annoying wheel mouse isse

> Charles,
> Don't give your middle finger to the group, even when they deserve it  
> :-).
>
> Actually I second Bob's experience. in most of the development windows  
> like browser the scroll works as advertised, very seldom popping up the  
> menu.
>
>
> The wormhole you are referring to is the special thing provided by the  
> mouse drivers, in my case it is some kid of arrow.  and it is appears to  
> be application specific behavior i.e.
> in my case of the Ms Mouse and no special drives:
> Netscape 7.2 ignores the click,
> IE changes the shape of the cursor and goes to some kind of scroll-drag  
> state
> VW pops up a menu,
> Acrobat 6.x ignore the whell click and just do scroll.
> Other applications with scroll box does like the IE.
>
> I tried four different mices 2 of them Microsoft and two of the  
> different  manufacturers.
>
> The bottom line:
> 1. it is inconsistent across the different  applications,
> 2. it does depend on what kind of the view (window control) is being used
> 3. if the specific software for the mouse is installed ( logitech Vs.  
> Microsoft for example) the behavior varies.
> 4. It is not that easy to tell that the wheel click was intentional or  
> not.  Possible solution to buffer few mouse events to see that the click  
> does occur in the sequence of the rotations, then you probably ??? can  
> ignore it.  But then what about newest bread of mice which do allow not  
> only scroll, but also wiggle the wheel ?
>
> 5. you can instruct your controller to ignore the middle button event  
> altogether - most of the modern windows applications don't recognize it  
> anyway, so why bother
>
> --MArk
>
> Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>
>> nothing is too obvious :)
>>  but yes I had the same problem with a micro wireless mouse here, have  
>> not  checked any other tethered mouse
>> reason being is that there are not too many mice around here and  
>> secondly  I got the same problem at home when I hooked up a USB mouse  
>> to my  notebook, I have not tried with my new computer which is  
>> certainly an up  to date machine i.e. Core2 Duo 2.67mhz 2 gig ram but I  
>> digress, I guess I  can install VW there although I have been resisting  
>> putting any dev stuff  in there.
>>  but here's the thing, imagine I'm your customer and I'm paying you a  
>> zillion bucks for your software and I have this problem, I am then  
>> told  you that I must buy new mice even though the old mice work  
>> perfectly well  with the free open source Firefox browser and the free  
>> non open source  Acrobat reader. Hmmm ....
>>  BTW, I have noticed this for a while so perhaps I gave the wrong  
>> impression that I just encountered this with 7.4.1 its just that I  
>> finally  got annoyed enough to make a post
>>  possibly the only thing that I have not switched is me. I seem to be  
>> the  only common element in the equation. It is possible that I have a  
>> strong  middle finger which I developed playing the classical guitar.  
>> VW is also  probably more sensitive since again Firefox and Opera can  
>> take my middle  finger.
>>    On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 09:26:06 -0500, Bob Tucker  
>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> Charles, I am using VW 7.4.1 and can scroll with no problem using the
>>> wheel on the my mouse. I have to noticeably press on the wheel to get
>>> the blue menu.  I'm using a Microsoft IntelliMouse, so maybe there is
>>> something shorting in the mouse itself.  Not to sound obvious, but have
>>> you tried another mouse?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:08 AM
>>> To: Samuel S. Shuster; Boris Popov
>>> Cc: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: annoying wheel mouse isse
>>>
>>> nobody really said that it couldn't differentiate a wheel event and
>>> Boris, yes, if I really, really try i.e. try spinning the mouse wheel
>>> super fast in Opera I will get the strange scroll cursor but the point
>>> is that first of all I should not try to scroll super fast because
>>> that's why we have this "scroll" worm hole thing, secondly in VW I  
>>> don't
>>> have to try to spin the wheel super fast before I bump into that pop up
>>> menu, my methods are not that long :) that require so much scrolling ,
>>> so just normal wheel mouse walk in the park scrolling will bump into
>>> that annoying menu, at least for me
>>>
>>> quite possibly those apps are doing something, its a sensitivity thing
>>> which they have addressed
>>>
>>> what would be preferable would be to instead to jump into our own VW
>>> worm hole scroller. It may be an easier implementation than to try to
>>> build in some sort of tricky sensitivity scheme and its a pretty useful
>>> feature
>>>
>>> our users by the way love that and would really like to see it on our
>>> app
>>>
>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:50:31 -0500, Samuel S. Shuster
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Boris,
>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry I'm just having hard time imagining how VisualWorks would
>>>>> be responding to a blue-button-pressed event if it wasn't actually
>>>>> being fired by the OS?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It can't. Period. The only way that VisualWorks gets a "Blue Button
>>>> Pressed" event, is if the OS sends it.
