With 6 available soon...

Here's something to look at:

http://web.archive.org/web/19961107054618/www.intuitive.co.uk/dolphin/dolphin.htm

:)

Sean Malloy wrote:
> Here's something to look at:
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/19961107054618/www.intuitive.co.uk/dolphin/dolphin.htm

Looking at the images it seems the Dolphin UI hasn't really progressed
much at all.

http://web.archive.org/web/19961107062732/www.intuitive.co.uk/dolphin/Tour/Chap2.htm#Transcript

Of course, I'm sure there is alot different, or alot that doesn't really
need changing.  But in 8 years I kinda thought there might have been
some uber changes.

Mark,

> Sean Malloy wrote:
>
>> Here's something to look at:
>>
>> http://web.archive.org/web/19961107054618/www.intuitive.co.uk/dolphin/dolphin.htm 

Nice!!!


> Looking at the images it seems the Dolphin UI hasn't really progressed
> much at all.
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/19961107062732/www.intuitive.co.uk/dolphin/Tour/Chap2.htm#Transcript 
>
>
> Of course, I'm sure there is alot different, or alot that doesn't really
> need changing.  But in 8 years I kinda thought there might have been
> some uber changes.

I'd say the RB integration alone [*] is fairly uber.  The debugger has
improved too, even w/o considering the RB.  The system browser is new,
and the ability to unpin panes (and associated pains<g>) will be most
welcome, as will idea spaces.  IDE extensions are another nice addition.

One might also turn it around by observing that Dolphin had such a good
UI to start that it didn't need to change all that much to accomodate
the above.

That's not to say that there is not more to do.  Perhaps we could bang
out a wish list for D6.x or 7.  Andy, would you like such feedback, and
if so, do you want it here or on the public group?

Have a good one,

Bill



[*] just because I don't tolerate it tossing my comments all over
doesn't mean I don't use and appreciate it.  The up/down refactorings
and others that do not rewrite code are very valuable to me, as are all
features for new code that has not had time to build up comments that I
consider too valuable to be altered.


--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

"Bill Schwab" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> That's not to say that there is not more to do.  Perhaps we could bang
> out a wish list for D6.x or 7.  Andy, would you like such feedback, and
> if so, do you want it here or on the public group?

I guess if I were in Andy or Blair shoes, I would now be in "getting the
damn thing out of the door" mode,. with at least a few good things allready
almost implemented but thrown away from release, just because there is not
enought time to test and debug it properly, and my universal answer would be
"no, not in this version".

But as A&B have allready been able to suprise us so many times, we might
squizee one request ot two if they are really great improvments and at the
same time simple to implement :)

rush
--
http://www.templatetamer.com/
http://www.folderscavenger.com/

> Of course, I'm sure there is alot different, or alot that doesn't really
> need changing.  But in 8 years I kinda thought there might have been some
> uber changes.

Well, I wasn't really looking at a UI point of view. Fromw hat I can tell a
_lot_ has changed since then. The VM, Views, The Class Heirarchy... I think
the only real constant has been the GUI given the fact that it is a Windows
Environment.

I was actually more amazed that the snapshot was of the site from 1996.
Which means that Andy and Blair have been working on this for close to 9
years, which amazed me.

A fair number of people have been using Dolphin that whole time, but what
impressed me, is the fact that the OA guys have been doing this cose to 9
years, and are still doing it.

If only half the vendors around had that much commitment to a product!

Sean,

Wow that link is a great find. Thanks.

I took a look for the "Crew" page that had photos of the team involved
in creating the original Dolphin. I found the page at:

http://web.archive.org/web/19970626180043/www.intuitive.co.uk/dolphin/Cr
ew.htm

Unfortunately, the JPEGs don't appear to have been archived. I remember
that the only response we got to the page was that one of our early
users said we had "Great Hair". Perhaps it is a blessing that the
photos have disappeared.

> > Of course, I'm sure there is alot different, or alot that doesn't
> > really need changing.  But in 8 years I kinda thought there might
> > have been some uber changes.

Well I think that there have been a *lot* of changes but not so much in
the layout of the browsers. After all the basic Smalltalk 4-pane class
browser has been about since the late 1970's. As "new kids on the
block" we weren't about to change something so fundamentally
recognisable as Smalltalk.

