What's the status of Seaside on D6

I know Esteban has been working on a port of Seaside for Dolphin... how's it
going Esteban?

As there is a lot of noise in the Ruby camp about how good Ruby and Rails
are.. I am having a bit of success showing how good Smalltalk has always
been (my 10 year Smalltalk holiday has maybe given me renewed energy
maybe?), and showing those guys the IDE they really want. But we could do
with getting our act together a bit more and show pragmactic solutions
working with video's and flash etc.

Anyway, with the lovely IDE that OA has provide us, and the ease of which
extensions can be added to give Eclipse/IntelliJ behavior (see:
Intelli-Dolphin) - next on my list are 1) web applications,  2) easy
database connectivity and  3) web testing.

So for 1 - hows the Seaside port going?
For 2 - I guess I'll end looking into Glorp or maybe one of the commerical
things I've seen listed here.
For 3 - Lots of noise on Selenium, and I know there is a Squeak driver for
Selenium so a port should be easy. Alternatively driving IE through COM
should be pretty easy too.

But for Xmas - developing Seaside apps on Dolphin would be really nice...
(I've been good Santa, honest!)

Tim

TimM wrote:

> I know Esteban has been working on a port of Seaside for Dolphin... how's
> it going Esteban?

I don't know how Estaban's getting on, but f you remember the thread,
"WAProcess>>critical:ifError problem", there's an apparently fatal difference
between how Dolphin's continuations work, and how Seaside expects them to work.
IMO Dolphin's behaviour is wrong in two respects, but be that as it may, the
ball seems to be in OA's court.  (Blair's last word on the subject was that
they were too busy with the tail-end of the beta program to look into it at
that time.)

    -- chris

Hi,

Chris Uppal escribió:
> TimM wrote:
>>I know Esteban has been working on a port of Seaside for Dolphin... how's
>>it going Esteban?

> I don't know how Estaban's getting on, but f you remember the thread,
> "WAProcess>>critical:ifError problem", there's an apparently fatal difference
> between how Dolphin's continuations work, and how Seaside expects them to work.

Yes, that's one of the points which is waiting for an official fix,
but a workaround was found, at least to use it in development.

The status is that I have a small release not very factored, with
some bugs and some platform specific issues I can't resolve by
myself (they're out of my scope).

> IMO Dolphin's behaviour is wrong in two respects, but be that as it may, the
> ball seems to be in OA's court.  (Blair's last word on the subject was that
> they were too busy with the tail-end of the beta program to look into it at
> that time.)

That, plus a few personal things, slowed down the port time assigned
to complete it.

Some bugs are platform specific, others are seaside version
specific, and other are untesteable. So I decided to write an
exporter from Squeak to Dolphin using the same framework that uses
the VW port, in order to use the latest stable version. I didn't
wrote the exporter yet :-/

But as Chris states above, I have a serious problem with returning
across processes, which makes most of the "special" features of
seaside unusable (and unstable).
Therefore I don't want to flood the newsgroup with questions,
knowing beforehand that OA is very busy with the release of D6 (now
on PL1) and then CE.

I will be on vacation the first half of january. My first intention
was to have the port complete before the release of CE edition
(which was intended to be released before the end of december), but
given my actual situation the port work will continue after my holidays.

Regards,

--
Esteban.

One more thing,

I have a small weblog of the seaside port on:
<http://dolphinseaside.blogspot.com>

Best regards,

--
Esteban.

"Esteban A. Maringolo" wrote:
>
> ... So I decided to write an
> exporter from Squeak to Dolphin using the same framework that uses
> the VW port, in order to use the latest stable version. I didn't
> wrote the exporter yet :-/

You could try SIF - see: http://www.pocketsmalltalk.com/sif/.
There's a version there for an old Dolphin version. I've used
the Squeak version in a 3.6 vintage image, but haven't tried
it in a newer Squeak.

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:

>
> Some bugs are platform specific, others are seaside version specific,
> and other are untesteable. So I decided to write an exporter from Squeak
> to Dolphin using the same framework that uses the VW port, in order to
> use the latest stable version. I didn't wrote the exporter yet :-/

If you don't want to re-invent the wheel: http://rosettast.sourceforge.net/

Cheers
Joseph

Yanni Chiu wrote:

In X6 you can directly import Squeak packages into Dolphin STS
repository. Just select "Import to repository..." in the packages list
in System or Package Browser. Then under "Files of type" select "Squeak
packages".

Probably I will add support for MCZ files too.

Best regards,

David Gorisek

David Gorisek escribió:
> Yanni Chiu wrote:
>> "Esteban A. Maringolo" wrote:
>>> ... So I decided to write an
>>> exporter from Squeak to Dolphin using the same framework that uses
>>> the VW port, in order to use the latest stable version. I didn't
>>> wrote the exporter yet :-/

>> You could try SIF - see: http://www.pocketsmalltalk.com/sif/.
>> There's a version there for an old Dolphin version. I've used
>> the Squeak version in a 3.6 vintage image, but haven't tried
>> it in a newer Squeak.

The problem is not importing from squeak, the problem is exporting
from it.

> In X6 you can directly import Squeak packages into Dolphin STS
> repository. Just select "Import to repository..." in the packages list
> in System or Package Browser. Then under "Files of type" select "Squeak
> packages".

Yes, importing directly from Squeak to STS would be the best option.
But by now I don't own a PRO license.

> Probably I will add support for MCZ files too.

That will be a very good addition to STS.
How hard would it be? I think it worth the effort.

I will be happier implementing the monticello importer than writing
an exporter which has to be maintained in parallel to the original mcz.

If I can help...


--
Esteban.