>>>>
>>>> Mouse Wheel events, on Windows come in as a totally different event,
>>>> with its own OS event message ID and everything.
>>>>
>>>> The notion that VisualWorks somehow is unable to differentiate a Wheel
>>>
>>>
>>>> event from a Button Pressed event, and may somehow mix them up is at
>>>> best like believing in ghosts.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, if someone is not running or has overridden the raw event
>>>> dispatchers in VisualWorks, well, that's not so much Ghosts as it is
>>>> Saboteurs.
>>>>
>>>>                                  And So It Goes
>>>>                                       Sames
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Samuel S. Shuster [|]
>>>> VisualWorks Engineering, GUI Project
>>>> Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Charles A. Monteiro
>>> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
>>> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
>>> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> This message may contain confidential information and is intended for  
>>> specific recipients unless explicitly noted otherwise. If you have  
>>> reason to believe you are not an intended recipient of this message,  
>>> please delete it and notify the sender. This message may not  
>>> represent  the opinion of IntercontinentalExchange, Inc. (ICE), its  
>>> subsidiaries or  affiliates, and does not constitute a contract or  
>>> guarantee. Unencrypted  electronic mail is not secure and the  
>>> recipient of this message is  expected to provide safeguards from  
>>> viruses and pursue alternate means  of communication where privacy or  
>>> a binding message is desired.
>>>
>>

> Have you tried to pass over links in Firefox when using the wheel?
> At least my mouse and Firefox only reacts to clicks on the wheel when  
> the cursor is above a link.
> In other situations the it works more or less like scrolling all the  
> time.
> However I have never experienced that the scroll wheel generates "blue  
> clicks" in VisualWorks unless I explicitly, and purposely, click it.
>
> Björn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: den 1 november 2006 21:20
> To: Alan Knight; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: annoying wheel mouse isse
>
> well I'm certain that there is no "wheel event" but the problem is in  
> the use of the "wheel" and therefore if we understood that we were using  
> a wheel it may make things easier to handle but I guess that there is no  
> support for that i.e from the OS
>
> I wonder why it appears that VW is so much more sensitive, again in  
> Firefox it takes a very deliberate wheel button press action to invoke  
> the corresponding action i.e. the worm hole scrolling mode
>
> same mouse , different behavior and yes VW ought to behave like other  
> Windows apps do when in Windows
>
> in VW its very easy to bump into and more so when scrolling up with the  
> wheel
>
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:00:08 -0500, Alan Knight <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure that there is no wheel clicked event, and your wheel
>> is generating a button 3 event, so disabling that is equivalent to
>> disabling the use of the third button on three-button mice. And I
>> don't think that would be well received. It might be possible to put
>> in a setting in VisualWorks to ignore the third mouse button.
>>
>> At 01:35 PM 11/1/2006, Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>>> well now, not sure if you have noticed but the wheel when actually
>>> pressed i.e. not spun will turn into this wild looking cursor and it
>>> allows you to do very cool hyper worm hole type of scrolling , so it
>>> would be a real drag not to have that around, try it in something
>>> like Acrobat, or certainly in browsers such as Firefox and Opera
>>>
>>> but what would be nice is to say hey that when in VisualWorks, and
>>> especially since just because we have Travis around doesn't mean that
>>> we will get worm hole scrolling anytime soon, to indeed deactivate
>>> the "wheel pressed" event
>>>
>>> so please put that right behind my request to fix the other annoying
>>> Opentalk ST-ST NAT issue :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:22:09 -0500, Alan Knight <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's a property of the mouse. Open your mouse properties and
>>>> unassign the middle button. I think that's likely to require the
>>>> mouse manufacturer's software rather than being in the generic
>>>> Windows drivers. (I'm assuming you're using Windows).
