about the Viewer for a Morph

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
14 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

about the Viewer for a Morph

Nicola Mingotti

Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti







Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

marcel.taeumel
 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti







Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Nicola Mingotti

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti









Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Karl Ramberg
Hi,
I dom't really understand what you ask here.
Could you send a screen shot or something ?

Best,
Karl


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti










Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Nicola Mingotti
hi,

here is a video explaining the question



bye
Nicola




On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I dom't really understand what you ask here.
Could you send a screen shot or something ?

Best,
Karl


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti












Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Karl Ramberg
Hi,
I understand what you talk about now :-)
This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.

Best,
Karl


On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi,

here is a video explaining the question



bye
Nicola




On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I dom't really understand what you ask here.
Could you send a screen shot or something ?

Best,
Karl


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti













Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Nicola Mingotti

Hi Karl,

The feature is very promising. 

It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a video. 

Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something that Typing Joe did thousands of times. 
It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement. 

If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video. 

bye
Nicola




On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I understand what you talk about now :-)
This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.

Best,
Karl


On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi,

here is a video explaining the question



bye
Nicola




On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I dom't really understand what you ask here.
Could you send a screen shot or something ?

Best,
Karl


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti















Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Christoph Thiede

+1 for completing this feature, I think it could be a useful part of the Squeak workflow.


Von: Squeak-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Oktober 2019 05:32:43
An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] about the Viewer for a Morph
 

Hi Karl,

The feature is very promising. 

It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a video. 

Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something that Typing Joe did thousands of times. 
It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement. 

If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video. 

bye
Nicola




On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I understand what you talk about now :-)
This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.

Best,
Karl


On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi,

here is a video explaining the question



bye
Nicola




On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I dom't really understand what you ask here.
Could you send a screen shot or something ?

Best,
Karl


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti















Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Karl Ramberg
In reply to this post by Nicola Mingotti
I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore

The main issue is scaleability  of tile  scripting in regards to writing text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed. 
Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal with than tiles. 

Best,
Karl 


On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Karl,

The feature is very promising. 

It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a video. 

Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something that Typing Joe did thousands of times. 
It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement. 

If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video. 

bye
Nicola




On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I understand what you talk about now :-)
This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.

Best,
Karl


On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi,

here is a video explaining the question



bye
Nicola




On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I dom't really understand what you ask here.
Could you send a screen shot or something ?

Best,
Karl


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti
















Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Bob Arning-2
In reply to this post by Nicola Mingotti
Whether it is useful now is hard to say, but here is a comment from 2002 that offers some insight:

offerViewerMenuFor: aViewer event: evt
    "Offer the primary Viewer menu to the user.  Copied up from Player code, but most of the functions suggested here don't work for non-Player objects, many aren't even defined, some relate to exploratory sw work not yet reflected in the current corpus.  We are early in the life cycle of this method..."


On 10/18/19 1:37 AM, Nicola Mingotti wrote:
hi,

here is a video explaining the question



bye
Nicola




On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
I dom't really understand what you ask here.
Could you send a screen shot or something ?

Best,
Karl


On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Marcel,

I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. 

Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer for a Morph ! 

And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the big picture nor how to use it.

It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in the World, in a tile. 

bye
Nicola








On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 

I think you need to click on "viewer for player". Players can have scripts, which are constructed from those tiles.

Best,
Marcel

Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]>:


Hi, 

Please follow these steps:

1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
2] Center click over it
3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
4] Select "Viewer for Morph"

I see a lot of properties which I usually control via the Workspace.

Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".

My questions are:
-] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in the Viewer window ? 
-] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into the World . So I could always check (in this case) the center of a Morph. 
-] More in general, I don't understand how I can use all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? 

bye

Nicola Mingotti












    



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

K K Subbu
In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
Karl,

I recall the tile-based scripting code was designed to introduce
programming concepts to young children (1-5th grade). The stage metaphor
(players, costumers, scripts, timing) are easy for them to understand.

Once children are old enough to type and use keyboard, they can switch
over to using text and use the full power of Squeak.

Not sure what you mean by "the premise is flawed". It works very well
for its intended audience.