Esteban,

if you have Smalltalk code which decompresses MCZ file so that I can get
to Smalltalk chunks (or whatever its textual contents is) that would be
enough. In STS I just need to make a wrapper class which is then
forwarded to the code which does versioning and storing of code into
repository.

Thanks and best regards,

David Gorisek



Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:

David,

David Gorisek escribió:
> Esteban,
>
> if you have Smalltalk code which decompresses MCZ file so that I can get
> to Smalltalk chunks (or whatever its textual contents is) that would be
> enough. In STS I just need to make a wrapper class which is then
> forwarded to the code which does versioning and storing of code into
> repository.

Well, the MCZ is just a zip file with a renamed extension.

If you rename it to .zip you can open it with any zip file browser.
Which includes some control files, an image-segment binary, and a
source.st chunk file.

If I find a way to extract the package files into separate streams
I'll pass the code to you.

Thanks in advance,

--
Esteban.

Esteban, David,

> Well, the MCZ is just a zip file with a renamed extension.
> [...]
> If I find a way to extract the package files into separate streams
> I'll pass the code to you.

My Z-Kit will do that kind of thing easily.  David, I don't know if it's
suitable for your purposes, but if so then you're welcome to use it.

    -- chris

Chris Uppal escribió:
> Esteban, David,
>>Well, the MCZ is just a zip file with a renamed extension.
>>[...]
>>If I find a way to extract the package files into separate streams
>>I'll pass the code to you.
> My Z-Kit will do that kind of thing easily.  David, I don't know if it's
> suitable for your purposes, but if so then you're welcome to use it.

I was thinking in your goodies when I noticed that monticello
packages were just zipped files. I used your compressed streams, but
never noticed the Zip Files package.

BTW, in your goodies page, the header of TarFile Tree Model says
"ZipFile Tree Model". Surely a copy and paste typo.

Best Regards,

--
Esteban.

Guys if we could work out easy ways to seamlessly import Squeak files that
would be a massive help.

In fact it makes you wonder if maybe we could use the squeak repository for
Dolphin stuff (depending on how seemlessly you could import - doubtful but a
germ of an idea).

It feels a bit like we should try and rally round getting a DolphinMap up to
a level where you can just connect and import stuff. David could STS allow
us to do that - have a group repository we can at least read from?

Tim

"Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote in
message news:43a2f10c$[hidden email]...

TimM wrote:
> It feels a bit like we should try and rally round getting a DolphinMap up to
> a level where you can just connect and import stuff. David could STS allow
> us to do that - have a group repository we can at least read from?
I could setup a WebDAV server (e.g. packages.dolphinmap) where everyone
could put packages ... this would at least allow to have a central
repositry. Database with a searchable index would be the next step.

CU,

Udo

Esteban,

> BTW, in your goodies page, the header of TarFile Tree Model says
> "ZipFile Tree Model". Surely a copy and paste typo.

Eeek !

Thank you.

    -- chris

"Udo Schneider" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> TimM wrote:
>> It feels a bit like we should try and rally round getting a DolphinMap up
>> to a level where you can just connect and import stuff. David could STS
>> allow us to do that - have a group repository we can at least read from?
> I could setup a WebDAV server (e.g. packages.dolphinmap) where everyone
> could put packages ... this would at least allow to have a central
> repositry. Database with a searchable index would be the next step.


Udo - you might be on to something there. I wonder if a WebDAV folder with
an STS folder in it might work?

I'm trying to think bigger than just a set of files - I quite like how the
CinCom store just lets you connect, and you simply find that things you want
and then just load them up (same with Squeak).

Isn't that what STS does for us now? I'm just not sure if you can open a
different repository with STS (although I can't imagine it should be a
problem - especially if you don't want to write to it).

Submitters could then have a separate image setup to write to that
repository?

Do you think this is possible? It would be a big time saver for everyone and
might just help combat the idea that opensource in Dolphin is unsupportable.
It might focus everyone's efforts a little bit too.

Tim

TimM wrote:
> Udo - you might be on to something there. I wonder if a WebDAV folder with
> an STS folder in it might work?
I tried to put an STS Repositry on a webshare ... didn't work. I tried
it with the windows built-in WebDAV Client and Novells NetDrive. The
problem is that in both cases the complete repositry is allways
transfered once STS accesses it. So no real benefit in putting STS on a
WebDAV share :-(

> I'm trying to think bigger than just a set of files - I quite like how the
> CinCom store just lets you connect, and you simply find that things you want
> and then just load them up (same with Squeak).
This was my original intention for DolphinMap. I allready have some code
  working here (I hope to have time around xmas to work on it) which
implements a package database. I.E. the packages are not stored on DM
but rather referenced from it.

> Isn't that what STS does for us now? I'm just not sure if you can open a
> different repository with STS (although I can't imagine it should be a
> problem - especially if you don't want to write to it).
You can explicitly open STS on a different "path" ... this was discussed
sometime ago here.

> Submitters could then have a separate image setup to write to that
> repository?
Good idea altough I would prefer the simple solution ... e.g. read
anonymously but write with uid/pwd.

> Do you think this is possible? It would be a big time saver for everyone and
> might just help combat the idea that opensource in Dolphin is unsupportable.
> It might focus everyone's efforts a little bit too.
You're right. I think even the possibility for "newbies" to browse all
the goodies (laying around somewhere) from a central tool would be great.

CU,

Udo

TimM wrote:
This could be easily done. The only thing that is preventing me doing
this  at the moment is the chronic lack of time because my time has to
be dedicated to projects which make money.

Maybe I will find some time during the next two weeks to set-up STS web
front-end...

Best regards,

David Gorisek