Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

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Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Stéphane Ducasse
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?



After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:

Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.

        Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."

Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.

Stef
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Re: [Pharo-users] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

laurent laffont
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?


I use Pharo because in this World I am God - I can understand and change everything (inside the World). The core is simple. Easy prototyping. 
It's a place to learn. Nice community.

So this is my platform of choice to try things, prototype, create my tools.

The Plastic metaphor seems correct. But keep in mind we have to choose programming systems because they solve problems. 
- what kind(s) of problems Pharo will solve best ? 
- what kind(s) of users Pharo  want to have ?

It looks like Pharo has a real place on tablets (Hilaire proves it with DrGeo).

Now I'm not sure about "essence of agile". TDD in Pharo does not seem so popular - there's more and more tests, but feedback on testing practices is low.
I would like to see timeboxed iterations with goals for Pharo development process - that would be agile and provide a rhythm.

Laurent

 
After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:

Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.

       Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."

Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.

Stef

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
>
>
>
> After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
>
> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
> With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
>
> Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
>  
I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate
english slang associations that you might want to stay away from...
"General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic

Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose.
"able to undergo change of form without breaking"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile

There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile
is nicer to read)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable

cheers, -ben

> Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
>
> Stef
>
>  


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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Stéphane Ducasse

On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
>>
>>
>>
>> After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
>>
>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
>> Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
>>  
> I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from...
> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic


Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.

resilience may be better


>
> Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose.
> "able to undergo change of form without breaking"
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
>
> There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read)
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
>
> cheers, -ben
>
>> Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
>> Stef
>>
>>  
>
>


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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 20 Feb 2012, at 09:24, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

>
> On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>
>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>> I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
>>>
>>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
>>> Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
>>>
>> I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from...
>> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
>> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
>
>
> Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
>
> resilience may be better

There once was Resilient embedded Smalltalk by OOVM...

>>
>> Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose.
>> "able to undergo change of form without breaking"
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
>>
>> There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read)
>> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
>>
>> cheers, -ben
>>
>>> Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

ccrraaiigg
In reply to this post by Ben Coman

     "fluid"?


-C

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org/resume
+31   6 2757 7177
+ 1 415  287 3547



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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Guido Stepken
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticity

Am 20.02.2012 09:24 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" <[hidden email]>:

On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
>>
>>
>>
>> After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
>>
>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
>>      Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
>>
> I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from...
> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic


Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.

resilience may be better


>
> Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose.
> "able to undergo change of form without breaking"
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
>
> There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read)
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
>
> cheers, -ben
>
>> Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
>> Stef
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Fernando olivero-2
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
What about:  Pharo a MALEABLE  language to build evolvable and
debuggable applications.


Fernando

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Guido Stepken <[hidden email]> wrote:

> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticity
>
> Am 20.02.2012 09:24 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
> On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>
>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>> I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
>>>
>>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
>>>      Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
>>>
>> I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from...
>> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
>> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
>
>
> Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
>
> resilience may be better
>
>
>>
>> Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose.
>> "able to undergo change of form without breaking"
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
>>
>> There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read)
>> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
>>
>> cheers, -ben
>>
>>> Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Guido Stepken

"Male" in german means "stupid". Wrong assoziation.

"plasticity" is the correct word for easy deformable, neuronal structures in neuronal sciences, cybernetics.

regards, Guido Stepken

Am 20.02.2012 13:57 schrieb "Fernando Olivero" <[hidden email]>:
What about:  Pharo a MALEABLE  language to build evolvable and
debuggable applications.


Fernando

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Guido Stepken <[hidden email]> wrote:
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticity
>
> Am 20.02.2012 09:24 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
> On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>
>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>> I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
>>>
>>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
>>>      Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
>>>
>> I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from...
>> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
>> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
>
>
> Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
>
> resilience may be better
>
>
>>
>> Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose.
>> "able to undergo change of form without breaking"
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
>>
>> There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read)
>> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
>>
>> cheers, -ben
>>
>>> Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Schwab,Wilhelm K
In reply to this post by Fernando olivero-2
Hmmmm.  I was thinking about Pharo as a cross-platform Smalltalk, but that pretty much says the same thing :)  You are missing the cross-platform part though, or so it seems.   Also, Smalltalk's malleability does not rule out the use of number crunching and other libraries, which can be very nicely  adapted into the system, one might say, in a malleable way :)

Details aside, I like where you are going.


________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Fernando Olivero [[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo       marketing

What about:  Pharo a MALEABLE  language to build evolvable and
debuggable applications.