>>>>
>>>> At 10:19 AM 11/1/2006, Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>>>>> VW version: 7.4.1
>>>>>
>>>>> when using the wheel mouse it is extremely easy for the blue button
>>>>> menu to pop up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a patch for this somewhere?
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Charles A. Monteiro
>>>>> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
>>>>> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
>>>>> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alan Knight [|], Cincom Smalltalk Development [hidden email]
>>>> [hidden email] http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
>>>>
>>>> "The Static Typing Philosophy: Make it fast. Make it right. Make it
>>>> run." - Niall Ross
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Charles A. Monteiro
>>> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
>>> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
>>> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
>>
>> --
>> Alan Knight [|], Cincom Smalltalk Development [hidden email]
>> [hidden email] http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
>>
>> "The Static Typing Philosophy: Make it fast. Make it right. Make it
>> run." - Niall Ross
>
>
>

> Bjorn:
>
> in my current installation of Firefox which should be the latest i.e.
> I reinstalled about a month ago, clicking on the mouse wheel will put
> it into that special scroll mode which simply allows you to move the
> mouse up and down anywhere on the UI and without having to hold down
> any mouse buttons, a second click will toggle off the "special scroll
> mode"
>
> btw, to be clear I'm talking about VW on Windows and nothing else
>
> btw, Sames I hope you own a Windows box :)
>
> I know you Cincom engineers like using those fancy Mac things :)
>
> On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:04:55 -0500, Björn Eiderbäck
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Have you tried to pass over links in Firefox when using the wheel?
>> At least my mouse and Firefox only reacts to clicks on the wheel when
>> the cursor is above a link.
>> In other situations the it works more or less like scrolling all the
>> time.
>> However I have never experienced that the scroll wheel generates
>> "blue clicks" in VisualWorks unless I explicitly, and purposely,
>> click it.
>>
>> Björn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: den 1 november 2006 21:20
>> To: Alan Knight; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: annoying wheel mouse isse
>>
>> well I'm certain that there is no "wheel event" but the problem is in
>> the use of the "wheel" and therefore if we understood that we were
>> using a wheel it may make things easier to handle but I guess that
>> there is no support for that i.e from the OS
>>
>> I wonder why it appears that VW is so much more sensitive, again in
>> Firefox it takes a very deliberate wheel button press action to
>> invoke the corresponding action i.e. the worm hole scrolling mode
>>
>> same mouse , different behavior and yes VW ought to behave like other
>> Windows apps do when in Windows
>>
>> in VW its very easy to bump into and more so when scrolling up with
>> the wheel
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:00:08 -0500, Alan Knight <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pretty sure that there is no wheel clicked event, and your wheel
>>> is generating a button 3 event, so disabling that is equivalent to
>>> disabling the use of the third button on three-button mice. And I
>>> don't think that would be well received. It might be possible to put
>>> in a setting in VisualWorks to ignore the third mouse button.
>>>
>>> At 01:35 PM 11/1/2006, Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>>>> well now, not sure if you have noticed but the wheel when actually
>>>> pressed i.e. not spun will turn into this wild looking cursor and it
>>>> allows you to do very cool hyper worm hole type of scrolling , so it
>>>> would be a real drag not to have that around, try it in something
>>>> like Acrobat, or certainly in browsers such as Firefox and Opera
>>>>
>>>> but what would be nice is to say hey that when in VisualWorks, and
>>>> especially since just because we have Travis around doesn't mean that
>>>> we will get worm hole scrolling anytime soon, to indeed deactivate
>>>> the "wheel pressed" event
>>>>
>>>> so please put that right behind my request to fix the other annoying
>>>> Opentalk ST-ST NAT issue :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:22:09 -0500, Alan Knight <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's a property of the mouse. Open your mouse properties and
>>>>> unassign the middle button. I think that's likely to require the
>>>>> mouse manufacturer's software rather than being in the generic
>>>>> Windows drivers. (I'm assuming you're using Windows).
