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Dear all,
It is a time to prepare the Wikipedia Aida entry too. It will be nice if someone else that me start writing it, because I'm just too biased and Wikipedians are very sensible to the neutrality of the article. Also so called notability is important, so we need to take care about adding good references to the article. Any takers? Janko -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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Nicholas Janko Mivšek wrote: Dear all, It is a time to prepare the Wikipedia Aida entry too. It will be nice if someone else that me start writing it, because I'm just too biased and Wikipedians are very sensible to the neutrality of the article. Also so called notability is important, so we need to take care about adding good references to the article. Any takers? Janko --
Nicholas
J Moore _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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Nicholas,
I would be happy to assist in a collaborative fashion. I am not doing very well contributing to Aida documentation on my own; I seem to be limited by my own understanding and I have not developed a good method yet. I seem to constantly end up right back at "we need a really good comprehensive example." Then I start something, get sidetracked, and so on... Anyway, I have had to focus on some other projects at work and have had some unexpected family medical issues, but I am close to getting back to some more serious "Aida Time"... Rob
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Nicholas Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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What would life be without sidetracks? just a boring old highway!! Anyway, collaboration is good! I have in mind to draft something out in a Wiki style and submit it to the community for review, then, subject to feedback, create a Wiki entry for Aida. I have created a couple of Wiki entries before, so hopefully can avoid some of the more common problems. Nicholas Rob Rothwell wrote: Nicholas, --
Nicholas
J Moore _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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Nicholas Moore wrote:
> Rob, > > What would life be without sidetracks? just a boring old highway!! > > Anyway, collaboration is good! I have in mind to draft something out in > a Wiki style and submit it to the community for review, then, subject to > feedback, create a Wiki entry for Aida. I have created a couple of Wiki > entries before, so hopefully can avoid some of the more common problems. You mean right Wikipedia entries? This is very valuable experience so I'll be glad if you start with the proposal. And Rob, you too. Once upon a time I contributed some effort to add Sport entry by Bruce Badger to Wikipedia, unfortunately unsuccessfully, so I know approximately which errors we need to avoid. We can also invite the Sport's reviewer to help us prepare our article so that it will be acceptable by Wikipedians. Janko > > Nicholas > > Rob Rothwell wrote: >> Nicholas, >> >> I would be happy to assist in a collaborative fashion. >> >> I am not doing very well contributing to Aida documentation on my own; >> I seem to be limited by my own understanding and I have not developed >> a good method yet. I seem to constantly end up right back at "we need >> a really good comprehensive example." Then I start something, get >> sidetracked, and so on... >> >> Anyway, I have had to focus on some other projects at work and have >> had some unexpected family medical issues, but I am close to getting >> back to some more serious "Aida Time"... >> >> Rob >> >> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Nicholas Moore >> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >> >> Good idea. I will look at it this weekend and see what I can come >> up with. >> >> Nicholas >> >> Janko Mivšek wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> It is a time to prepare the Wikipedia Aida entry too. It will be nice if >>> someone else that me start writing it, because I'm just too biased and >>> Wikipedians are very sensible to the neutrality of the article. Also so >>> called notability is important, so we need to take care about adding >>> good references to the article. >>> >>> Any takers? >>> >>> Janko >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> *Nicholas J Moore* >> +33 555 092 140 >> +33 682 904 357 >> *TSR International >> *Thought Leaders in Communication & Complexity >> www.TSR-i.com <http://www.TSR-i.com> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aida mailing list >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> >> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aida mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida >> > > -- > > *Nicholas J Moore* > +33 555 092 140 > +33 682 904 357 > *TSR International > *Thought Leaders in Communication & Complexity > www.TSR-i.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aida mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek
I have created a skeleton page for AIDA/Web on Wikipedia. It is a sub-page on my
own user page and so not yet published, It can be found here: AIDA/Web.
It is only a skeleton as yet, but it can be our sandbox.