Regards .. Subbu

On 19/10/19 11:08 PM, karl ramberg wrote:

> I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore
>
> The main issue is scaleability  of tile  scripting in regards to writing
> text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I
> find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project
> bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe
> it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed.
> Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text
> scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal
> with than tiles.
>
> Best,
> Karl
>
>
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi Karl,
>
>     The feature is very promising.
>
>     It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the
>     imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a
>     video.
>
>     Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly
>     variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something
>     that Typing Joe did thousands of times.
>     It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself
>     and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement.
>
>     If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a
>     landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video.
>
>     bye
>     Nicola
>
>
>
>
>>     On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>     I understand what you talk about now :-)
>>     This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan
>>     to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Karl
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>         hi,
>>
>>         here is a video explaining the question
>>
>>         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be
>>
>>
>>         bye
>>         Nicola
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>         On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg
>>>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi,
>>>         I dom't really understand what you ask here.
>>>         Could you send a screen shot or something ?
>>>
>>>         Best,
>>>         Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>             Hi Marcel,
>>>
>>>             I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players.
>>>
>>>             Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer
>>>             for a Morph !
>>>
>>>             And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the
>>>             big picture nor how to use it.
>>>
>>>             It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the
>>>             Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in
>>>             the World, in a tile.
>>>
>>>             bye
>>>             Nicola
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>             On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel
>>>>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>>             wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             >  Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>
>>>>             I think you need to click on "viewer for player".
>>>>             Players can have scripts, which are constructed from
>>>>             those tiles.
>>>>
>>>>             Best,
>>>>             Marcel
>>>>>
>>>>>             Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>             Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>             Please follow these steps:
>>>>>
>>>>>             1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
>>>>>             2] Center click over it
>>>>>             3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
>>>>>             4] Select "Viewer for Morph"
>>>>>
>>>>>             I see a lot of properties which I usually control via
>>>>>             the Workspace.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".
>>>>>
>>>>>             My questions are:
>>>>>             -] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>>             -] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag
>>>>>             out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into
>>>>>             the World . So I could always check (in this case) the
>>>>>             center of a Morph.
>>>>>             -] More in general, I don't understand how I can use
>>>>>             all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ?
>>>>>
>>>>>             bye
>>>>>
>>>>>             Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Karl Ramberg


On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 7:19 PM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
Karl,

I recall the tile-based scripting code was designed to introduce
programming concepts to young children (1-5th grade). The stage metaphor
(players, costumers, scripts, timing) are easy for them to understand.

Once children are old enough to type and use keyboard, they can switch
over to using text and use the full power of Squeak.

Not sure what you mean by "the premise is flawed". It works very well
for its intended audience.

I mean it's hard to program so to start tile scripting seems like a good idea.
But the leverage you get from using tiles is surpassed within a few projects.
Anything more complex than 10 scripts or  is really cumbersome.
Also any complex scripts are also hard to deal with. Text for this is far superior.

I'm sure tile scripting has its use but I'm not very motivated to develop and enhance
etoys anymore. I used to do a lot of work for the Etoys image for OLPC.

Best,
Karl


Regards .. Subbu

On 19/10/19 11:08 PM, karl ramberg wrote:
> I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore
>
> The main issue is scaleability  of tile  scripting in regards to writing
> text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I
> find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project
> bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe
> it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed.
> Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text
> scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal
> with than tiles.
>
> Best,
> Karl
>
>
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi Karl,
>
>     The feature is very promising.
>
>     It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the
>     imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a
>     video.
>
>     Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly
>     variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something
>     that Typing Joe did thousands of times.
>     It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself
>     and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement.
>
>     If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a
>     landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video.
>
>     bye
>     Nicola
>
>
>
>
>>     On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>     I understand what you talk about now :-)
>>     This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan
>>     to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Karl
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>         hi,
>>
>>         here is a video explaining the question
>>
>>         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be
>>
>>
>>         bye
>>         Nicola
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>         On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg
>>>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi,
>>>         I dom't really understand what you ask here.
>>>         Could you send a screen shot or something ?
>>>
>>>         Best,
>>>         Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>             Hi Marcel,
>>>
>>>             I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players.
>>>
>>>             Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer
>>>             for a Morph !
>>>
>>>             And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the
>>>             big picture nor how to use it.
>>>
>>>             It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the
>>>             Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in
>>>             the World, in a tile.
>>>
>>>             bye
>>>             Nicola
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>             On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel
>>>>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>>             wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             >  Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>
>>>>             I think you need to click on "viewer for player".
>>>>             Players can have scripts, which are constructed from
>>>>             those tiles.
>>>>
>>>>             Best,
>>>>             Marcel
>>>>>
>>>>>             Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>             Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>             Please follow these steps:
>>>>>
>>>>>             1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
>>>>>             2] Center click over it
>>>>>             3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
>>>>>             4] Select "Viewer for Morph"
>>>>>
>>>>>             I see a lot of properties which I usually control via
>>>>>             the Workspace.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".
>>>>>
>>>>>             My questions are:
>>>>>             -] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>>             -] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag
>>>>>             out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into
>>>>>             the World . So I could always check (in this case) the
>>>>>             center of a Morph.
>>>>>             -] More in general, I don't understand how I can use
>>>>>             all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ?
>>>>>
>>>>>             bye
>>>>>
>>>>>             Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Nicola Mingotti

