building client/server apps / distributed apps in smalltalk

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building client/server apps / distributed apps in smalltalk

Sanjay Minni-5
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Re: building client/server apps / distributed apps in smalltalk

Nowak, Helge

Dear Sanjay,

 

this is the Cincom Smalltalk VisualWorks mailing list, not the Dolphin Smalltalk one ;-)

 

Yes, you can do what you are envisioning using Cincom Smalltalk VisualWorks. What you are looking at is a so called two-tier architecture: rich GUI clients and a database server.

 

You could alternatively implement more complex architectures like a three-tier or distributed architecture. What is reasonable depends on the specific (current and future) needs of your project.

 

The scalability depends on the implementation which depends on your needs. I. e. if you can already tell that down the road you won’t have 10 but 10000 users you should take that into account from the beginning.

 

Proxies are used in distributed architectures using Corba or similar technologies. In Cincom Smalltalk VisualWorks you have e. g. Opentalk to build distributed applications. Whether or not you’ll need Corba or Opentalk or Web Services or … depends on your requirements…

 

A 10 user application should be one of the simplest tasks. In VisualWorks you build your domain logic, connect it to the GUI using the ApplicationModel framework and persist the data in your (relational) database using EXDI and Glorp.

 

For a fast and risk free implementation you should acquire Smalltalk expertise for your project, e. g. by using external consultants.

 

HTH

Helge

 

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Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Sanjay Jain
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. August 2011 11:22
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: [vwnc] building client/server apps / distributed apps in smalltalk

 

I am looking for some guidance to approach this issue,

for a small desktop app with say 10 users over a LAN, I am planning to
put a "Data Server" which will actually manage the storage, update and
retrieval of data.

(this is so that we can tweak only this portion to adapt to any data
storage / file storage mechanism and also handle some specific rules
on copies / backup etc)

e.g. In Dolphin Smalltalk online help in Software Patterns>> New
Application under "Consequences" I find a discussion around client /
server models.

The questions we have are:
1. Is such a thing do-able / and will it be scaleable
2. Are any models / examples available to understand how it could
work
3. what are the key words we have to understand to create a solution
e.g. Sockets, ...
4. somewhere i read that there is something called proxy or that its
possible to build distributed systems in Dolphin / Smalltalk ... if
thats relevant

I know I may sound naive and vague but thanks for your patience and
please guide me into a track

regards
Sanjay


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Re: building client/server apps / distributed apps in smalltalk

jarober
In reply to this post by Sanjay Minni-5
Where I work, we have a large client/server application that serves many more users than you are talking about.  It's a "fat client" using an Oracle database as the back end.  The only "scaling" issues we've encountered have been of the "personal scaling" nature - i.e., making sure that naive queries to the database don't force a user to sit in front of a wait screen for eons.  

The Smalltalk part of this is making sure that (for maintenance purposes, mostly) you have an actual domain model - don't put all the code in the GUI.  For performance, make sure you have someone on the project who understands how to optimize the specific database you end up using.


On Aug 4, 2011, at 5:21 AM, Sanjay Jain wrote:

I am looking for some guidance to approach this issue,

for a small desktop app with say 10 users over a LAN, I am planning to
put a "Data Server" which will actually manage the storage, update and
retrieval of data.

(this is so that we can tweak only this portion to adapt to any data
storage / file storage mechanism and also handle some specific rules
on copies / backup etc)

e.g. In Dolphin Smalltalk online help in Software Patterns>> New
Application under "Consequences" I find a discussion around client /
server models.

The questions we have are:
1. Is such a thing do-able / and will it be scaleable
2. Are any models / examples available to understand how it could
work
3. what are the key words we have to understand to create a solution
e.g. Sockets, ...
4. somewhere i read that there is something called proxy or that its
possible to build distributed systems in Dolphin / Smalltalk ... if
thats relevant

I know I may sound naive and vague but thanks for your patience and
please guide me into a track

regards
Sanjay

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc



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Re: building client/server apps / distributed apps in smalltalk

Runar Jordahl
In reply to this post by Sanjay Minni-5
Consider using a simpler architecture. You need to write a lot of
complex infrastructure yourself if you want to make a desktop
three-tiered architecture in Smalltalk. I remember this was hot in the
late 1990s, but web interfaces changed the focus.

(If you really want such an architecture, you might consider DevForce,
but that is based on .Net. There you get a framework where all the
hard problems have been solved.)

Instead, consider there architectures:

- Fat-client: A central database with desktop client databases
connecting directly to the database. You might want to consider using
GemStone/S.
- Web solution: Look at Aida/Web and Seaside.

Runar
blog.epigent.com
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Re: building client/server apps / distributed apps in smalltalk

David Long @ gmail
We have a web server front end for three tiered architecture, all built using Smalltalk:

UML+ - Design tool - http://sageteagroup.com/cms/UML
(just released)
BizPro Application server (Smalltalk based server app with sql integration)
BizPro Web Server (Seaside front end / AJAX)

There is a free demo at this URL:
http://ottawa1.sageteagroup.com:8008/BizProLauncher
You can login to the demo using the download version of UML+

All the UIs are dynamically generated, and they can be customized further by adding your own Smalltalk scripts.

We are looking for new clients, and would be happy to setup your own free trial. You get an app server, web server and the UML tool - we will give you everything you need to get going.

regards,

David



On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Runar Jordahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
Consider using a simpler architecture. You need to write a lot of
complex infrastructure yourself if you want to make a desktop
three-tiered architecture in Smalltalk. I remember this was hot in the
late 1990s, but web interfaces changed the focus.

(If you really want such an architecture, you might consider DevForce,
but that is based on .Net. There you get a framework where all the
hard problems have been solved.)

Instead, consider there architectures:

- Fat-client: A central database with desktop client databases
connecting directly to the database. You might want to consider using
GemStone/S.
- Web solution: Look at Aida/Web and Seaside.

Runar
blog.epigent.com
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[hidden email]
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