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What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

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sebastianconcept

What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

Hi guys,

in the TodoMVC page every lib exposed there has its example and a description of what it is and links to resources to convert learn more.

I'm writing to ask what do you think we should say there?

What's Amber concept pitch?

What's the text that describes Amber to the world in the most exciting way (without being bs)?

Here are other people's examples to get you inspired:

AngularJS:

HTML is great for declaring static documents, but it falters when we try to use it for declaring dynamic views in web-applications. AngularJS lets you extend HTML vocabulary for your application. The resulting environment is extraordinarily expressive, readable, and quick to develop.

KnockoutJS:

Knockout.js helps you simplify dynamic JavaScript UIs using the Model-View-ViewModel (MVVM) pattern.

EmberJS:

A framework for creating ambitious web applications.

ReactJS

React is a JavaScript library for creating user interfaces. Its core principles are declarative code, efficiency, and flexibility. Simply specify what your component looks like and React will keep it up-to-date when the underlying data changes.

Dart

Dart is a class-based, object-oriented language with lexical scoping, closures, and optional static typing. Dart helps you build structured modern web apps and is easy to learn for a wide range of developers.

Vanilla JavaScript

JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted, object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser environments as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB.

jQuery

jQuery is a fast, small, and feature-rich JavaScript library. It makes things like HTML document traversal and manipulation, event handling, animation, and Ajax much simpler with an easy-to-use API that works across a multitude of browsers. With a combination of versatility and extensibility, jQuery has changed the way that millions of people write JavaScript.

Amber

you tell me...

Why I think the AngularJS pitch is superb?

A) because it has the structure right:

1. it starts positive about something, then

2. denounces the problem that makes is okay but not great for our future and then

3. describe the essence of the way in which Anglar solves that problem and finally

4. describes how your work would be affected if you use it

B) is short

There is nothing stopping us to use that very structure to describe Amber for what it is

Please send your contribution as we'll need to decide on one

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Herby Vojčík

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

Sebastian Sastre wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> in the TodoMVC page every lib exposed there has its example and a
> description of what it is and links to resources to convert learn more.
>
> I'm writing to ask what do you think we should say there?
> What's Amber concept pitch?
> What's the text that describes Amber to the world in the most exciting
> way (without being bs)?
>
> Here are other people's examples to get you inspired:
>
> AngularJS:
> HTML is great for declaring static documents, but it falters when we
> try to use it for declaring dynamic views in web-applications.
> AngularJS lets you extend HTML vocabulary for your application. The
> resulting environment is extraordinarily expressive, readable, and
> quick to develop.
>
> KnockoutJS:
> Knockout.js helps you simplify dynamic JavaScript UIs using the
> Model-View-ViewModel (MVVM) pattern.
>
> EmberJS:
> A framework for creating ambitious web applications.
>
> ReactJS
>
> React is a JavaScript library for crea

ting user interfaces. Its core

> principles are declarative code, efficiency, and flexibility. Simply
> specify what your component looks like and React will keep it
> up-to-date when the underlying data changes.
>
> Dart
> Dart is a class-based, object-oriented language with lexical scoping,
> closures, and optional static typing. Dart helps you build structured
> modern web apps and is easy to learn for a wide range of developers.
>
> Vanilla JavaScript
> JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted,
> object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the
> scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser
> environments as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB.
>
> jQuery
> jQuery is a fast, small, and feature-rich JavaScript library. It makes
> things like HTML document traversal and manipulation, event handling,
> animation, and Ajax much simpler with an easy-to-use API that works
> across a multitude of bro

wsers. With a combination of versatility and

> extensibility, jQuery has changed the way that millions of people
> write JavaScript.
>
>
> Amber
> you tell me...
>
>
> *Why I think the AngularJS pitch is superb? *
> *
> *
> *A) because it has the structure right:*
> 1. it starts positive about something, then
> 2. denounces the problem that makes is okay but not great for our
> future and then
> 3. describe the essence of the way in which Anglar solves that problem
> and finally
> 4. describes how your work would be affected if you use it
>
> *B) is short*
>
> There is nothing stopping us to use that very structure to describe
> Amber for what it is
>
> Please send your contribution as we'll need to decide on one

You mean something like:

HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications. Amber allows you to combine this canvas with the powerful way of all-object message- passing live development of Smalltalk. The result is the live web with instant fe
edback that lets you develop rich apps in a blazing speed.