> Well, I wasn't really looking at a UI point of view. Fromw hat I can
> tell a lot has changed since then. The VM, Views, The Class
> Heirarchy... I think the only real constant has been the GUI given
> the fact that it is a Windows Environment.
>
> I was actually more amazed that the snapshot was of the site from
> 1996.  Which means that Andy and Blair have been working on this for
> close to 9 years, which amazed me.

Well of course, if you look here:

http://www.object-arts.co.uk/wiki/html/Dolphin/BitsOfHistory.htm

you'll see that Dolphin is, in fact, just over 10 years old (although
Object Arts was founded in 1997 to take over Dolphin when Intuitive
dropped it). Here's the background timeline that, towards the end,
might explain why OA started up.

http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/misc/bitsofhistory.pdf

The presentation is actually from early 1997.

Best regards

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

> Unfortunately, the JPEGs don't appear to have been archived. I remember
> that the only response we got to the page was that one of our early
> users said we had "Great Hair". Perhaps it is a blessing that the
> photos have disappeared.

Well, aside from the great hair, my wife says you have a sexy voice!

I made her watch the IdeaSpace video, and while she had no idea wtf it was
about, she commented that "That guys voice is dead sexy". Go Andy!

Andy Bower escribió:
> Wow that link is a great find. Thanks.
Yes... and also helped me to find lost sites, owned by myself years
ago!!! Kind of "Jurrasic Web". :-)

> I took a look for the "Crew" page that had photos of the team involved
> in creating the original Dolphin. I found the page at:
> <http://web.archive.org/web/19970626180043/www.intuitive.co.uk/dolphin/Crew.htm>

> Unfortunately, the JPEGs don't appear to have been archived. I remember
> that the only response we got to the page was that one of our early
> users said we had "Great Hair". Perhaps it is a blessing that the
> photos have disappeared.

Haha... "burn that photos!!!" (sic)

>>>Of course, I'm sure there is alot different, or alot that doesn't
>>>really need changing.  But in 8 years I kinda thought there might
>>>have been some uber changes.

> Well I think that there have been a *lot* of changes but not so much in
> the layout of the browsers. After all the basic Smalltalk 4-pane class
> browser has been about since the late 1970's. As "new kids on the
> block" we weren't about to change something so fundamentally
> recognisable as Smalltalk.

And I see this as one of the strongest points of smalltalk, this
kind of maturity may seem old and/or odd to newcomers, but with
time, you find the way to work with it, it gives the programmer the
right kinetic of use, nor faster, nor slower.
The "intellisense" completion will help a bit to the developer when
in "fast type mode", but I hope it doesnt change that "kinetic harmony".

But thinking in Workspaces, browsers, and inspectors, as "abstract"
entities, you'll find many object based systems basing their GUI's
as a combination of the three. As if you dont need many more "tools".

IdeaSpace's will help to develop that way, and perhaps enhace the
way of developing GUI's of final applications.

For example the MS Outlook COM object model works in that way, with
that kind of names also, Aplication, Explorer and Inspectors,
respectively.

>>Well, I wasn't really looking at a UI point of view. Fromw hat I can
>>tell a lot has changed since then. The VM, Views, The Class
>>Heirarchy... I think the only real constant has been the GUI given
>>the fact that it is a Windows Environment.

Not many GUI's had changed in the last 20 years. You'll find most of
the today methaphor roots back in the eighties. That's a big lack of
improvements.

>>I was actually more amazed that the snapshot was of the site from
>>1996.  Which means that Andy and Blair have been working on this for
>>close to 9 years, which amazed me.

The commitment is really admirable. Thanks OA.

--
Esteban.

Sean Malloy escribió:
>>Unfortunately, the JPEGs don't appear to have been archived. I remember
>>that the only response we got to the page was that one of our early
>>users said we had "Great Hair". Perhaps it is a blessing that the
>>photos have disappeared.

> Well, aside from the great hair, my wife says you have a sexy voice!
> I made her watch the IdeaSpace video, and while she had no idea wtf it was
> about, she commented that "That guys voice is dead sexy". Go Andy!

And aside from the sexy voice issue, the voice is "so british" that
is hard to understand for non-english people. I must assume that my
english understanding is not the best, even when is easier to
understand british english than "american"* english.

* Like if "America" is only USA :-(

But as a spanish talking person from Argentina, the same happens
when I listen people talking "so spanish" from Spain. Kind of potato
in the mouth ;-)

Said the above, perhaps subtitles would help a lot, and doesn't seem
to be something hard to add.

Best regards.

--
Esteban.