Hi Karl,

In my opinion there is no doubt the Etoys is inferior in power to pure text programming. But I suppose that was never an objective, since, for example in the Etoys variables you can't use Collections. What could you do in Smalltalk without Collections? ;)

Maybe with time I will realize Etoys is hopeless too, but for the moment I find it kind of cool. I am going to spend a bit more time exploring it. 

bye
Nicola





On Oct 20, 2019, at 11:06 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 7:19 PM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
Karl,

I recall the tile-based scripting code was designed to introduce
programming concepts to young children (1-5th grade). The stage metaphor 
(players, costumers, scripts, timing) are easy for them to understand.

Once children are old enough to type and use keyboard, they can switch 
over to using text and use the full power of Squeak.

Not sure what you mean by "the premise is flawed". It works very well 
for its intended audience.

I mean it's hard to program so to start tile scripting seems like a good idea.
But the leverage you get from using tiles is surpassed within a few projects.
Anything more complex than 10 scripts or  is really cumbersome.
Also any complex scripts are also hard to deal with. Text for this is far superior.

I'm sure tile scripting has its use but I'm not very motivated to develop and enhance
etoys anymore. I used to do a lot of work for the Etoys image for OLPC.

Best,
Karl


Regards .. Subbu

On 19/10/19 11:08 PM, karl ramberg wrote:

> I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore
> 
> The main issue is scaleability  of tile  scripting in regards to writing 
> text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I 
> find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project 
> bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe 
> it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed.
> Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text 
> scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal 
> with than tiles.
> 
> Best,
> Karl
> 
> 
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email] 
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hi Karl,
> 
>     The feature is very promising.
> 
>     It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the
>     imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a
>     video.
> 
>     Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly
>     variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something
>     that Typing Joe did thousands of times.
>     It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself
>     and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement.
> 
>     If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a
>     landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video.
> 
>     bye
>     Nicola
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>     On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>     I understand what you talk about now :-)
>>     This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan
>>     to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Karl
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>         hi,
>>
>>         here is a video explaining the question
>>
>>         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be
>>
>>
>>         bye
>>         Nicola
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>         On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg
>>>         <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi,
>>>         I dom't really understand what you ask here.
>>>         Could you send a screen shot or something ?
>>>
>>>         Best,
>>>         Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>             Hi Marcel,
>>>
>>>             I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players.
>>>
>>>             Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer
>>>             for a Morph !
>>>
>>>             And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the
>>>             big picture nor how to use it.
>>>
>>>             It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the
>>>             Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in
>>>             the World, in a tile.
>>>
>>>             bye
>>>             Nicola
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>             On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel
>>>>             <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>>             wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             >  Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>
>>>>             I think you need to click on "viewer for player".
>>>>             Players can have scripts, which are constructed from
>>>>             those tiles.
>>>>
>>>>             Best,
>>>>             Marcel
>>>>>
>>>>>             Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>             <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>             Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>             Please follow these steps:
>>>>>
>>>>>             1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
>>>>>             2] Center click over it
>>>>>             3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
>>>>>             4] Select "Viewer for Morph"
>>>>>
>>>>>             I see a lot of properties which I usually control via
>>>>>             the Workspace.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".
>>>>>
>>>>>             My questions are:
>>>>>             -] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>>             -] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag
>>>>>             out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into
>>>>>             the World . So I could always check (in this case) the
>>>>>             center of a Morph.
>>>>>             -] More in general, I don't understand how I can use
>>>>>             all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ?
>>>>>
>>>>>             bye
>>>>>
>>>>>             Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: about the Viewer for a Morph

