happens if you hit refresh > in the browser when a superposed dialog is shown? > > Cheers, > Lukas > > -- Hi Lukas, [1] could take a little long to explain but basically adds dynamically a children that will be the only thing rendered when present. Removes it when unsuperposed. [2] to start it does not uses decorations at all. It uses plain seaside components. Well not all that plain you know because in fact I'm making it only to use components that are subclasses of MVPPresenter (which is a subclass of WAComponent). [3] It works exactly as expected: keeps superposed until an answer is given (hey don't think I'm using #renderContentOn: in a "traditional" way for this and other features I'm using). Cheers, Sebastian _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Re: WATask & Ajax question
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What does P stand for in MVPPresenter? ;)
-Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sebastian Sastre > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:04 PM > To: 'Seaside - general discussion' > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > > [1] How is #superpose: implemented? [2] What is the difference of > #superpose: > > to the #show: and #answer:? [3] What happens if you hit refresh > > in the browser when a superposed dialog is shown? > > > > Cheers, > > Lukas > > > > -- > Hi Lukas, > > [1] could take a little long to explain but basically adds dynamically > children that will be the only thing rendered when present. Removes it > when > unsuperposed. > [2] to start it does not uses decorations at all. It uses plain seaside > components. Well not all that plain you know because in fact I'm making it > only to use components that are subclasses of MVPPresenter (which is a > subclass of WAComponent). > [3] It works exactly as expected: keeps superposed until an answer is > given > (hey don't think I'm using #renderContentOn: in a "traditional" way for > this > and other features I'm using). > > Cheers, > > Sebastian > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Re: WATask & Ajax question
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Grrrrr Boris.. Boris..
what about keeping the namespace of Model View Presenter seaside framework to be called MVP? What can really disturb your mind is that in fact it should not be taken literally because the real View part is happening a half in seaside and a half in the user agent VM space ;) cheers! Sebastian Sastre > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Boris Popov > Enviado el: Viernes, 16 de Noviembre de 2007 20:05 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > What does P stand for in MVPPresenter? ;) > > -Boris > > -- > +1.604.689.0322 > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 > > [hidden email] > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the > message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains > information that is private and confidential. If you have > received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the > entire message including any attachments. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sebastian Sastre > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:04 PM > > To: 'Seaside - general discussion' > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > > > > [1] How is #superpose: implemented? [2] What is the difference of > > #superpose: > > > to the #show: and #answer:? [3] What happens if you hit > refresh in > > > the browser when a superposed dialog is shown? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Lukas > > > > > > -- > > Hi Lukas, > > > > [1] could take a little long to explain but basically adds > dynamically > a > > children that will be the only thing rendered when present. > Removes it > > when unsuperposed. > > [2] to start it does not uses decorations at all. It uses plain > seaside > > components. Well not all that plain you know because in fact I'm > making it > > only to use components that are subclasses of MVPPresenter > (which is a > > subclass of WAComponent). > > [3] It works exactly as expected: keeps superposed until an > answer is > > given (hey don't think I'm using #renderContentOn: in a > "traditional" > > way > for > > this > > and other features I'm using). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Sebastian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Re: WATask & Ajax question
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Well, not all dialects support namespaces and ones that do usually throw
everything in 'Seaside'. In fact, arguably, Seaside is not MVP anyway :) -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sebastian Sastre > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:14 PM > To: 'Seaside - general discussion' > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > Grrrrr Boris.. Boris.. > > what about keeping the namespace of Model View Presenter seaside > framework to be called MVP? > > What can really disturb your mind is that in fact it should not > taken literally because the real View part is happening a half in seaside > and a half in the user agent VM space ;) > > cheers! > > Sebastian Sastre > > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > > de Boris Popov > > Enviado el: Viernes, 16 de Noviembre de 2007 20:05 > > Para: Seaside - general discussion > > Asunto: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > > > What does P stand for in MVPPresenter? ;) > > > > -Boris > > > > -- > > +1.604.689.0322 > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 > > > > [hidden email] > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the > > message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains > > information that is private and confidential. If you have > > received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the > > entire message including any attachments. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > > > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sebastian Sastre > > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:04 PM > > > To: 'Seaside - general discussion' > > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > > > > > > [1] How is #superpose: implemented? [2] What is the difference > > > #superpose: > > > > to the #show: and #answer:? [3] What happens if you hit > > refresh in > > > > the browser when a superposed dialog is shown? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Lukas > > > > > > > > -- > > > Hi Lukas, > > > > > > [1] could take a little long to explain but basically adds > > dynamically > > a > > > children that will be the only thing rendered when present. > > Removes it > > > when unsuperposed. > > > [2] to start it does not uses decorations at all. It uses plain > > seaside > > > components. Well not all that plain you know because in fact I'm > > making it > > > only to use components that are subclasses of MVPPresenter > > (which is a > > > subclass of WAComponent). > > > [3] It works exactly as expected: keeps superposed until an > > answer is > > > given (hey don't think I'm using #renderContentOn: in a > > "traditional" > > > way > > for > > > this > > > and other features I'm using). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Sebastian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > > seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Re: WATask & Ajax question
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Squeak has no namespaces but the traditional 3 chars prefix is funcioning
