Why not JRuby?

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Why not JRuby?

mcandre
I think Ruby is a fantastic modern Smalltalk, and JRuby is a reasonably mature way to interact with the JVM; Ruby on Rails works in JRuby, and you can deploy Android apps via Ruboto. Why would someone choose Redline Smalltalk over Ruby? If we're talking about market saturation, Ruby has plenty!

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Re: Why not JRuby?

Alfonso Guerra


On Jun 14, 2013 6:52 PM, "Andrew Pennebaker" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think Ruby is a fantastic modern Smalltalk,

Ruby isn't Smalltalk. I could believe it's Java. I could believe it's C++. But it's impossible to ever believe Ruby is Smalltalk.

> Why would someone choose Redline Smalltalk over Ruby?

Stick with Ruby. You don't have to worry about it.

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Re: Why not JRuby?

James Ladd
In reply to this post by mcandre
Hi Andrew,

Thank you for posting.

Ruby/Jruby is a fantastic language - I use it a lot.

Artists choose a medium that suits their creativity and expressiveness. Some use pencil, water colour, oils,
chalk, stone, wood, ink etc.

Smalltalk is my choice as it lets me express my ideas clearly and simply and provides the tools 
to help me focus on that expression, rather than say chipping away at the stone block before the 
statue can even start to come out.

Please try Smalltalk if you have not already, and I think you could find it simple, pure and highly productive.

- James.


On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Andrew Pennebaker <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think Ruby is a fantastic modern Smalltalk, and JRuby is a reasonably mature way to interact with the JVM; Ruby on Rails works in JRuby, and you can deploy Android apps via Ruboto. Why would someone choose Redline Smalltalk over Ruby? If we're talking about market saturation, Ruby has plenty!

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Re: Why not JRuby?

R. Tyler Croy
In reply to this post by mcandre

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:

> I think Ruby is a fantastic modern Smalltalk, and JRuby is a reasonably
> mature way to interact with the JVM; Ruby on Rails works in JRuby, and you
> can deploy Android apps via Ruboto. Why would someone choose Redline
> Smalltalk over Ruby? If we're talking about market saturation, Ruby has
> plenty!


As an employed Ruby developer, I have a love/hate relationship with Ruby. A lot
more Perl than I'm happy with crept into Ruby in the early days, there's some
other garbage running around in t here which I think qualifies it as "Smalltalk
inspired" but not "truly" Smalltalk.

What's compelling about JRuby in a world where Redline exists is that if my
company ships our products on JRuby, we have a common VM with Redline, the JVM.

This has the potential to give developers the freedom to use what langauge they
feel they can solve the problem with the best, and still "boil down to" the JVM
where they can integrate with other teams' components.

Personally I think Ruby is a /good/ language, but Smalltalk is a /great/ one,
which is what makes the Redline effort valuable to me.


FWIW :)


Cheers
- R. Tyler Croy
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    Code: https://github.com/rtyler
 Chatter: https://twitter.com/agentdero

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Re: Why not JRuby?

Stuart Herring-3
In reply to this post by mcandre
Because Ruby isn't Smalltalk.
Maybe for some people, the things they like about Smalltalk are things
that Ruby has, but for me the minimal and highly consistent syntax is
the biggest distinguishing feature of Smalltalk when compared to other
dynamic OO languages.
The syntax of Ruby is pretty much the opposite of minimal (> 40
reserved words, vs 6), and definitely not consistent.

That and I prefer camel-case over underscores, so Smalltalk and Java
are a perfect match ;)

On 15 June 2013 06:26, Andrew Pennebaker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think Ruby is a fantastic modern Smalltalk, and JRuby is a reasonably
> mature way to interact with the JVM; Ruby on Rails works in JRuby, and you
> can deploy Android apps via Ruboto. Why would someone choose Redline
> Smalltalk over Ruby? If we're talking about market saturation, Ruby has
> plenty!
>
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> "Redline Smalltalk" group.
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Re: Why not JRuby?

Scott Smith
        "The syntax of Ruby is pretty much the opposite of minimal (> 40
        reserved words, vs 6), and definitely not consistent."

I have to agree here.  If you look over at Amber (Smalltalk over Javascript), they have amazing IDE capabilities already going whereas Ruby is trying to catch up.  The IDE's for Smalltalk have always been amazing because the language is the easiest dynamic language to write a complete IDE for.  Rubyists are so jaded by IDE's that they prefer power editors like VI, emacs, or Sublime to IDE's.  That's just sad. I use RubyMine (as well as VI and emacs), but I certainly miss how clean and powerful the old Smalltalk IDE's were.

My own experience is that I've been programming in Ruby for about 6 years and I used to program in Smalltalk for about 9.  The advantages of either is a two-edged sword.

I like Ruby a lot, and I also miss Smalltalk.