Fernando

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Guido Stepken <[hidden email]> wrote:

> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticity
>
> Am 20.02.2012 09:24 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
> On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>
>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>> I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
>>>
>>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processes…).  Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
>>>      Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
>>>
>> I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from...
>> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
>> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
>
>
> Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
>
> resilience may be better
>
>
>>
>> Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose.
>> "able to undergo change of form without breaking"
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
>>
>> There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read)
>> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
>>
>> cheers, -ben
>>
>>> Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Helene Bilbo
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.

>> Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."

> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic


Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.

resilience may be better
Even the connotation of plastic surgery is perfect: don't like the nose of your program? change it! "Plastic" is disputable. That's exactly what you want to be :)
Resilience on the other hand sounds a lot like "coping" and "hardiness". Very gray and motivated from the negative.
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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Igor Stasenko
2c.

just for the record: i can't choose. both words fit fine.
except that "malleable" is quite often applied to software. so if the
idea to emphasize uniqueness of pharo,
then i think better to use other word.
Anyways, don't put all bets on one horse. IMO no matter what key word
will be, if message contents is good :)

On 20 February 2012 20:01, Helene Bilbo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Stéphane Ducasse wrote
>>
>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>
>>>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
>>
>>>> Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent
>>>> deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of
>>>> force."
>>
>>> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
>>> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
>>
>>
>> Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
>>
>> resilience may be better
>>
>
> Even the connotation of plastic surgery is perfect: don't like the nose of
> your program? change it! "Plastic" is disputable. That's exactly what you
> want to be :)
> Resilience on the other hand sounds a lot like "coping" and "hardiness".
> Very gray and motivated from the negative.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-do-we-use-Pharo-a-k-a-rethinking-Pharo-marketing-tp4401788p4404810.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

S Krish
Yes,

Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious)

Adopt the Pharo motto:

"Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."

Implicit and obvious is the message: It is the special, perfect platform for user to succeed / win

6 month roadmaps then align with this goal . Highlight end of cycle, the special and complete framework, features, that is making it a winnable proposition for the end user.

If the end user wins, no matter what we say or do , it will hit big time. If the end users in larger numbers do not, no matter what we say or do it will remain an isolated island.

Apple is an aggressive example. Microsoft with windows, VB or even c# or visual studio is an example of hitting the bottom rung of users with all tooling to make them win, irrespective of the intellectual argument for or against lot of what it does.


Sudhakar krishnamachari

Extn 91-40403012
Cell 9902104814



On Feb 21, 2012, at 1:16 AM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2c.
>
> just for the record: i can't choose. both words fit fine.
> except that "malleable" is quite often applied to software. so if the
> idea to emphasize uniqueness of pharo,
> then i think better to use other word.
> Anyways, don't put all bets on one horse. IMO no matter what key word
> will be, if message contents is good :)
>
> On 20 February 2012 20:01, Helene Bilbo
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote
>>>
>>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
>>>
>>>>> Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent
>>>>> deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of
>>>>> force."
>>>
>>>> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person."
>>>> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
>>>
>>> resilience may be better
>>>
>>
>> Even the connotation of plastic surgery is perfect: don't like the nose of
>> your program? change it! "Plastic" is disputable. That's exactly what you
>> want to be :)
>> Resilience on the other hand sounds a lot like "coping" and "hardiness".
>> Very gray and motivated from the negative.
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-do-we-use-Pharo-a-k-a-rethinking-Pharo-marketing-tp4401788p4404810.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko.
>

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko

On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote:

> Yes,
>
> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious)
>
> Adopt the Pharo motto:
>
> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."


Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ??

        Marcus


--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de


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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Schwab,Wilhelm K
That does always seem to be the case.  But "boring" is our problem, assuming the thing works as advertised, others might bore themselves to success of which we can only dream - we should be careful about passing judgments.  Scalable is a needed element, and I am not at all convinced that many "enterprise" systems deliver on this point any more than we could (can?) w/ load balancing.

Inelegant is probably a key feature of most "enterprise" *code* that gets copy/pasted/tweaked vs. truly engineered for reuse.

How's that?

Bill


________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Marcus Denker [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:32 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo       marketing

On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote:

> Yes,
>
> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious)
>
> Adopt the Pharo motto:
>
> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."


Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ??