Karl Ramberg


On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 at 07:38, Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Karl,

In my opinion there is no doubt the Etoys is inferior in power to pure text programming. But I suppose that was never an objective, since, for example in the Etoys variables you can't use Collections. What could you do in Smalltalk without Collections? ;)

Maybe with time I will realize Etoys is hopeless too, but for the moment I find it kind of cool. I am going to spend a bit more time exploring it. 

bye
Nicola

Etoys is quite nice for it’s intended use :-)

You can use holders for collections.
Here is a project that use holders for collections:


Best regards,
Karl





On Oct 20, 2019, at 11:06 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 7:19 PM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
Karl,

I recall the tile-based scripting code was designed to introduce
programming concepts to young children (1-5th grade). The stage metaphor 
(players, costumers, scripts, timing) are easy for them to understand.

Once children are old enough to type and use keyboard, they can switch 
over to using text and use the full power of Squeak.

Not sure what you mean by "the premise is flawed". It works very well 
for its intended audience.

I mean it's hard to program so to start tile scripting seems like a good idea.
But the leverage you get from using tiles is surpassed within a few projects.
Anything more complex than 10 scripts or  is really cumbersome.
Also any complex scripts are also hard to deal with. Text for this is far superior.

I'm sure tile scripting has its use but I'm not very motivated to develop and enhance
etoys anymore. I used to do a lot of work for the Etoys image for OLPC.

Best,
Karl


Regards .. Subbu

On 19/10/19 11:08 PM, karl ramberg wrote:

> I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore
> 
> The main issue is scaleability  of tile  scripting in regards to writing 
> text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I 
> find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project 
> bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe 
> it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed.
> Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text 
> scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal 
> with than tiles.
> 
> Best,
> Karl
> 
> 
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <[hidden email] 
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hi Karl,
> 
>     The feature is very promising.
> 
>     It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the
>     imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a
>     video.
> 
>     Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly
>     variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something
>     that Typing Joe did thousands of times.
>     It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself
>     and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement.
> 
>     If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a
>     landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video.
> 
>     bye
>     Nicola
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>     On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>     I understand what you talk about now :-)
>>     This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan
>>     to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Karl
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>         hi,
>>
>>         here is a video explaining the question
>>
>>         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be
>>
>>
>>         bye
>>         Nicola
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>         On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg
>>>         <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi,
>>>         I dom't really understand what you ask here.
>>>         Could you send a screen shot or something ?
>>>
>>>         Best,
>>>         Karl
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti
>>>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>             Hi Marcel,
>>>
>>>             I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players.
>>>
>>>             Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer
>>>             for a Morph !
>>>
>>>             And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the
>>>             big picture nor how to use it.
>>>
>>>             It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the
>>>             Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in
>>>             the World, in a tile.
>>>
>>>             bye
>>>             Nicola
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>             On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel
>>>>             <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>>             wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             >  Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>
>>>>             I think you need to click on "viewer for player".
>>>>             Players can have scripts, which are constructed from
>>>>             those tiles.
>>>>
>>>>             Best,
>>>>             Marcel
>>>>>
>>>>>             Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>             <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>             Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>             Please follow these steps:
>>>>>
>>>>>             1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
>>>>>             2] Center click over it
>>>>>             3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
>>>>>             4] Select "Viewer for Morph"
>>>>>
>>>>>             I see a lot of properties which I usually control via
>>>>>             the Workspace.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".
>>>>>
>>>>>             My questions are:
>>>>>             -] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>>>>>             -] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag
>>>>>             out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into
>>>>>             the World . So I could always check (in this case) the
>>>>>             center of a Morph.
>>>>>             -] More in general, I don't understand how I can use
>>>>>             all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ?
>>>>>
>>>>>             bye
>>>>>
>>>>>             Nicola Mingotti
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
>