>>>>>
>>>>> At 10:19 AM 11/1/2006, Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>>>>>> VW version: 7.4.1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when using the wheel mouse it is extremely easy for the blue button
>>>>>> menu to pop up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a patch for this somewhere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks in advance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Charles A. Monteiro
>>>>>> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
>>>>>> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
>>>>>> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alan Knight [|], Cincom Smalltalk Development [hidden email]
>>>>> [hidden email] http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
>>>>>
>>>>> "The Static Typing Philosophy: Make it fast. Make it right. Make it
>>>>> run." - Niall Ross
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Charles A. Monteiro
>>>> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
>>>> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
>>>> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alan Knight [|], Cincom Smalltalk Development [hidden email]
>>> [hidden email] http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
>>>
>>> "The Static Typing Philosophy: Make it fast. Make it right. Make it
>>> run." - Niall Ross
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --Charles A. Monteiro
> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
>
>

> Mark:
>
> you were the only that caught my middle finger symbology :) , dirty
> minds  think alike :)
>
> re: #5 as I said to Bob, yeah, its really not going to be a problem as
> far  our customers , I was just being difficult
>
>> Actually I second Bob's experience. in most of the development
>> windows  like browser the scroll works as advertised, very seldom
>> popping up the  menu.
>
>
> very seldom is not good enough :)
>
>> Acrobat 6.x ignore the whell click and just do scroll.
>
>
> well, I would rather say that the wheel press puts in scroll mode and
> that  a second wheel press toggles it off from scroll mode but whatever
>
>> But then what about newest bread of mice which do allow not only
>> scroll,  but also wiggle the wheel ?
>>
>
> cool ! unless you are playing with me? what is the wiggle used for?
>
> btw, I'm running Service Pack 1, are all of you commenting on service
> pack  2 or whatever?
>
> On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:08:28 -0500, Mark Pirogovsky  
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>> Don't give your middle finger to the group, even when they deserve
>> it   :-).
>>
>> Actually I second Bob's experience. in most of the development
>> windows  like browser the scroll works as advertised, very seldom
>> popping up the  menu.
>>
>>
>> The wormhole you are referring to is the special thing provided by
>> the  mouse drivers, in my case it is some kid of arrow.  and it is
>> appears to  be application specific behavior i.e.
>> in my case of the Ms Mouse and no special drives:
>> Netscape 7.2 ignores the click,
>> IE changes the shape of the cursor and goes to some kind of
>> scroll-drag  state
>> VW pops up a menu,
>> Acrobat 6.x ignore the whell click and just do scroll.
>> Other applications with scroll box does like the IE.
>>
>> I tried four different mices 2 of them Microsoft and two of the  
>> different  manufacturers.
>>
>> The bottom line:
>> 1. it is inconsistent across the different  applications,
>> 2. it does depend on what kind of the view (window control) is being used
>> 3. if the specific software for the mouse is installed ( logitech Vs.  
>> Microsoft for example) the behavior varies.
>> 4. It is not that easy to tell that the wheel click was intentional
>> or  not.  Possible solution to buffer few mouse events to see that the
>> click  does occur in the sequence of the rotations, then you probably
>> ??? can  ignore it.  But then what about newest bread of mice which do
>> allow not  only scroll, but also wiggle the wheel ?
>>
>> 5. you can instruct your controller to ignore the middle button event  
>> altogether - most of the modern windows applications don't recognize
>> it  anyway, so why bother
>>
>> --MArk
>>
>> Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>>
>>> nothing is too obvious :)
>>>  but yes I had the same problem with a micro wireless mouse here,
>>> have  not  checked any other tethered mouse
>>> reason being is that there are not too many mice around here and  
>>> secondly  I got the same problem at home when I hooked up a USB
>>> mouse  to my  notebook, I have not tried with my new computer which
>>> is  certainly an up  to date machine i.e. Core2 Duo 2.67mhz 2 gig ram
>>> but I  digress, I guess I  can install VW there although I have been
>>> resisting  putting any dev stuff  in there.