FYI ... Each registered user on Wikipedia can (subject to certain restrictions) create their own sub-pages which may act as a draft for a future article (as in this case). That means that anyone can go in and edit the page. You will see that I have created a typical short introductory paragraph and then have put in some suggested headings which we can expand between us. Wikipedia entries should be notable, contain verifiable statements and include references. The more internal (Wiki) links the better. For example there are five internal links and an external reference in my first paragraph. Opinions ("AIDA is the greatest!") are discouraged but descriptions ("The growing popularity of AIDA/Web is demonstrated by the creation of English, French and Spanish tutorials and the 300% increase in web site visits over the past year") are okay. The entry does not need to be huge, we can add to it later. Relevant examples are: Eclipse Seaside Please feel free to contribute. If you are not familiar with Wiki rules and style you can either just write whatever you want (anonymously if you do not have an account) and I (or someone) will edit/comment as necessary, or you can send the text to me first and I will submit it. Do not be disheartened if we get adverse editorial or 'Wikify' comments from the Wikipedia editors, they are just doing their job and their points are usually valid (but not insurmountable). When the page has shaped up a bit I will publish it as a normal Wiki entry. Regards Nicholas --
Nicholas
J Moore _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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Nicholas,
Thank you very much for the first step and all advices about what to take care about writing this article. Now others are welcome to continue. I'll still stay back for now sot hat we will come out with as much neutral view to Aida as possible. Janko Nicholas Moore wrote: > I have created a skeleton page for AIDA/Web on Wikipedia. It is a > sub-page on my own user page and so not yet published, It can be found > here: AIDA/Web > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:NicholasJMoore/AIDA/Web>. It is only > a skeleton as yet, but it can be our sandbox. > > FYI ... Each registered user on Wikipedia can (subject to certain > restrictions) create their own sub-pages which may act as a draft for a > future article (as in this case). That means that anyone can go in and > edit the page. You will see that I have created a typical short > introductory paragraph and then have put in some suggested headings > which we can expand between us. > > Wikipedia entries should be notable, contain verifiable statements and > include references. The more internal (Wiki) links the better. For > example there are five internal links and an external reference in my > first paragraph. Opinions ("AIDA is the greatest!") are discouraged but > descriptions ("The growing popularity of AIDA/Web is demonstrated by the > creation of English, French and Spanish tutorials and the 300% increase > in web site visits over the past year") are okay. The entry does not > need to be huge, we can add to it later. > > Relevant examples are: > > Eclipse <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_%28software%29> > > Seaside <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaside_software> > > Please feel free to contribute. If you are not familiar with Wiki rules > and style you can either just write whatever you want (anonymously if > you do not have an account) and I (or someone) will edit/comment as > necessary, or you can send the text to me first and I will submit it. Do > not be disheartened if we get adverse editorial or 'Wikify' comments > from the Wikipedia editors, they are just doing their job and their > points are usually valid (but not insurmountable). > > When the page has shaped up a bit I will publish it as a normal Wiki entry. > > Regards > > Nicholas > > > -- > > *Nicholas J Moore > Limoges* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aida mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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It would be good if you can let me have a timeline (history) of Aida, which I will write from a third party perspective. Aida is ten years old now? Has it always been open source, did it emerge from something else? It is quite proper to identify founders of a particular activity and you deserve credit for that, our community would not have come into being without your pioneering work. Reading through our emails it seems to me that there is an underlying philosophy associated with Aida which would be good to capture (as they have done with Seaside). What do you think? Does anybody care to articulate it? For my part I will reflect on it and also try to come up with a form of words. Nicholas Janko Mivšek wrote: Nicholas, Thank you very much for the first step and all advices about what to take care about writing this article. Now others are welcome to continue. I'll still stay back for now sot hat we will come out with as much neutral view to Aida as possible. Janko Nicholas Moore wrote:I have created a skeleton page for AIDA/Web on Wikipedia. It is a sub-page on my own user page and so not yet published, It can be found here: AIDA/Web <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:NicholasJMoore/AIDA/Web>. It is only a skeleton as yet, but it can be our sandbox. FYI ... Each registered user on Wikipedia can (subject to certain restrictions) create their own sub-pages which may act as a draft for a future article (as in this case). That means that anyone can go in and edit the page. You will see that I have created a typical short introductory paragraph and then have put in some suggested headings which we can expand between us. Wikipedia entries should be notable, contain verifiable statements and include references. The more internal (Wiki) links the better. For example there are five internal links and an external reference in my first paragraph. Opinions ("AIDA is the greatest!") are discouraged but descriptions ("The growing popularity of AIDA/Web is demonstrated by the creation of English, French and Spanish tutorials and the 300% increase in web site visits over the past year") are okay. The entry does not need to be huge, we can add to it later. Relevant examples are: Eclipse <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_%28software%29> Seaside <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaside_software> Please feel free to contribute. If you are not familiar with Wiki rules and style you can either just write whatever you want (anonymously if you do not have an account) and I (or someone) will edit/comment as necessary, or you can send the text to me first and I will submit it. Do not be disheartened if we get adverse editorial or 'Wikify' comments from the Wikipedia editors, they are just doing their job and their points are usually valid (but not insurmountable). When the page has shaped up a bit I will publish it as a normal Wiki entry. Regards Nicholas -- *Nicholas J Moore Limoges* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