But this does not count, because it's all-bs. :-/

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Hannes Hirzel

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

<AmberDefinitionByHerby>

<AssessmentOfCurrentContextOfDevelopment>
HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications.
</AssessmentOfCurrentContextOfDevelopment>

<USP>Amber allows you to combine this canvas
with the powerful way
of all-object message-passing live development of Smalltalk.
</USP>

<benefit>
The result is the live web
with instant feedback
that lets you develop rich apps
in a blazing speed.
<benefit>

</AmberDefinitionByHerby>

I like the proposal by Herby.

Key statements
- Amber uses all-object message-passing.
- Amber is a live development
- Amber allows you to develop rich applications _fast_.

Regarding
"HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications. "

there is the potential for confusion because the first association
people have if the word 'canvas' appears in connection with HTML /
HTML5 is the HTML canvas used for producing bitmap graphs
<canvas>...</canvas>.

Amber can works with this but this is not the only thing.

So I propose that we rephrase
"HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications. "

so that the word 'canvas' is not used.

[USP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_selling_proposition)

Might be of some interest:

http://plainlanguagenetwork.org/

--Hannes

On 5/31/14, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Sebastian Sastre wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> in the TodoMVC page every lib exposed there has its example and a
>> description of what it is and links to resources to convert learn more.
>>
>> I'm writing to ask what do you think we should say there?
>> What's Amber concept pitch?
>> What's the text that describes Amber to the world in the most exciting
>> way (without being bs)?
>>
>> Here are other people's examples to get you inspired:
>>
>> AngularJS:
>> HTML is great for declaring static documents, but it falters when we
>> try to use it for declaring dynamic views in web-applications.
>> AngularJS lets you extend HTML vocabulary for your application. The
>> resulting environment is extraordinarily expressive, readable, and
>> quick to develop.
>>
>> KnockoutJS:
>> Knockout.js helps you simplify dynamic JavaScript UIs using the
>> Model-View-ViewModel (MVVM) pattern.
>>
>> EmberJS:
>> A framework for creating ambitious web applications.
>>
>> ReactJS
>>
>> React is a JavaScript library for crea
> ting user interfaces. Its core
>> principles are declarative code, efficiency, and flexibility. Simply
>> specify what your component looks like and React will keep it
>> up-to-date when the underlying data changes.
>>
>> Dart
>> Dart is a class-based, object-oriented language with lexical scoping,
>> closures, and optional static typing. Dart helps you build structured
>> modern web apps and is easy to learn for a wide range of developers.
>>
>> Vanilla JavaScript
>> JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted,
>> object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the
>> scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser
>> environments as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB.
>>
>> jQuery
>> jQuery is a fast, small, and feature-rich JavaScript library. It makes
>> things like HTML document traversal and manipulation, event handling,
>> animation, and Ajax much simpler with an easy-to-use API that works
>> across a multitude of bro
> wsers. With a combination of versatility and
>> extensibility, jQuery has changed the way that millions of people
>> write JavaScript.
>>
>>
>> Amber
>> you tell me...
>>
>>
>> *Why I think the AngularJS pitch is superb? *
>> *
>> *
>> *A) because it has the structure right:*
>> 1. it starts positive about something, then
>> 2. denounces the problem that makes is okay but not great for our
>> future and then
>> 3. describe the essence of the way in which Anglar solves that problem
>> and finally
>> 4. describes how your work would be affected if you use it
>>
>> *B) is short*
>>
>> There is nothing stopping us to use that very structure to describe
>> Amber for what it is
>>
>> Please send your contribution as we'll need to decide on one
>
> You mean something like:
>
> HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications. Amber
> allows you to combine this canvas with the powerful way of all-object
> message- passing live development of Smalltalk. The result is the live web
> with instant fe
> edback that lets you develop rich apps in a blazing speed.
>
> But this does not count, because it's all-bs. :-/
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [hidden email].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

sebastianconcept

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

Quantity leads to quality.

Instead of narrowing it early, I would be great to hear more creative and diverse options

There is no problem to select this one or anyone resulting of this, I’m sure it’ll be great

Nicolas will be very influential and is a must but I suggest you Nico hold your horses until you see some contributions first

Also I feel we need agitation because the sarcasm in the first answer seems to have frozen people contributions

Unless nobody wants to see Amber described with the right impact in TodoMVC

Is that the case? Do you guys want to see amber there or not? <- those are rhetorical, don’t answer!

Then what would be YOUR phrase to describe it? <- this is real, please answer!! :D

If you have set yours, please let others express themselves and please hold your opinions for the next stage, we’ll hear all

Don’t feel restricted to a format, presenting our coolest differential is primary to format

So, what’s Amber and why you thing it rocks?