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Stuart Herring <[hidden email]> wrote:
Because Ruby isn't Smalltalk.
Maybe for some people, the things they like about Smalltalk are things
that Ruby has, but for me the minimal and highly consistent syntax is
the biggest distinguishing feature of Smalltalk when compared to other
dynamic OO languages.
The syntax of Ruby is pretty much the opposite of minimal (> 40
reserved words, vs 6), and definitely not consistent.

That and I prefer camel-case over underscores, so Smalltalk and Java
are a perfect match ;)

On 15 June 2013 06:26, Andrew Pennebaker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think Ruby is a fantastic modern Smalltalk, and JRuby is a reasonably
> mature way to interact with the JVM; Ruby on Rails works in JRuby, and you
> can deploy Android apps via Ruboto. Why would someone choose Redline
> Smalltalk over Ruby? If we're talking about market saturation, Ruby has
> plenty!
>
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>

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Re: Why not JRuby?

Jeff Heon
I just installed Amber locally. 

It's a terribly nice getting started story:
1) Install Node.js, which itself comes with binary installer for various platforms.
2) Unzip/tar -xvf  Amber.
3) Starts the server with Node.js.

If I may critique one thing though, and AFAIK it's just replicating the behavior of other Smalltalk IDEs, is the way commands like "print it" gets their result intermingled with the source code in the workspace tab.

I prefer REPL-like behavior where input and output is separated. I think the Clojure Eclipse plugin really shines there.

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to Smalltalks IDEs though, so I might just be not using it idiomatically. Plus it's also a matter of preferences.

On Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:34:28 PM UTC-4, oldfartdeveloper wrote:
I have to agree here.  If you look over at Amber (Smalltalk over Javascript), they have amazing IDE capabilities already going whereas Ruby is trying to catch up. 

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Re: Why not JRuby?

Jonathan Smith
I noticed the other day that Amber does come with a command line REPL: bin/amber. After you get used to it, the "printIt" command is also not too much of a bother as the output is highlighted and can be removed by hitting the delete key.

On Monday, June 17, 2013 4:14:03 PM UTC-4, Jeff Heon wrote:
I just installed Amber locally. 

It's a terribly nice getting started story:
1) Install Node.js, which itself comes with binary installer for various platforms.
2) Unzip/tar -xvf  Amber.
3) Starts the server with Node.js.

If I may critique one thing though, and AFAIK it's just replicating the behavior of other Smalltalk IDEs, is the way commands like "print it" gets their result intermingled with the source code in the workspace tab.

I prefer REPL-like behavior where input and output is separated. I think the Clojure Eclipse plugin really shines there.

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to Smalltalks IDEs though, so I might just be not using it idiomatically. Plus it's also a matter of preferences.

On Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:34:28 PM UTC-4, oldfartdeveloper wrote:
I have to agree here.  If you look over at Amber (Smalltalk over Javascript), they have amazing IDE capabilities already going whereas Ruby is trying to catch up. 

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Re: Why not JRuby?

Bob Jarvis-2
In reply to this post by mcandre
Without intending to sound either smartarsed or depressed - honestly, if those of us who love Smalltalk were worried about market penetration we wouldn't be Smalltalkers!  Honestly, I tried to like Ruby - I really did.  I installed it, messed with it, tried to get something working with it (just a simple Notepad clone - that's not too much to ask, is it?)...and the Smalltalk icon (Dolphin, thanks) kept staring at me.  It was *watching me*, I tell you!  I could hear what it was thinking...  "Oh - so there's a NEW language in town, is there?  Well, you just go have your fun - I'll be here when you get over it".  I kept working with Ruby...and working with it...I tried it with Eclipse, but it just wasn't...NO!  NO!  I will NOT dwell on the delightful, delicious, de-LOVERLY Smalltalk IDE I'd grown accustomed to!  I will *NOT* yearn for a browser!  I will use this g*d**n stupid-*ssed piece of wannabee IDE cr*p AND I WILL LIKE IT!  I WILL MASTER IT!  I WILL **NOT** CLICK THE ICON!!!  I WILL...I WILL...WILL...  Ah, to h*ck with it.  Still there, are you, old friend?  Ahhhhh....that's more like it...  :-)

You like Ruby?  Great. Stick with it. Me, I program in other languages when I'm working. I'm a dab hand with C and C++, can kick butt with PL/SQL (oh, the things we do for money), and can manage some Java and Delphi (remember that one?) when it's required. But in my lonely little cubicle, hung so no one but me can see it, hangs a sign.  It says:

                  A bad day with [ ]
             beats a good day with { }

Smalltalk rules.  "Which is syntactically correct :-)"


On Friday, June 14, 2013 4:26:13 PM UTC-4, Andrew Pennebaker wrote:
I think Ruby is a fantastic modern Smalltalk, and JRuby is a reasonably mature way to interact with the JVM; Ruby on Rails works in JRuby, and you can deploy Android apps via Ruboto. Why would someone choose Redline Smalltalk over Ruby? If we're talking about market saturation, Ruby has plenty!

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