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changing MC repository url display

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EstebanLM

changing MC repository url display

Hi,

So I have this problem… each time I open a MC browser I see something like this:

And as you can see… most important part of the repositories (the NAME) is hidded because window is small.

Of course, I can enlarge the screen to see the names, but that made me think the way the information is presented is not good (because the place, sthub, ss, ss3 or whatever) is less important than the repository name.

So I would like to change that to something like:

Pharo/Pharo40 (smalltalkhub.com)

Pharo/Pharo40Inbox (smalltalkhub.com)

Moose/Glamour (smalltalkhub.com)

./mc (filetree)

VMMaker (source.squeak.org)

… etc…

since this is a small change that has a huge visual impact, I would like to discuss it before.

So, what do you think?

Esteban

Thierry Goubier

Re: changing MC repository url display

Hi Esteban,

this is a good change, go on. And thanks for taking care of it!

Thierry

2014-11-24 14:09 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:

Hi,

So I have this problem… each time I open a MC browser I see something like this:

And as you can see… most important part of the repositories (the NAME) is hidded because window is small.
Of course, I can enlarge the screen to see the names, but that made me think the way the information is presented is not good (because the place, sthub, ss, ss3 or whatever) is less important than the repository name.
So I would like to change that to something like:

Pharo/Pharo40 (smalltalkhub.com)
Pharo/Pharo40Inbox (smalltalkhub.com)
Moose/Glamour (smalltalkhub.com)
./mc (filetree)
VMMaker (source.squeak.org)
… etc…

since this is a small change that has a huge visual impact, I would like to discuss it before.
So, what do you think?

Esteban

kilon.alios

Re: changing MC repository url display

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

to be fair the pharo windows in general are tiny. I can imagine them being ok on 1-2 decades old monitors but for modern monitors they are just too small. I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location . I would like now that pharo offers good support for git, separate icons for diffirent kinds of repos. Actually talking about icons I think I will start a new thread on it.

EstebanLM

Re: changing MC repository url display

yes you are right, but also you are digressing :)
my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is useless?

Esteban

> On 24 Nov 2014, at 14:54, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> to be fair the pharo windows in general are tiny. I can imagine them being ok on 1-2 decades old monitors but for modern monitors they are just too small. I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location . I would like now that pharo offers good support for git, separate icons for diffirent kinds of repos. Actually talking about icons I think I will start a new thread on it.

Thierry Goubier

Re: changing MC repository url display

In reply to this post by kilon.alios

2014-11-24 14:54 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <[hidden email]>:

to be fair the pharo windows in general are tiny. I can imagine them being ok on 1-2 decades old monitors but for modern monitors they are just too small.

For laptops monitors (i.e. the 1366x768 and 1440x900 that are fairly common), some are too large: Nautilus, GTPlayground.

(But for GTPlayground, it may be on purpose :))

Thierry

I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location . I would like now that pharo offers good support for git, separate icons for diffirent kinds of repos. Actually talking about icons I think I will start a new thread on it.

Tudor Girba-2

Re: changing MC repository url display

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

It will certainly help. Ideally, we should have this string displaying method in the MCRepository hierarchy.

Cheers,

Doru

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

yes you are right, but also you are digressing :)
my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is useless?

Esteban

> On 24 Nov 2014, at 14:54, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> to be fair the pharo windows in general are tiny. I can imagine them being ok on 1-2 decades old monitors but for modern monitors they are just too small. I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location . I would like now that pharo offers good support for git, separate icons for diffirent kinds of repos. Actually talking about icons I think I will start a new thread on it.

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Thierry Goubier

Re: changing MC repository url display

2014-11-24 15:20 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>:

It will certainly help. Ideally, we should have this string displaying method in the MCRepository hierarchy.

It already is in that hierarchy, along with the creation info and edit. Each repository type can customize it.

Thierry

Cheers,
Doru

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
yes you are right, but also you are digressing :)
my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is useless?

Esteban

> On 24 Nov 2014, at 14:54, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> to be fair the pharo windows in general are tiny. I can imagine them being ok on 1-2 decades old monitors but for modern monitors they are just too small. I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location . I would like now that pharo offers good support for git, separate icons for diffirent kinds of repos. Actually talking about icons I think I will start a new thread on it.