>>>  but here's the thing, imagine I'm your customer and I'm paying you
>>> a   zillion bucks for your software and I have this problem, I am
>>> then  told  you that I must buy new mice even though the old mice
>>> work  perfectly well  with the free open source Firefox browser and
>>> the free  non open source  Acrobat reader. Hmmm ....
>>>  BTW, I have noticed this for a while so perhaps I gave the wrong  
>>> impression that I just encountered this with 7.4.1 its just that I  
>>> finally  got annoyed enough to make a post
>>>  possibly the only thing that I have not switched is me. I seem to
>>> be  the  only common element in the equation. It is possible that I
>>> have a  strong  middle finger which I developed playing the classical
>>> guitar.  VW is also  probably more sensitive since again Firefox and
>>> Opera can  take my middle  finger.
>>>    On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 09:26:06 -0500, Bob Tucker  
>>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Charles, I am using VW 7.4.1 and can scroll with no problem using the
>>>> wheel on the my mouse. I have to noticeably press on the wheel to get
>>>> the blue menu.  I'm using a Microsoft IntelliMouse, so maybe there is
>>>> something shorting in the mouse itself.  Not to sound obvious, but have
>>>> you tried another mouse?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:08 AM
>>>> To: Samuel S. Shuster; Boris Popov
>>>> Cc: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: annoying wheel mouse isse
>>>>
>>>> nobody really said that it couldn't differentiate a wheel event and
>>>> Boris, yes, if I really, really try i.e. try spinning the mouse wheel
>>>> super fast in Opera I will get the strange scroll cursor but the point
>>>> is that first of all I should not try to scroll super fast because
>>>> that's why we have this "scroll" worm hole thing, secondly in VW I  
>>>> don't
>>>> have to try to spin the wheel super fast before I bump into that pop up
>>>> menu, my methods are not that long :) that require so much scrolling ,
>>>> so just normal wheel mouse walk in the park scrolling will bump into
>>>> that annoying menu, at least for me
>>>>
>>>> quite possibly those apps are doing something, its a sensitivity thing
>>>> which they have addressed
>>>>
>>>> what would be preferable would be to instead to jump into our own VW
>>>> worm hole scroller. It may be an easier implementation than to try to
>>>> build in some sort of tricky sensitivity scheme and its a pretty useful
>>>> feature
>>>>
>>>> our users by the way love that and would really like to see it on our
>>>> app
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:50:31 -0500, Samuel S. Shuster
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Boris,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry I'm just having hard time imagining how VisualWorks would
>>>>>> be responding to a blue-button-pressed event if it wasn't actually
>>>>>> being fired by the OS?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It can't. Period. The only way that VisualWorks gets a "Blue Button
>>>>> Pressed" event, is if the OS sends it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mouse Wheel events, on Windows come in as a totally different event,
>>>>> with its own OS event message ID and everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> The notion that VisualWorks somehow is unable to differentiate a Wheel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> event from a Button Pressed event, and may somehow mix them up is at
>>>>> best like believing in ghosts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, if someone is not running or has overridden the raw event
>>>>> dispatchers in VisualWorks, well, that's not so much Ghosts as it is
>>>>> Saboteurs.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                  And So It Goes
>>>>>                                       Sames
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Samuel S. Shuster [|]
>>>>> VisualWorks Engineering, GUI Project
>>>>> Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Charles A. Monteiro
>>>> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
>>>> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
>>>> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This message may contain confidential information and is intended
>>>> for   specific recipients unless explicitly noted otherwise. If you
>>>> have   reason to believe you are not an intended recipient of this
>>>> message,   please delete it and notify the sender. This message may
>>>> not  represent  the opinion of IntercontinentalExchange, Inc. (ICE),
>>>> its  subsidiaries or  affiliates, and does not constitute a contract
>>>> or  guarantee. Unencrypted  electronic mail is not secure and the  
>>>> recipient of this message is  expected to provide safeguards from  
>>>> viruses and pursue alternate means  of communication where privacy
>>>> or  a binding message is desired.