_______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
Re: AIDA/Web on Wikipedia - history and philosophy
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Nicholas Moore wrote:
> It would be good if you can let me have a timeline (history) of Aida, > which I will write from a third party perspective. Aida is ten years old > now? Has it always been open source, did it emerge from something else? > It is quite proper to identify founders of a particular activity and you > deserve credit for that, our community would not have come into being > without your pioneering work. Nice to hear that :) Let me write a brief history for start: 1996, (12 years) Aida was my first Smalltalk app at all (you can still feel my that time inexperience in certain parts of Aida :) Developed for a concrete project: an on-line bookstore of major Slovenian publisher. Influences: hmm, at that time there were hardly any web frameworks at all. Mostly just CGI scripts. Almost at the same time ParcPlace (now Cincom) delivered VisualWave, but this one was too GUI centric web framework Influence was low if any. 1998 Gas Billing System for our national gas company developed in just 3 months, billing all natural gas in Slovenia, this web application had recently a 10 year anniversary. 2000 open-sourced. Aida's web server part was a base for merging with other Smalltalk web servers (notably Hydrogen from Ken Treis) and Swazoo was born, on first Camp Smalltalk in San Diego. See Swazoo history: http://www.swazoo.org/history.html 2001 e-logis, a web based system for management of logistic processes was born, by me doing basic development and deployment to two customers then raising a development team and handing them further development and maintenance. e-logis is now actually most successful Aida based application, in production in 10+ companies. 2003 BiArt/ISO Quality management system, based on core document management functionally which are we now open-sourcing to core of the Scribo CMS. 2005 BiArt/BPM web based Business Process Management framework for executing busines processes according to standard BPMN. 2007 Aida community was born, starting with website, mailing list etc. 2008 Aida/Scribo CMS framework History of contributors: Until we start building our community there was me doing most basic Aida development, but there are developers using Aida in the partner company Oria Computers, starting back in 2000 and currently 10 Aida developers working on e-logis logistical system. Their wishes and suggestions, not to mention financial support influenced quite a lot Aida. > Reading through our emails it seems to me that there is an underlying > philosophy associated with Aida which would be good to capture (as they > have done with Seaside). What do you think? Does anybody care to > articulate it? For my part I will reflect on it and also try to come up > with a form of words. My initial thinking: extending object philosophy to the Web. Merging object and web philosophy. Every object should have its Url (that is also an idea by Alan Kay, just one year later), object model is kind of "web" of objects, therefore very similar to web of webpages. It would therefore be natural to extend object mode to the web too (a lot of similarity). Important at that time already: Web apps are not like GUI apps, philosophy of web apps is much different from GUI ones. It is a big mistake to make web apps like GUI ones. This mistake is even today still present. My web background: While studying, then working on Department of Computer Science on Jozef Stefan Institute (http://www.ijs.si), I developed a network protocol for an industrial network (well, this one is also still in use :) Consequently I was exposed to the Internet very early, at the end of 80s. I remember well the Gopher, the predecessor of WWW, and what were my first feelings when first WWW pages came out, at that time browsable from VT100 terminals. But it took few years until 1996 to get an opportunity to build my own such web server, but not only static web server, much more: a dynamic one. A that time a CGI was a common way of doing such apps. You can imagine what a progress was Aida at that time. That much for now. Please continue with your very well targeted questions, which help directing the line of thinking perfectly! Janko > > Nicholas > > Janko Mivšek wrote: >> Nicholas, >> >> Thank you very much for the first step and all advices about what to >> take care about writing this article. Now others are welcome to >> continue. I'll still stay back for now sot hat we will come out with as >> much neutral view to Aida as possible. >> >> Janko >> >> Nicholas Moore wrote: >> >>> I have created a skeleton page for AIDA/Web on Wikipedia. It is a >>> sub-page on my own user page and so not yet published, It can be found >>> here: AIDA/Web >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:NicholasJMoore/AIDA/Web>. It is only >>> a skeleton as yet, but it can be our sandbox. >>> >>> FYI ... Each registered user on Wikipedia can (subject to certain >>> restrictions) create their own sub-pages which may act as a draft for a >>> future article (as in this case). That means that anyone can go in and >>> edit the page. You will see that I have created a typical short >>> introductory paragraph and then have put in some suggested headings >>> which we can expand between us. >>> >>> Wikipedia entries should be notable, contain verifiable statements and >>> include references. The more internal (Wiki) links the better. For >>> example there are five internal links