        Marcus


--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de



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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Guido Stepken
In reply to this post by S Krish


Am 21.02.2012 03:11 schrieb "Krishsmalltalk" <[hidden email]>:
>
> Yes,
>
> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious)
>
> Adopt the Pharo motto:
>
> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."
>
> Implicit and obvious is the message: It is the special, perfect platform for user to succeed / win
>
> 6 month roadmaps then align with this goal . Highlight end of cycle, the special and complete framework, features, that is making it a winnable proposition for the end user.
>
> If the end user wins, no matter what we say or do , it will hit big time. If the end users in larger numbers do not, no matter what we say or do it will remain an isolated island.

Smalltalk in common, expecially Pharo *is* an isolated island. No touch, no future!

> Apple is an aggressive example. Microsoft with windows, VB or even c# or visual studio is an example of hitting the bottom rung of users with all tooling to make them win, irrespective of the intellectual argument for or against lot of what it does.

You forgot Android 4.0 as *the* winning platform on mobiles, in cars (Mercedes, Ford, Nissan have Android built in now!) and TV (all upper class Samsung TV have Android already).

Over 700.000 new installations every month!!!

Pharo - rather more deinstallations, i fear!

See reality!

Have fun, Guido Stepken

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
Marcus Denker wrote:

> On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote:
>
>  
>> Yes,
>>
>> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious)
>>
>> Adopt the Pharo motto:
>>
>> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."
>>    
>
>
> Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ??
>
> Marcus
>
>
> --
> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
>
>
>
>  
Boring ==> other people don't want to do it ==> that is where the money
is.  If Smalltalk can be less boring than other platforms, then you are
a ahead.
Complicated ==> other people can't do it ==> that is where the money
is.  If Smalltalk can do complicated a bit easier than other platforms,
then you are ahead.
Fun is what you do for free.

Its not really as bad as this - but it is the essence of the spectrum.

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Guido Stepken

Am 21.02.2012 09:31 schrieb "Ben Coman" <[hidden email]>:

> Boring ==> other people don't want to do it ==> that is where the money is.  If Smalltalk can be less boring than other platforms, then you are a ahead.
> Complicated ==> other people can't do it ==> that is where the money is.  If Smalltalk can do complicated a bit easier than other platforms, then you are ahead.
> Fun is what you do for free.
>
> Its not really as bad as this - but it is the essence of the spectrum.

Not quite. There is nothing, that i can't do with Android (from navigation to full featured Desktop/Tablet apps with very matured RAD tools), but plenty of things, i can't do with Smalltalk/Pharo. Missing standards, touch libs....a concept ...
If these topics are not adressed, even the most successful "customer" will soon have to change to JavaScript or Java, Objective-C, C++ ... Touch is everywhere soon, now.

regards, Guido Stepken

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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

NorbertHartl
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4


Am 21.02.2012 um 08:32 schrieb Marcus Denker <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote:
>
>> Yes,
>>
>> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious)
>>
>> Adopt the Pharo motto:
>>
>> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."
>
>
> Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ??
>
No, that's what java made out of it.

Norbert
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Re: Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

Göran Krampe
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
On 02/21/2012 08:32 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:

>
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote:
>
>> Yes,
>>
>> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious)
>>
>> Adopt the Pharo motto:
>>
>> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."
>
>
> Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ??

I agree, I don't think the people we would want to attract really
appreciate those attributes.

Sorry for longish post - but let me ramble on this (though I am not sure
how this thread has evolved - Stephane initially asked for input):

Pharo (or Smalltalk in general) is for me about *speed* of development.

Yes, one can make a huge list of other attributes - but it all boils
down to that *for me*. For example, one could say "no, it is also about
quality of code through good OO design" - but if you think about it,
quality of design gives *speed*. The quality in itself doesn't give me
"value" (well, I am being black-and-white here), but the speed that a
good quality codebase gives me (in adapting to change etc) is true hard
value. That speed makes programming fun. That speed impresses people.
That speed is a true distinguishing feature.

And of course, the speed comes as a product of many factors of which
some are unique (but not all of them are):

language-brevity * language-modeling-capability * tools * dynamic-typing
* instant-compilation * app-always-running = awesome speed!

...and if we break out tools from the above equation:

tools = full-reflection *  written-all-in-itself *
everyone-can-contribute-no-need-for-plugin-system-like-eclipse *
crossplatform-so-everyone-can-contribute-regardless-of-OS


So if I would "pitch" Pharo to other developers, it would be about the
extravagant speed of development. Sure, cross platform and good
performance through Cog is nice, but for me and many other web devs
(which perhaps contitutes 90% of the audience) it would be Linux anyway
and the VM speed is not a real problem. But as I said, cross-platform is
important for us to be able to work together on "common ground"
improving the environment.

Just some food for thought.

regards, Göran

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