>>>>
>>>
>
>
>

> I am not sure about the exact wiggle functions - did not use it myself,  
> but the last time I walked the isles of the big computer store I've seen  
> a crop of new mice form MS, logitech, etc., which display something like  
> <- 0 -> on their mice around the wheel.  So it looks like -- one will be  
> able to scroll not only vertically by rotating the wheel, but also  
> horizontally, by wiggling it left and right.  Or probably you can assign  
> other type of behavior on the wiggle through the driver setup.
>
> --Mark
>
> P.S. as far as dirty minds, You'd be surprised to know that middle  
> finger doesn't mean a thing in many countries around the world, while  
> many other hand gestures, many americans use, could be very offensive in  
> some parts.
> Is anyone up to a challenge to create the "offensive gesture locale"  
> database, in the same way we have for the numbers, dates, etc. :-)
>
> Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>
>> Mark:
>>  you were the only that caught my middle finger symbology :) , dirty  
>> minds  think alike :)
>>  re: #5 as I said to Bob, yeah, its really not going to be a problem as  
>> far  our customers , I was just being difficult
>>
>>> Actually I second Bob's experience. in most of the development  
>>> windows  like browser the scroll works as advertised, very seldom  
>>> popping up the  menu.
>>   very seldom is not good enough :)
>>
>>> Acrobat 6.x ignore the whell click and just do scroll.
>>   well, I would rather say that the wheel press puts in scroll mode and  
>> that  a second wheel press toggles it off from scroll mode but whatever
>>
>>> But then what about newest bread of mice which do allow not only  
>>> scroll,  but also wiggle the wheel ?
>>>
>>  cool ! unless you are playing with me? what is the wiggle used for?
>>  btw, I'm running Service Pack 1, are all of you commenting on service  
>> pack  2 or whatever?
>>  On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:08:28 -0500, Mark Pirogovsky  
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Charles,
>>> Don't give your middle finger to the group, even when they deserve  
>>> it   :-).
>>>
>>> Actually I second Bob's experience. in most of the development  
>>> windows  like browser the scroll works as advertised, very seldom  
>>> popping up the  menu.
>>>
>>>
>>> The wormhole you are referring to is the special thing provided by  
>>> the  mouse drivers, in my case it is some kid of arrow.  and it is  
>>> appears to  be application specific behavior i.e.
>>> in my case of the Ms Mouse and no special drives:
>>> Netscape 7.2 ignores the click,
>>> IE changes the shape of the cursor and goes to some kind of  
>>> scroll-drag  state
>>> VW pops up a menu,
>>> Acrobat 6.x ignore the whell click and just do scroll.
>>> Other applications with scroll box does like the IE.
>>>
>>> I tried four different mices 2 of them Microsoft and two of the  
>>> different  manufacturers.
>>>
>>> The bottom line:
>>> 1. it is inconsistent across the different  applications,
>>> 2. it does depend on what kind of the view (window control) is being  
>>> used
>>> 3. if the specific software for the mouse is installed ( logitech Vs.  
>>> Microsoft for example) the behavior varies.
>>> 4. It is not that easy to tell that the wheel click was intentional  
>>> or  not.  Possible solution to buffer few mouse events to see that the  
>>> click  does occur in the sequence of the rotations, then you probably  
>>> ??? can  ignore it.  But then what about newest bread of mice which do  
>>> allow not  only scroll, but also wiggle the wheel ?
>>>
>>> 5. you can instruct your controller to ignore the middle button event  
>>> altogether - most of the modern windows applications don't recognize  
>>> it  anyway, so why bother
>>>
>>> --MArk
>>>
>>> Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> nothing is too obvious :)
>>>>  but yes I had the same problem with a micro wireless mouse here,  
>>>> have  not  checked any other tethered mouse
>>>> reason being is that there are not too many mice around here and  
>>>> secondly  I got the same problem at home when I hooked up a USB  
>>>> mouse  to my  notebook, I have not tried with my new computer which  
>>>> is  certainly an up  to date machine i.e. Core2 Duo 2.67mhz 2 gig ram  
>>>> but I  digress, I guess I  can install VW there although I have been  
>>>> resisting  putting any dev stuff  in there.
