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bloc readiness for a simple mindmap

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Peter Uhnak

bloc readiness for a simple mindmap

Hi,

I wanted to ask about Bloc:

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
- elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
- connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

Thanks,
Peter

Peter Uhnak

How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Aliaksei Syrel

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Hi Peter

I wanted to ask about Bloc:

Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.

3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
- elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
- connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,

Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

I wanted to ask about Bloc:

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
- elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
- connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

Thanks,
Peter
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

Aliaksei Syrel

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of implementation process :)

Cheers,

Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 22:02, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Peter

I wanted to ask about Bloc:
Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
- elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
- connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I wanted to ask about Bloc:

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
- elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
- connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

Thanks,
Peter
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

Peter Uhnak

Re: [Moose-dev] Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

In reply to this post by Aliaksei Syrel

I'm happy to hear that.

I understand that Bloc is low-level, but I wanted to start getting familiar with it (Roassal3 should eventually be on top of it, so I need to understand the basics anyway).

> It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework
> that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted,
> especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement).

I am not sure how am I to interpret removal of BlText and BlTextElement. Does this mean that I would have to compose characters (is there BlCharacter) by myself? (I am not sure what the complexity implications are).

But I am happy that all the things are in place, so I can slowly (weeks, months) start playing with it.

Thanks!

Peter

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:02:28PM +0100, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:

> Hi Peter
>
> I wanted to ask about Bloc:
>
> Thanks for your interest :)
>
> 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever
> > are planned
>
>
> Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed
> with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in
> a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)
>
> 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom,
> > ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph
> > shape, etc.
>
> 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
>
>
> Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text
> images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or
> cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very
> good support of vector shapes and lines.
>
> The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
> > - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
> > - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements
>
>
> It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework
> that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted,
> especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc
> has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints
> on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to
> subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and
> override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can
> learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method
> comments in 'api' protocol.
>
> Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to
> all subclasses of BlElement.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
> On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I wanted to ask about Bloc:
> >
> > 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever
> > are planned
> > 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom,
> > ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph
> > shape, etc.
> > 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
> >
> > The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
> > - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
> > - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements
> >
> > To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.
> >
> > Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is
> > superfast (everything is happening instantly).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Peter
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moose-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
> >

> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

stepharong

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

In reply to this post by Aliaksei Syrel

Hi aliaksei

I would love to start to play with Bloc to build a game with boxes.

Now is there any tutorial that I can follow to get started?

Stef

We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of implementation process :)

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 22:02, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Peter

I wanted to ask about Bloc:
Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
- elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
- connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I wanted to ask about Bloc:

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
- elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
- connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

Thanks,
Peter
_______________________________________________
Moose-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Aliaksei Syrel

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of
> implementation process :)
>> The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap

Did you guys ever make any progress on this? I am very interested and would
like to participate if it becomes a team effort…

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Cheers,
Sean

Aliaksei Syrel

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Hi Sean,

Yes, the idea of a simple game in Bloc progressed in a tutorial and a booklet.

Here is the repo with all needed information and a link to the booklet:

https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Tutorials/

I highly recommend to do a step-by-step tutorial :)

It teaches how to create new elements, draw on canvas, compose elements and handle ui events.

Cheers,

Alex

On 25 November 2017 at 23:31, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of
> implementation process :)
>> The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap

Did you guys ever make any progress on this? I am very interested and would
like to participate if it becomes a team effort…

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Administrator

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Yes, the idea of a simple game in Bloc progressed in a tutorial and a
> booklet.

Thanks. I went through the tutorial and enjoyed it. My message was
specifically about a mind map implementation :)

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Cheers,
Sean

Aliaksei Syrel

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

No, mind map was not implemented :)

Cheers,

Alex

On 26 November 2017 at 00:01, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Yes, the idea of a simple game in Bloc progressed in a tutorial and a
> booklet.

Thanks. I went through the tutorial and enjoyed it. My message was
specifically about a mind map implementation :)

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Peter Uhnak

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

> Did you guys ever make any progress on this? I am very interested and would like to participate if it becomes a team effort…

Only recently I finally managed to get started with Bloc. But it is mostly experiments. Mindmap has currently no timeline. (But I will be eventually porting my OpenPonk to Bloc ... Mindmap could be a nice usecase).

Peter

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, mind map was not implemented :)

Cheers,
Alex

On 26 November 2017 at 00:01, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Yes, the idea of a simple game in Bloc progressed in a tutorial and a
> booklet.

Thanks. I went through the tutorial and enjoyed it. My message was
specifically about a mind map implementation :)

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Aliaksei

do we have support for lines?

Stef

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Did you guys ever make any progress on this? I am very interested and
>> would like to participate if it becomes a team effort…
>
> Only recently I finally managed to get started with Bloc. But it is mostly
> experiments. Mindmap has currently no timeline. (But I will be eventually
> porting my OpenPonk to Bloc ... Mindmap could be a nice usecase).
>
> Peter
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> No, mind map was not implemented :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alex
>>
>> On 26 November 2017 at 00:01, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>>> > Yes, the idea of a simple game in Bloc progressed in a tutorial and a
>>> > booklet.
>>>
>>> Thanks. I went through the tutorial and enjoyed it. My message was
>>> specifically about a mind map implementation :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sean
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>>>
>>
>

Tudor Girba-2

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Yes. They are supported since a long time.

Alex just added support for bezier curves. For example:
https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/934765444464021504

Doru

> On Nov 26, 2017, at 1:52 PM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Aliaksei
>
> do we have support for lines?
>
> Stef
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Did you guys ever make any progress on this? I am very interested and
>>> would like to participate if it becomes a team effort…
>>
>> Only recently I finally managed to get started with Bloc. But it is mostly
>> experiments. Mindmap has currently no timeline. (But I will be eventually
>> porting my OpenPonk to Bloc ... Mindmap could be a nice usecase).
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> No, mind map was not implemented :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On 26 November 2017 at 00:01, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>>>>> Yes, the idea of a simple game in Bloc progressed in a tutorial and a
>>>>> booklet.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I went through the tutorial and enjoyed it. My message was
>>>> specifically about a mind map implementation :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Sean
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle."

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Peter Uhnak

Peter Uhnák wrote
> Mindmap has currently no timeline. (But I will be eventually
> porting my OpenPonk to Bloc ... Mindmap could be a nice usecase).

I'd be happy to help. I've wanted a mind map (not only UI but with a real
model behind it) in Pharo for a loooong time. Also, OpenPonk looks very
impressive! I enjoyed the video on the webpage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gQgXdJyr-0

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Cheers,
Sean

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: [Moose-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2

thanks doru.

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes. They are supported since a long time.
>
> Alex just added support for bezier curves. For example:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/934765444464021504
>
> Doru
>
>
>
>> On Nov 26, 2017, at 1:52 PM, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Aliaksei
>>
>> do we have support for lines?
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Did you guys ever make any progress on this? I am very interested and
>>>> would like to participate if it becomes a team effort…
>>>
>>> Only recently I finally managed to get started with Bloc. But it is mostly
>>> experiments. Mindmap has currently no timeline. (But I will be eventually
>>> porting my OpenPonk to Bloc ... Mindmap could be a nice usecase).
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, mind map was not implemented :)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>> On 26 November 2017 at 00:01, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Aliaksei Syrel wrote
>>>>>> Yes, the idea of a simple game in Bloc progressed in a tutorial and a
>>>>>> booklet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I went through the tutorial and enjoyed it. My message was
>>>>> specifically about a mind map implementation :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Sean
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
> www.feenk.com
>
> "Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle."
>
>
>
>
>
>