and an external reference in my >>> first paragraph. Opinions ("AIDA is the greatest!") are discouraged but >>> descriptions ("The growing popularity of AIDA/Web is demonstrated by the >>> creation of English, French and Spanish tutorials and the 300% increase >>> in web site visits over the past year") are okay. The entry does not >>> need to be huge, we can add to it later. >>> >>> Relevant examples are: >>> >>> Eclipse <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_%28software%29> >>> >>> Seaside <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaside_software> >>> >>> Please feel free to contribute. If you are not familiar with Wiki rules >>> and style you can either just write whatever you want (anonymously if >>> you do not have an account) and I (or someone) will edit/comment as >>> necessary, or you can send the text to me first and I will submit it. Do >>> not be disheartened if we get adverse editorial or 'Wikify' comments >>> from the Wikipedia editors, they are just doing their job and their >>> points are usually valid (but not insurmountable). >>> >>> When the page has shaped up a bit I will publish it as a normal Wiki entry. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Nicholas >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Nicholas J Moore >>> Limoges* >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aida mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida >>> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aida mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
Re: AIDA/Web on Wikipedia - history and philosophy
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I have created a Wikipedia entry for us (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDA/Web). Please check it out and contribute as appropriate, either by editing the page directly or by sending me comments, as you prefer. In particular, I think that the 'Architecture' section needs strengthening so would welcome any additions there. Regards Nicholas --
Nicholas
J Moore _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
Re: AIDA/Web on Wikipedia - history and philosophy
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Excellent news! Thank you :)
Nico > Hi, > > I have created a Wikipedia entry for us > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDA/Web). Please check it out and > contribute as appropriate, either by editing the page directly or by > sending me comments, as you prefer. > > In particular, I think that the 'Architecture' section needs > strengthening so would welcome any additions there. > > Regards > > Nicholas > -- > > > Nicholas J Moore > Limoges > France _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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Re: AIDA/Web on Wikipedia - history and philosophy
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In reply to this post by Nicholas Moore
I also added Aida to the following Wikipedia pages:
Aida (disambiguation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aida_(disambiguation) Web application framework http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application_framework List of web application frameworks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_application_frameworks At the right moment we also need to add it to: Comparison of web application frameworks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks Is there any other Wikipedia article to add Aida link on it? Best regards Janko Nicholas Moore wrote: > Hi, > > I have created a Wikipedia entry for us > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDA/Web). Please check it out and > contribute as appropriate, either by editing the page directly or by > sending me comments, as you prefer. > > In particular, I think that the 'Architecture' section needs > strengthening so would welcome any additions there. > > Regards > > Nicholas > -- > > *Nicholas J Moore > Limoges > France* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aida mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
Re: AIDA/Web on Wikipedia - history and philosophy
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In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek
Janko Mivšek schrieb:
> Nice to hear that :) Let me write a brief history for start To my understanding, AIDA/Web has a long history, being hidden and the base for many successful projects. I am curious to know if you observed changes by "going public" or, so to say, "open source"? Did it change your every day business? Did it change your every days work? (I just discovered AIDA reviving my Smalltalk/Web interest, so I am reading through the most interesting subjects on the gmane-archived lists). _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
Re: AIDA/Web on Wikipedia - history and philosophy
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Hi Markus,
Markus Fritsche wrote: > To my understanding, AIDA/Web has a long history, being hidden and the > base for many successful projects. > > I am curious to know if you observed changes by "going public" or, so to > say, "open source"? Not really until I start building the Aida community. Aida was open sourced already in 2000 but it was February 2007 when I started with a website, mailing list and active support of growing community that Aida actually take off. > Did it change your every day business? Did it change your every days work? Yes. At the start by spending quite some time supporting the community, "evangelizing" and promotion. But now a payback is already coming back. Aida/Scribo for instance is now actively developing by Nico and quite some of his work is already useful in my commercial apps too. Not to mention that we are cleaning and improving Aida all the time because of more and more usage. Another big achievement is that we are already have kind of commercial network of Aida professionals which can be hired or put together for a "virtual" project. We are just in talk for a first such a project actually :) > (I just discovered AIDA reviving my Smalltalk/Web interest, so I am > reading through the most interesting subjects on the gmane-archived lists). Welcome then to our community and don't hesitate to ask for any help! Janko -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida |
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