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Hi Neil
what you report is strange. Can you let us know: - vm - OS - image version - your display depth Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts. Now lot of us are on mac. Please note that you can forward this email to the newsgroup because I cannot post there. I never noticed a grow mention by the person which replied to you. If you want to have fast and supportive answers to your question send them to the pharo mailing-lists since we do not read news groups in general. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Thanks for your reply :)
>> what you report is strange. >> Can you let us know: > >> - vm > > The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from > the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta). > >> - OS > > Win2K SP4 > >> - image version > > Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image > >> - your display depth > > True Color 24 bit I have Display depth -> 32 then 24 looks strange to me. depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel Can you type Display depth and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something? >> Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic >> in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts. > > It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an > old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak. We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) Can you change the theme? using the preference pane? Thanks Stef > > Neil Butterworth _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Stef,
I have a "slow" machine that stands ready to help with numbers any time; it is semi-retired now, running Ubuntu 9.04. It might be a good ideas to dual-boot it, but I find it challenging to work up the motivation to assault it with a Windows CD, and I have a similar era machine running win2k. My sense is that Pharo is slower than Squeak, and I am suspicious that the Linux vm is not as efficient as it could be. I forget wheher I saw this only on Linux, but somewhere I reported a long-sourced method that I saw draw in monochrome and AGAIN in color. Nothing against Shout (as the self-apppointed comment pedant, I **really** appreciate syntax highlighting), there might be some room for efficiency by skipping the monochrom pass. Resizing on Linux turns the main window black. It might make more sense to invalidate and draw once after the sizing is complete?? I have long heard people claim that Linux is faster than Windows, but I was not convinced. Having recently purchased a new machine and watched it labor under the weight of Vista long enough to see for myself what all the stench was about, I think I get it. Current Linux distributions with the customary graphical largese are not happy on 7+ year old machines that handily run Win2k. However, a new box that just barely gets by under Windows will be relatively quick running Linux. I forget who said it: "software is getting slow faster than hardware is getting fast." Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:02 PM To: neil butterworth Cc: Pharo Development Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo Thanks for your reply :) >> what you report is strange. >> Can you let us know: > >> - vm > > The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from > the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta). > >> - OS > > Win2K SP4 > >> - image version > > Once again, a very recent download - > pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image > >> - your display depth > > True Color 24 bit I have Display depth -> 32 then 24 looks strange to me. depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel Can you type Display depth and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something? >> Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase >> of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts. > > It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an > old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak. We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) Can you change the theme? using the preference pane? Thanks Stef > > Neil Butterworth _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In my experience the truetype fonts and the mac skin are a major
slowdown. If I disable both things I get a much faster image. Now I do like nice fonts, so I just live with that speed penalty ... Lukas On Thursday, November 26, 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]> wrote: > Stef, > > I have a "slow" machine that stands ready to help with numbers any time; it is semi-retired now, running Ubuntu 9.04. It might be a good ideas to dual-boot it, but I find it challenging to work up the motivation to assault it with a Windows CD, and I have a similar era machine running win2k. > > My sense is that Pharo is slower than Squeak, and I am suspicious that the Linux vm is not as efficient as it could be. I forget wheher I saw this only on Linux, but somewhere I reported a long-sourced method that I saw draw in monochrome and AGAIN in color. Nothing against Shout (as the self-apppointed comment pedant, I **really** appreciate syntax highlighting), there might be some room for efficiency by skipping the monochrom pass. > > Resizing on Linux turns the main window black. It might make more sense to invalidate and draw once after the sizing is complete?? > > I have long heard people claim that Linux is faster than Windows, but I was not convinced. Having recently purchased a new machine and watched it labor under the weight of Vista long enough to see for myself what all the stench was about, I think I get it. Current Linux distributions with the customary graphical largese are not happy on 7+ year old machines that handily run Win2k. However, a new box that just barely gets by under Windows will be relatively quick running Linux. > > I forget who said it: "software is getting slow faster than hardware is getting fast." > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:02 PM > To: neil butterworth > Cc: Pharo Development > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo > > Thanks for your reply :) > >>> what you report is strange. >>> Can you let us know: >> >>> - vm >> >> The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from >> the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta). >> >>> - OS >> >> Win2K SP4 >> >>> - image version >> >> Once again, a very recent download - >> pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image >> >>> - your display depth >> >> True Color 24 bit > > I have > Display depth -> 32 > > then 24 looks strange to me. > > depth: bitsPerPixel > (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: > [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) > ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. > depth := bitsPerPixel > > Can you type > Display depth > > and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something? > >>> Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase >>> of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts. >> >> It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an >> old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak. > > We should keep an old machine around to test it. > this is strange. > Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. > Which