>>>>  but here's the thing, imagine I'm your customer and I'm paying you  
>>>> a   zillion bucks for your software and I have this problem, I am  
>>>> then  told  you that I must buy new mice even though the old mice  
>>>> work  perfectly well  with the free open source Firefox browser and  
>>>> the free  non open source  Acrobat reader. Hmmm ....
>>>>  BTW, I have noticed this for a while so perhaps I gave the wrong    
>>>> impression that I just encountered this with 7.4.1 its just that I  
>>>> finally  got annoyed enough to make a post
>>>>  possibly the only thing that I have not switched is me. I seem to  
>>>> be  the  only common element in the equation. It is possible that I  
>>>> have a  strong  middle finger which I developed playing the classical  
>>>> guitar.  VW is also  probably more sensitive since again Firefox and  
>>>> Opera can  take my middle  finger.
>>>>    On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 09:26:06 -0500, Bob Tucker  
>>>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Charles, I am using VW 7.4.1 and can scroll with no problem using the
>>>>> wheel on the my mouse. I have to noticeably press on the wheel to get
>>>>> the blue menu.  I'm using a Microsoft IntelliMouse, so maybe there is
>>>>> something shorting in the mouse itself.  Not to sound obvious, but  
>>>>> have
>>>>> you tried another mouse?
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Charles A. Monteiro [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:08 AM
>>>>> To: Samuel S. Shuster; Boris Popov
>>>>> Cc: [hidden email]
>>>>> Subject: Re: annoying wheel mouse isse
>>>>>
>>>>> nobody really said that it couldn't differentiate a wheel event and
>>>>> Boris, yes, if I really, really try i.e. try spinning the mouse wheel
>>>>> super fast in Opera I will get the strange scroll cursor but the  
>>>>> point
>>>>> is that first of all I should not try to scroll super fast because
>>>>> that's why we have this "scroll" worm hole thing, secondly in VW I  
>>>>> don't
>>>>> have to try to spin the wheel super fast before I bump into that pop  
>>>>> up
>>>>> menu, my methods are not that long :) that require so much scrolling  
>>>>> ,
>>>>> so just normal wheel mouse walk in the park scrolling will bump into
>>>>> that annoying menu, at least for me
>>>>>
>>>>> quite possibly those apps are doing something, its a sensitivity  
>>>>> thing
>>>>> which they have addressed
>>>>>
>>>>> what would be preferable would be to instead to jump into our own VW
>>>>> worm hole scroller. It may be an easier implementation than to try to
>>>>> build in some sort of tricky sensitivity scheme and its a pretty  
>>>>> useful
>>>>> feature
>>>>>
>>>>> our users by the way love that and would really like to see it on our
>>>>> app
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:50:31 -0500, Samuel S. Shuster
>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Boris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sorry I'm just having hard time imagining how VisualWorks would
>>>>>>> be responding to a blue-button-pressed event if it wasn't actually
>>>>>>> being fired by the OS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It can't. Period. The only way that VisualWorks gets a "Blue Button
>>>>>> Pressed" event, is if the OS sends it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mouse Wheel events, on Windows come in as a totally different event,
>>>>>> with its own OS event message ID and everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The notion that VisualWorks somehow is unable to differentiate a  
>>>>>> Wheel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> event from a Button Pressed event, and may somehow mix them up is at
>>>>>> best like believing in ghosts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, if someone is not running or has overridden the raw event
>>>>>> dispatchers in VisualWorks, well, that's not so much Ghosts as it is
>>>>>> Saboteurs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                  And So It Goes
>>>>>>                                       Sames
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Samuel S. Shuster [|]
>>>>>> VisualWorks Engineering, GUI Project
>>>>>> Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Charles A. Monteiro
>>>>> http://wiki.nycsmalltalk.org
>>>>> http://www.monteirosfusion.com
>>>>> http://monteirofusion.blogspot.com
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>>>>
>>