On Jun 3, 2014, at 5:55 AM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

<AmberDefinitionByHerby>

    <AssessmentOfCurrentContextOfDevelopment>
          HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications.
    </AssessmentOfCurrentContextOfDevelopment>

    <USP>Amber allows you to combine this canvas
         with the powerful way
         of all-object message-passing live development of Smalltalk.
    </USP>

<benefit>
     The result is the live web
     with instant feedback
     that lets you develop rich apps
     in a blazing speed.
<benefit>

</AmberDefinitionByHerby>

I like the proposal by Herby.

Key statements
- Amber uses all-object message-passing.
- Amber is a live development
- Amber allows you to develop rich applications _fast_.

Regarding
"HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications. "

there is the potential for confusion because the first association
people have if the word 'canvas' appears in connection with HTML /
HTML5 is the HTML canvas used for producing bitmap graphs
<canvas>...</canvas>.

Amber can works with this but this is not the only thing.

So I propose that we rephrase
   "HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications. "

so that the word 'canvas' is not used.

[USP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_selling_proposition)

Might be of some interest:

http://plainlanguagenetwork.org/

--Hannes

On 5/31/14, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sebastian Sastre wrote:
Hi guys,

in the TodoMVC page every lib exposed there has its example and a
description of what it is and links to resources to convert learn more.

I'm writing to ask what do you think we should say there?
What's Amber concept pitch?
What's the text that describes Amber to the world in the most exciting
way (without being bs)?

Here are other people's examples to get you inspired:

AngularJS:
HTML is great for declaring static documents, but it falters when we
try to use it for declaring dynamic views in web-applications.
AngularJS lets you extend HTML vocabulary for your application. The
resulting environment is extraordinarily expressive, readable, and
quick to develop.

KnockoutJS:
Knockout.js helps you simplify dynamic JavaScript UIs using the
Model-View-ViewModel (MVVM) pattern.

EmberJS:
A framework for creating ambitious web applications.

ReactJS

React is a JavaScript library for crea
ting user interfaces. Its core
principles are declarative code, efficiency, and flexibility. Simply
specify what your component looks like and React will keep it
up-to-date when the underlying data changes.

Dart
Dart is a class-based, object-oriented language with lexical scoping,
closures, and optional static typing. Dart helps you build structured
modern web apps and is easy to learn for a wide range of developers.

Vanilla JavaScript
JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted,
object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the
scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser
environments as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB.

jQuery
jQuery is a fast, small, and feature-rich JavaScript library. It makes
things like HTML document traversal and manipulation, event handling,
animation, and Ajax much simpler with an easy-to-use API that works
across a multitude of bro
wsers. With a combination of versatility and
extensibility, jQuery has changed the way that millions of people
write JavaScript.

Amber
you tell me...

*Why I think the AngularJS pitch is superb? *
*
*
*A) because it has the structure right:*
1. it starts positive about something, then
2. denounces the problem that makes is okay but not great for our
future and then
3. describe the essence of the way in which Anglar solves that problem
and finally
4. describes how your work would be affected if you use it

*B) is short*

There is nothing stopping us to use that very structure to describe
Amber for what it is

Please send your contribution as we'll need to decide on one

You mean something like:

HTML became the new ubiquitous type of canvas for rich applications. Amber
allows you to combine this canvas with the powerful way of all-object
message- passing live development of Smalltalk. The result is the live web
with instant fe
edback that lets you develop rich apps in a blazing speed.

But this does not count, because it's all-bs. :-/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"amber-lang" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to [hidden email].
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
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Nicolas Petton

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

sebastian <[hidden email]> writes:

> Nicolas will be very influential and is a must but I suggest you Nico
> hold your horses until you see some contributions first

Sure :)

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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John McKeon

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

I would suggest you stress what Amber has that none of the above (Angular, Knockout, etc) do:

Amber is THE browser based IDE for modern web application development

AFAIK none of the others have an integrated dev environment. I know angular has some tools. I also know that I am not the most knowledgable person on the subject so please correct me if I am mistaken.

John

On Tuesday, June 3, 2014, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:

sebastian <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'sebastianconcept@gmail.com')">sebastianconcept@...> writes:

> Nicolas will be very influential and is a must but I suggest you Nico
> hold your horses until you see some contributions first

Sure :)

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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jmck.seasidehosting.st

Larry Staton Jr.

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

In reply to this post by sebastianconcept

The maintainers of TodoMVC have disallowed us from even entering Amber Smalltalk:

https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/issues/910

/ls

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 4:00:05 PM UTC-4, Sebastian Sastre wrote:

Hi guys,

in the TodoMVC page every lib exposed there has its example and a description of what it is and links to resources to convert learn more.

I'm writing to ask what do you think we should say there?
What's Amber concept pitch?
What's the text that describes Amber to the world in the most exciting way (without being bs)?