browser are you using > Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) > > Can you change the theme? > using the preference pane? > > > Thanks > > Stef > >> >> Neil Butterworth > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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On Nov 27, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > In my experience the truetype fonts and the mac skin are a major > slowdown. If I disable both things I get a much faster image. Now I do > like nice fonts, so I just live with that speed penalty ... > maybe we should add a note to the download page that on slow machines, people should download the Core image instead and switch the skin to a simpler one... Marcus > Lukas > > On Thursday, November 26, 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Stef, >> >> I have a "slow" machine that stands ready to help with numbers any time; it is semi-retired now, running Ubuntu 9.04. It might be a good ideas to dual-boot it, but I find it challenging to work up the motivation to assault it with a Windows CD, and I have a similar era machine running win2k. >> >> My sense is that Pharo is slower than Squeak, and I am suspicious that the Linux vm is not as efficient as it could be. I forget wheher I saw this only on Linux, but somewhere I reported a long-sourced method that I saw draw in monochrome and AGAIN in color. Nothing against Shout (as the self-apppointed comment pedant, I **really** appreciate syntax highlighting), there might be some room for efficiency by skipping the monochrom pass. >> >> Resizing on Linux turns the main window black. It might make more sense to invalidate and draw once after the sizing is complete?? >> >> I have long heard people claim that Linux is faster than Windows, but I was not convinced. Having recently purchased a new machine and watched it labor under the weight of Vista long enough to see for myself what all the stench was about, I think I get it. Current Linux distributions with the customary graphical largese are not happy on 7+ year old machines that handily run Win2k. However, a new box that just barely gets by under Windows will be relatively quick running Linux. >> >> I forget who said it: "software is getting slow faster than hardware is getting fast." >> >> Bill >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:02 PM >> To: neil butterworth >> Cc: Pharo Development >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo >> >> Thanks for your reply :) >> >>>> what you report is strange. >>>> Can you let us know: >>> >>>> - vm >>> >>> The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from >>> the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta). >>> >>>> - OS >>> >>> Win2K SP4 >>> >>>> - image version >>> >>> Once again, a very recent download - >>> pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image >>> >>>> - your display depth >>> >>> True Color 24 bit >> >> I have >> Display depth -> 32 >> >> then 24 looks strange to me. >> >> depth: bitsPerPixel >> (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: >> [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) >> ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. >> depth := bitsPerPixel >> >> Can you type >> Display depth >> >> and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something? >> >>>> Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase >>>> of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts. >>> >>> It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an >>> old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak. >> >> We should keep an old machine around to test it. >> this is strange. >> Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. >> Which browser are you using >> Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) >> >> Can you change the theme? >> using the preference pane? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Stef >> >>> >>> Neil Butterworth >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Yep,
I think we should create a benchmark _image_ then... Em 26/11/2009 20:02, Stéphane Ducasse < [hidden email] > escreveu: Thanks for your reply :) >> what you report is strange. >> Can you let us know: > >> - vm > > The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from > the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta). > >> - OS > > Win2K SP4 > >> - image version > > Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image > >> - your display depth > > True Color 24 bit I have Display depth -> 32 then 24 looks strange to me. depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel Can you type Display depth and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something? >> Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic >> in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts. > > It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an > old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak. We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) Can you change the theme? using the preference pane? Thanks Stef > > Neil Butterworth _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-3
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
Once I wrote this: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CodeSnippets Look the title "isabling features for more speed". Marcus _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Thanks.
speed up the system was always a concern to us now the font rendering takes time and we have all new machines so we do not feel the slugginess. Now this is important and in 1.1 we already got 15% speed increase for morphic. Stef On Nov 27, 2009, at 10:09 AM, neil butterworth wrote: > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Thanks for your reply :) >> >>> True Color 24 bit >> >> I have >> Display depth -> 32 >> >> then 24 looks strange to me. > > 24-bit is as reported by Windows Control Panel. I've changed this to 32 bit. > >> >> depth: bitsPerPixel >> (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: >> [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) >> ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. >> depth := bitsPerPixel >> >> Can you type >> Display depth > > This gives me 32. > >> >> and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something? > > Makes no difference, I'm afraid :-( > >> We should keep an old machine around to test it. >> this is strange. >> Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. >> Which browser are you using > > I've tried all the available browsers, and I've turned off all > eye-candy stuff like gradients. I don't think this is a browser issue. > The problem is if I click on any window (including transcript & > workspace) there is an appreciable lag beforethe window activates. It > seems posible that this is something in the mouse event processing, > rather than the display code. > >> Can you change the theme? >> using the preference pane? > > I've messed about with just about all possible settings. THis is not a > new problem BTW - a version of Pharo I tried about 6 months ago had > the same issues, but I assumed that they would get ironed out as time > went on - unfortunately, it seems not. > > Thanks for your help, anyway > > Neil Butterworth _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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