about cloud in pharo
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Hi guys
When I see that. I would really like to see how we can create something around the cloud. We have a lot of assets. Does anybody have some interest bootstrapping a business around that? Today http://heroku.com/ were bought by Salesforce for over 200 million (http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/08/breaking-salesforce-buys-heroku-for-212-million-in-cash/)! Stef |
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Hello,
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:14 PM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi guys > > When I see that. I would really like to see how we can create something around the cloud. We have a lot of assets. > Does anybody have some interest bootstrapping a business around that? > > Today http://heroku.com/ were bought by Salesforce for over 200 million (http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/08/breaking-salesforce-buys-heroku-for-212-million-in-cash/)! > Better ask Gemstone about how they can scale with their GLASS servers :) IMHO, the big advantage of Heroku is the simplicity to deploy and manage servers, and it's based on tools like git and their remote administration package. So I guess focusing on easy deployment and administration of servers is a first step. Geoffroy |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi guys _very_ I'd love to do high-quality VM work funded in this kind of context.
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Re: about cloud in pharo
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On 09 Dec 2010, at 20:39, Eliot Miranda wrote: > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi guys > > When I see that. I would really like to see how we can create something around the cloud. We have a lot of assets. > Does anybody have some interest bootstrapping a business around that? > > _very_ I'd love to do high-quality VM work funded in this kind of context. Isn't / shouldn't Cog already (be) a high quality VM then ? I don't think (I am actually pretty sure) that Ruby has a good VM, Smalltalk's is way better (many more decades of experience, from the times when hardware mattered). Up until very recently (and even after the RoR hype started) they had no unicode support and no multithreading. Even now, they always (have to) deploy clusters of multiple VMs to scale. [On the other hand, this makes every deploy better scaleable because they have to do it from day one]. Seaside can do all that too (the scaling/clustering), it is sometimes little things that cause problems. For example, many people have tried but very little have succeeding in building a VM themselves that is as fast as the 'official' ones. Headless support is another one. Better sockets and streaming would also help. Cloud support is actually lot's of Unix/Linux level work combined with automation. Smalltalk, Ruby, Lisp, Python, Java, .Net or even C, it doesn't matter much. But don't get me wrong, I do think Smalltalk has an interesting future. It is still one of the nicest languages/environments/IDE's/communities to work in. And Pharo has been a great step in modernizing Smalltalk. And Cog just made everything incredibly much faster. Sven |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
Hello everybody,
I am interested in something around the cloud with pharo...not really for business purpose but for using/developing scalable pharo-based technology and services on the cloud ! Herve On 9 déc. 2010, at 20:14, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi guys > > When I see that. I would really like to see how we can create something around the cloud. We have a lot of assets. > Does anybody have some interest bootstrapping a business around that? > > Today http://heroku.com/ were bought by Salesforce for over 200 million (http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/08/breaking-salesforce-buys-heroku-for-212-million-in-cash/)! > > Stef > |
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In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
On Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
> > On 09 Dec 2010, at 20:39, Eliot Miranda wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi guys >> >> When I see that. I would really like to see how we can create something around the cloud. We have a lot of assets. >> Does anybody have some interest bootstrapping a business around that? >> >> _very_ I'd love to do high-quality VM work funded in this kind of context. > > Isn't / shouldn't Cog already (be) a high quality VM then ? > > I don't think (I am actually pretty sure) that Ruby has a good VM, Smalltalk's is way better (many more decades of experience, from the times when hardware mattered). Up until very recently (and even after the RoR hype started) they had no unicode support and no multithreading. Even now, they always (have to) deploy clusters of multiple VMs to scale. [On the other hand, this makes every deploy better scaleable because they have to do it from day one]. > > Seaside can do all that too (the scaling/clustering), it is sometimes little things that cause problems. For example, many people have tried but very little have succeeding in building a VM themselves that is as fast as the 'official' ones. Headless support is another one. Better sockets and streaming would also help. What's wrong with sockets on the VM side? Levente > > Cloud support is actually lot's of Unix/Linux level work combined with automation. Smalltalk, Ruby, Lisp, Python, Java, .Net or even C, it doesn't matter much. > > But don't get me wrong, I do think Smalltalk has an interesting future. It is still one of the nicest languages/environments/IDE's/communities to work in. And Pharo has been a great step in modernizing Smalltalk. And Cog just made everything incredibly much faster. > > Sven > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:
Its code generator is naive, the object representation is over-complex, the GC is poor (no incremental mark-sweep), the FFI is weak (no threading), there is no multi-core solution available as yet, there is no 64-bit solution, there is no adaptive optimizer. While I'm making progress on some of these I certainly don't have enough time to focus on them and would love the chance to do just that, working with people like Igor and Marcus.