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

EstebanLM

Re: changing MC repository url display

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14523

and there is a SLICE there with an initial version but honestly, I’m not happy (names are still lost in the path).

of course, it would be better if we can add repository types in other font/size/color so they do not interfere, but that is a lot of work and I cannot tackle it now… if someone wants to take the glove. it would be super cool :)

(maybe is time to replace mc browser with glamour/spec version… I know there is an experimental spec version, which is broken)

Esteban

On 24 Nov 2014, at 15:23, Thierry Goubier <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-24 15:20 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>:
It will certainly help. Ideally, we should have this string displaying method in the MCRepository hierarchy.

It already is in that hierarchy, along with the creation info and edit. Each repository type can customize it.

Thierry

Cheers,
Doru

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
yes you are right, but also you are digressing :)
my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is useless?

Esteban

> On 24 Nov 2014, at 14:54, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> to be fair the pharo windows in general are tiny. I can imagine them being ok on 1-2 decades old monitors but for modern monitors they are just too small. I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location . I would like now that pharo offers good support for git, separate icons for diffirent kinds of repos. Actually talking about icons I think I will start a new thread on it.

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Thierry Goubier

Re: changing MC repository url display

2014-11-24 16:13 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14523

and there is a SLICE there with an initial version but honestly, I’m not happy (names are still lost in the path).
of course, it would be better if we can add repository types in other font/size/color so they do not interfere, but that is a lot of work and I cannot tackle it now… if someone wants to take the glove. it would be super cool :)

Not bad. File paths can be made logic or relative (~ instead of /Users/esteban), and we can have a small database of typical repository (http://smalltalkhub.com could be replaced by smalltalkhub).

Pharo/Pharo40(Smalltalkhub) is nice.

Or maybe reversed (Smalltalkhub)Pharo/Pharo40 (if you know that the window is large enough) because you can classify starting with the type.

I'll try to do the same on the gitfiletree entries (and it will apply on Pharo3 as well :)).

Thierry

(maybe is time to replace mc browser with glamour/spec version… I know there is an experimental spec version, which is broken)

Esteban

On 24 Nov 2014, at 15:23, Thierry Goubier <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-24 15:20 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>:
It will certainly help. Ideally, we should have this string displaying method in the MCRepository hierarchy.

It already is in that hierarchy, along with the creation info and edit. Each repository type can customize it.

Thierry

Cheers,
Doru

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
yes you are right, but also you are digressing :)
my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is useless?

Esteban

> On 24 Nov 2014, at 14:54, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> to be fair the pharo windows in general are tiny. I can imagine them being ok on 1-2 decades old monitors but for modern monitors they are just too small. I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location . I would like now that pharo offers good support for git, separate icons for diffirent kinds of repos. Actually talking about icons I think I will start a new thread on it.

--
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

kilon.alios

Re: changing MC repository url display

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

>> yes you are right, but also you are digressing :)
>> my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is useless?

is it not enough that I said " I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location " ?

My philosophy on GUI design is to keep it as simple as possible (noob friendly )and make as customisable as possible (experienced user friendly).

So in this case a section displaying paths can be made hidden by default and the user will be able to make it unhidden. This way none will complain or have a good reason to complain about the change and should not be difficult to implement.

I don't like the approach of monticello of "let put everything in a single GUI " , its near impossible to understand it without documentation and frankly its not that complex to justify this difficulty.

>> For laptops monitors (i.e. the 1366x768 and 1440x900 that are fairly common), some are too large: Nautilus,

>> GTPlayground.

>> (But for GTPlayground, it may be on purpose :))

I happen to have such a laptop the 2010 macbook air. Lets be sincere most coders have normal sided monitors (20''+ for desktop , 15''+ laptop) and a FULL HD resolution is the standard nowdays. I have an air but my main work is with retina 27'' 2013 imac. I use air when I am in the move or just in the bed before going to sleep hacking pharo.

I know coders that also love working with 2 monitors.

Its impossible to create a design that fits all unless the gui is highly dynamic like what modern websites are doing nowdays.

So there is definetly a lot of room for improvement on GUI design for Pharo and small size monitors is not the main reason to change the design. A good excuse would be as Stef puts it most of time "we dont have the people or the money to do this in the near future".

But even for me with retina display and 27'' the gui design is a big issues because I end up opening tons of pharo windows.

I hope I do my small part to help the overall gui experience with pharo and maybe others will join too to make "pharo is yours" reality.