almost like that so that's the point. Boris you have to take me so formally? Grrrrr.. small talk with me a little ;) cheers, Sebastian Sastre > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Boris Popov > Enviado el: Viernes, 16 de Noviembre de 2007 20:17 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > Well, not all dialects support namespaces and ones that do > usually throw everything in 'Seaside'. In fact, arguably, > Seaside is not MVP anyway :) > > -Boris > > -- > +1.604.689.0322 > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 > > [hidden email] > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the > message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains > information that is private and confidential. If you have > received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the > entire message including any attachments. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sebastian Sastre > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:14 PM > > To: 'Seaside - general discussion' > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > > > Grrrrr Boris.. Boris.. > > > > what about keeping the namespace of Model View > Presenter seaside > > framework to be called MVP? > > > > What can really disturb your mind is that in fact it should not > be > > taken literally because the real View part is happening a half in > seaside > > and a half in the user agent VM space ;) > > > > cheers! > > > > Sebastian Sastre > > > > > > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > > De: [hidden email] > > > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de > > > Boris Popov Enviado el: Viernes, 16 de Noviembre de 2007 20:05 > > > Para: Seaside - general discussion > > > Asunto: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > > > > > What does P stand for in MVPPresenter? ;) > > > > > > -Boris > > > > > > -- > > > +1.604.689.0322 > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains > information that is > > > private and confidential. If you have received it in > error, please > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > > attachments. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:seaside- > > > > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of > Sebastian Sastre > > > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:04 PM > > > > To: 'Seaside - general discussion' > > > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax question > > > > > > > > > [1] How is #superpose: implemented? [2] What is the difference > of > > > > #superpose: > > > > > to the #show: and #answer:? [3] What happens if you hit > > > refresh in > > > > > the browser when a superposed dialog is shown? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Lukas > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Hi Lukas, > > > > > > > > [1] could take a little long to explain but basically adds > > > dynamically > > > a > > > > children that will be the only thing rendered when present. > > > Removes it > > > > when unsuperposed. > > > > [2] to start it does not uses decorations at all. It uses plain > > > seaside > > > > components. Well not all that plain you know because in fact I'm > > > making it > > > > only to use components that are subclasses of MVPPresenter > > > (which is a > > > > subclass of WAComponent). > > > > [3] It works exactly as expected: keeps superposed until an > > > answer is > > > > given (hey don't think I'm using #renderContentOn: in a > > > "traditional" > > > > way > > > for > > > > this > > > > and other features I'm using). > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Sebastian > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > seaside mailing list > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > _______________________________________________ > > > seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > _______________________________________________ > > seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Re: Re: WATask & Ajax questi
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
From my experiences - yes, my some little ones - this is weak point of
Seaside. First stage development without Ajax, seaside is the best platform, but when moving to Ajax, seaside is not that helpful; it even sometimes complicate things. My pilot project did went this path. I hope someday this difficulties could be overcome with sesaside. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> To: Seaside - general discussion <[hidden email]> Sent: 07-11-17 00:52:17 Subject: Re: Re: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax questi Building AJAX heavy applications in Seaside is truly painful. AJAX does not work together with replacing children and the #call:/#answer: mechanism. Cheers, Lukas _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Re: Re: WATask & Ajax questi
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
From my experiences - yes, my some little ones - this is weak point of
Seaside. First stage development without Ajax, seaside is the best platform, but when moving to Ajax, seaside is not that helpful; it even sometimes complicate things. My pilot project did went this path. I hope someday this difficulties could be overcome with sesaside. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> To: Seaside - general discussion <[hidden email]> Sent: 07-11-17 00:52:17 Subject: Re: Re: [Seaside] Re: WATask & Ajax questi Building AJAX heavy applications in Seaside is truly painful. AJAX does not work together with replacing children and the #call:/#answer: mechanism. Cheers, Lukas _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2
"Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It's very new, I made that about 10 days ago but I have no complains. > > Of course backtrack does not work with this as any other ajax but at least > I > have the feature without relinquishing to intense ajax at a very fair > price. Any chance of sharing this? Thanks, Sophie _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Re: Re: WATask & Ajax question
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Hi there,
I'm pro this so I'll try to. Just let me check with business partners and make the intern sell of the idea targeting a MIT kind of license. In about a week or so I think I'll have a definitive position on this, cheers, Sebastian Sastre > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de itsme213 > Enviado el: Sábado, 17 de Noviembre de 2007 17:57 > Para: [hidden email] > Asunto: [Seaside] Re: Re: WATask & Ajax question > > "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > It's very new, I made that about 10 days ago but I have no > complains. > > > > Of course backtrack does not work with this as any other > ajax but at > > least I have the feature without relinquishing to intense ajax at a > > very fair price. > > Any chance of sharing this? > > Thanks, > > Sophie > > > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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"Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote
> I'm pro this so I'll try to. Just let me check with business > partners and make the intern sell of the idea targeting a MIT kind of > license. In about a week or so I think I'll have a definitive position on > this, Definitely looking forward to it! Thanks, Sophie _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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