I fear you're right. But I'm told that being able to scale is key, and that is in part a VM performance and tuning issue, not just a deployment configuration issue.
Somewhat faster :) There's potentially much more to come. best Eliot
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In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2
When I read about the Heroku buy the first thing I remembered was
Morphle project because it's leader, Merik, all the time was focused in a business model as Heroku had. Myself worked a bit (on the side image) some time ago to help have (not cloud still) but multiple seaside customers (as some others experiments). Today I think that Morphle is already running such business and, may be, doing things thinking in cloud. In summary, I'm sure that cloud is the way to go, and count me in to any idea related with some sort of business/startup/entrepreneural initiative around Pharo on the cloud. Cheers. Germán. 2010/12/9 Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]>: > > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> Hi guys >> >> When I see that. I would really like to see how we can create something >> around the cloud. We have a lot of assets. >> Does anybody have some interest bootstrapping a business around that? > > _very_ I'd love to do high-quality VM work funded in this kind of context. > >> >> Today http://heroku.com/ were bought by Salesforce for over 200 million >> (http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/08/breaking-salesforce-buys-heroku-for-212-million-in-cash/)! >> >> Stef > > -- ================================================= Germán S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino Arduino Software & Web Hosting http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com ================================================= |
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On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:35 AM, Germán Arduino wrote: > When I read about the Heroku buy the first thing I remembered was > Morphle project because it's leader, Merik, all the time was focused > in a business model as Heroku had. well when I hear that name I just want to leave the room and run fast. > Myself worked a bit (on the side image) some time ago to help have > (not cloud still) but multiple seaside customers (as some others > experiments). > > Today I think that Morphle is already running such business and, may > be, doing things thinking in cloud. > > In summary, I'm sure that cloud is the way to go, and count me in to > any idea related with some sort of business/startup/entrepreneural > initiative around Pharo on the cloud. I would be interested to hear about simple solutions for hosting seaside and other apps > > Cheers. > Germán. > > > > 2010/12/9 Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]>: >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi guys >>> >>> When I see that. I would really like to see how we can create something >>> around the cloud. We have a lot of assets. >>> Does anybody have some interest bootstrapping a business around that? >> >> _very_ I'd love to do high-quality VM work funded in this kind of context. >> >>> >>> Today http://heroku.com/ were bought by Salesforce for over 200 million >>> (http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/08/breaking-salesforce-buys-heroku-for-212-million-in-cash/)! >>> >>> Stef >> >> > > > > -- > ================================================= > Germán S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino > Arduino Software & Web Hosting http://www.arduinosoftware.com > PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com > ================================================= > |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
I started following Squeak/Pharo "because" I can see potential for Smalltalk as a cloud platform. I did look at Heroku and I did like how easy they make it to build and deploy apps to the cloud. I reckon the solution needs to make it easy to manage versions, environments (dev/test/live) and deploy apps in the cloud. also needs some sort of pluggable component sharing. A browser based IDE would be great too so you can use a Chrome OS notebook from wherever you want :)
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
2010/12/10 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> In summary, I'm sure that cloud is the way to go, and count me in to >> any idea related with some sort of business/startup/entrepreneural >> initiative around Pharo on the cloud. > > I would be interested to hear about simple solutions for hosting seaside and other apps > > Well, I agree that the first thing we need (talking here in terms of Seaside (Pharo or Squeak)) is an easy and affordable way to host Seaside solutions. As I can saw on all this time developing customer solutions in Seaside, the main problem is host them and not, VPS is not the solution. |
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