Here are other people's examples to get you inspired:

AngularJS:
HTML is great for declaring static documents, but it falters when we try to use it for declaring dynamic views in web-applications. AngularJS lets you extend HTML vocabulary for your application. The resulting environment is extraordinarily expressive, readable, and quick to develop.

KnockoutJS:
Knockout.js helps you simplify dynamic JavaScript UIs using the Model-View-ViewModel (MVVM) pattern.

EmberJS:
A framework for creating ambitious web applications.

ReactJS

React is a JavaScript library for creating user interfaces. Its core principles are declarative code, efficiency, and flexibility. Simply specify what your component looks like and React will keep it up-to-date when the underlying data changes.

Dart
Dart is a class-based, object-oriented language with lexical scoping, closures, and optional static typing. Dart helps you build structured modern web apps and is easy to learn for a wide range of developers.

Vanilla JavaScript
JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted, object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser environments as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB.

jQuery
jQuery is a fast, small, and feature-rich JavaScript library. It makes things like HTML document traversal and manipulation, event handling, animation, and Ajax much simpler with an easy-to-use API that works across a multitude of browsers. With a combination of versatility and extensibility, jQuery has changed the way that millions of people write JavaScript.

Amber
you tell me...

Why I think the AngularJS pitch is superb?

A) because it has the structure right:
1. it starts positive about something, then
2. denounces the problem that makes is okay but not great for our future and then
3. describe the essence of the way in which Anglar solves that problem and finally
4. describes how your work would be affected if you use it

B) is short

There is nothing stopping us to use that very structure to describe Amber for what it is

Please send your contribution as we'll need to decide on one

sebastianconcept

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

being in the wiki is still good

Also this other site they’re working on looks promising

On Jun 3, 2014, at 3:26 PM, Larry Staton Jr. <[hidden email]> wrote:

The maintainers of TodoMVC have disallowed us from even entering Amber Smalltalk:

https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/issues/910

/ls

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 4:00:05 PM UTC-4, Sebastian Sastre wrote:
Hi guys,

in the TodoMVC page every lib exposed there has its example and a description of what it is and links to resources to convert learn more.

I'm writing to ask what do you think we should say there?
What's Amber concept pitch?
What's the text that describes Amber to the world in the most exciting way (without being bs)?

Here are other people's examples to get you inspired:

AngularJS:
HTML is great for declaring static documents, but it falters when we try to use it for declaring dynamic views in web-applications. AngularJS lets you extend HTML vocabulary for your application. The resulting environment is extraordinarily expressive, readable, and quick to develop.

KnockoutJS:
Knockout.js helps you simplify dynamic JavaScript UIs using the Model-View-ViewModel (MVVM) pattern.

EmberJS:
A framework for creating ambitious web applications.

ReactJS

React is a JavaScript library for creating user interfaces. Its core principles are declarative code, efficiency, and flexibility. Simply specify what your component looks like and React will keep it up-to-date when the underlying data changes.

Dart
Dart is a class-based, object-oriented language with lexical scoping, closures, and optional static typing. Dart helps you build structured modern web apps and is easy to learn for a wide range of developers.

Vanilla JavaScript
JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted, object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser environments as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB.

jQuery
jQuery is a fast, small, and feature-rich JavaScript library. It makes things like HTML document traversal and manipulation, event handling, animation, and Ajax much simpler with an easy-to-use API that works across a multitude of browsers. With a combination of versatility and extensibility, jQuery has changed the way that millions of people write JavaScript.

Amber
you tell me...

Why I think the AngularJS pitch is superb?

A) because it has the structure right:
1. it starts positive about something, then
2. denounces the problem that makes is okay but not great for our future and then
3. describe the essence of the way in which Anglar solves that problem and finally
4. describes how your work would be affected if you use it

B) is short

There is nothing stopping us to use that very structure to describe Amber for what it is

Please send your contribution as we'll need to decide on one

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
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Sean P. DeNigris

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

Administrator

In reply to this post by Larry Staton Jr.

Larry Staton Jr. wrote

The maintainers of TodoMVC have disallowed us from even entering Amber

Can you include a simple MV* layer in your submission and would that sneak you in under the rules?

Cheers,
Sean

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: What is Amber? (text to be used at TodoMVC)

Administrator

In reply to this post by Larry Staton Jr.

Larry Staton Jr. wrote

The maintainers of TodoMVC have disallowed us from even entering Amber
Smalltalk:

https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/issues/910

There is a whole "Compile To JavaScript" section on http://todomvc.com/ including Closure, Dart, and others. Maybe they didn't know exactly what Amber was?

Cheers,
Sean