Which Squeak problem do you try to solve

After reading your interesting project website, I'm still not quite sure which (Squeak) problem do you try to solve with Pharo? Or is it more an exploratory project?
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> After reading your interesting project website, I'm still not quite sure
> which (Squeak) problem do you try to solve with Pharo? Or is it more an
> exploratory project?

Did you see <http://www.pharo-project.org>?

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Markus

We loved Squeak: I'm amongst the guy with marcus that did so much etoy  
and squeak presentations...
We translated etoy books in french, german....
We wrote SqueakByExample, we gave lecture all around europe....
We produced a robust release (3.9)
We pushed unit tests in squeak.

But but but we got burnt to the point of being sick of smalltalk  
because of code rot
and lack of consciousness. Squeak nearly killed our fun and before  
turning to ruby or python we
gave a try to do pharo.

Did you look at the code of squeak
        Project
        Etoy
        PasteUpMorph
        Morph
classes? if not I suggest you do it :) This is striking.
Take for example Project>>enter: returningFlag revert: revertFlag  
saveForRevert: saveForRevert

Pharo is not an exploratory project. We want to have a good open  
source smalltalk.
Eventually with a scripting syntax, closure, modules, new mop, new  
files library, unicode support,
clean compiler, ..... better IDE, refactoring, better Lint rules,  
smaller memory footprint.
We want to make sure that people can invent good/excellent sotfware  
system with pharo
and at the same time we want to reinvent/rethink smalltalk. So this  
will be difficult
because users will complain but they will get a better system: more  
tests, more documentation, better
design....
Even rebuild etoy on top of it. But only on top not everywhere inside.

So we free to join. Now pharo is not a democracy there is no voting  
board process (because
we were with goran the guys that started the squeakfoundation): we  
will let the community
discuss, propose, argue, **send code** and at the end if there is a  
conflict we will decide (adrian, marcus, mickael, and me)
Normally this will be a rare case.  We can decide to ask somebody to  
join the board but this is our decision.
We will be transparent, all our decisions are public.
Now as a contributor you can really get an impact: alain/gary are a  
clear examples of that -- we value their
code action -- alain removed MVC and isMorphic. So we will always  
consider your contributions
and tell you why we do not integrate them, we will always consider  
code that improve the system.

Stef



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Markus,

I hesitate to think I could say it any better than Stef did.  I can, however, say it differently.  The answer to your question is "All of them."  Obviously, that will not happen in one release, as witnessed by the milestones on the wiki.

Bill


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:47 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: {Spam?} Re: [Pharo-project] Which Squeak problem do you try to solve

Markus

We loved Squeak: I'm amongst the guy with marcus that did so much etoy and squeak presentations...
We translated etoy books in french, german....
We wrote SqueakByExample, we gave lecture all around europe....
We produced a robust release (3.9)
We pushed unit tests in squeak.

But but but we got burnt to the point of being sick of smalltalk because of code rot and lack of consciousness. Squeak nearly killed our fun and before turning to ruby or python we gave a try to do pharo.

Did you look at the code of squeak
        Project
        Etoy
        PasteUpMorph
        Morph
classes? if not I suggest you do it :) This is striking.
Take for example Project>>enter: returningFlag revert: revertFlag
saveForRevert: saveForRevert

Pharo is not an exploratory project. We want to have a good open source smalltalk.
Eventually with a scripting syntax, closure, modules, new mop, new files library, unicode support, clean compiler, ..... better IDE, refactoring, better Lint rules, smaller memory footprint.
We want to make sure that people can invent good/excellent sotfware system with pharo and at the same time we want to reinvent/rethink smalltalk. So this will be difficult because users will complain but they will get a better system: more tests, more documentation, better design....
Even rebuild etoy on top of it. But only on top not everywhere inside.

So we free to join. Now pharo is not a democracy there is no voting board process (because we were with goran the guys that started the squeakfoundation): we will let the community discuss, propose, argue, **send code** and at the end if there is a conflict we will decide (adrian, marcus, mickael, and me) Normally this will be a rare case.  We can decide to ask somebody to join the board but this is our decision.
We will be transparent, all our decisions are public.
Now as a contributor you can really get an impact: alain/gary are a clear examples of that -- we value their code action -- alain removed MVC and isMorphic. So we will always consider your contributions and tell you why we do not integrate them, we will always consider code that improve the system.

Stef



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