Thierry Goubier

Re: changing MC repository url display

Le 24/11/2014 17:24, kilon alios a écrit :

> >> yes you are right, but also you are digressing :)
> >> my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is
> useless?
>
> is it not enough that I said " I think it makes sense to display only
> the name of the repository instead of its web location " ?
>
> My philosophy on GUI design is to keep it as simple as possible (noob
> friendly )and make as customisable as possible (experienced user friendly).
>
> So in this case a section displaying paths can be made hidden by default
> and the user will be able to make it unhidden. This way none will
> complain or have a good reason to complain about the change and should
> not be difficult to implement.

Honestly, I don't see the point (and I'm an expert). A shortened (but
complete) description is both good for the novice and the expert, it
makes the code simpler, it makes the GUI aesthetically pleasing, it
fasten the workflow of both novice and expert alike, and it helps the
novice to become an expert.

> I don't like the approach of monticello of "let put everything in a
> single GUI " , its near impossible to understand it without
> documentation and frankly its not that complex to justify this difficulty.

I'd say that the main problem of Monticello is on its left side, not on
the right...

> >> For laptops monitors (i.e. the 1366x768 and 1440x900 that are fairly
> common), some are too large: Nautilus,
>>> GTPlayground.
>
> >> (But for GTPlayground, it may be on purpose :))
>
> I happen to have such a laptop the 2010 macbook air. Lets be sincere
> most coders have normal sided monitors (20''+ for desktop , 15''+
> laptop) and a FULL HD resolution is the standard nowdays. I have an air
> but my main work is with retina 27'' 2013 imac. I use air when I am in
> the move or just in the bed before going to sleep hacking pharo.

I use that kind of setup (11.6" and 24"), but, still, in most laptops
you have to consider that they are stuck at 1366x768 (what is the market
share of retina macbooks?).

> > I know coders that also love working with 2 monitors.

I do, but they are hard to carry in a plane or in a train :P

> Its impossible to create a design that fits all unless the gui is highly
> dynamic like what modern websites are doing nowdays.

Well, we had the techno in GUI more than 20 years ago, but the web is
only now reinventing that (and badly at that).

> So there is definetly a lot of room for improvement on GUI design for
> Pharo and small size monitors is not the main reason to change the
> design. A good excuse would be as Stef puts it most of time "we dont
> have the people or the money to do this in the near future".

> But even for me with retina display and 27'' the gui design is a big
> issues because I end up opening tons of pharo windows.

And that's why I'd say if you make it ok to deal with multiple windows
on a 11"6 screen, then going to a 27" becomes pure bliss.

> I hope I do my small part to help the overall gui experience with pharo
> and maybe others will join too to make "pharo is yours" reality.

I'm certainly a good example of that. My Pharo is mine! (and I have an
IDE I like which is truly mine :P)

And I can only encourage you to do the same ;)

Thierry

sebastianconcept@gmail.co

Re: changing MC repository url display

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

It’s a good optimization

helps

On Nov 24, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

So I have this problem… each time I open a MC browser I see something like this:

<Screen Shot 2014-11-24 at 14.04.44.png>

And as you can see… most important part of the repositories (the NAME) is hidded because window is small.
Of course, I can enlarge the screen to see the names, but that made me think the way the information is presented is not good (because the place, sthub, ss, ss3 or whatever) is less important than the repository name.
So I would like to change that to something like:

Pharo/Pharo40 (smalltalkhub.com)
Pharo/Pharo40Inbox (smalltalkhub.com)
Moose/Glamour (smalltalkhub.com)
./mc (filetree)
VMMaker (source.squeak.org)
… etc…

since this is a small change that has a huge visual impact, I would like to discuss it before.
So, what do you think?

Esteban

Ben Coman

Re: changing MC repository url display

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> Hi,
>
> So I have this problem… each time I open a MC browser I see something
> like this:
>
>
> And as you can see… most important part of the repositories (the NAME)
> is hidded because window is small.
> Of course, I can enlarge the screen to see the names, but that made me
> think the way the information is presented is not good (because the
> place, sthub, ss, ss3 or whatever) is less important than the repository
> name.
> So I would like to change that to something like:
>
> Pharo/Pharo40 (smalltalkhub.com <http://smalltalkhub.com>)
> Pharo/Pharo40Inbox (smalltalkhub.com <http://smalltalkhub.com>)
> Moose/Glamour (smalltalkhub.com <http://smalltalkhub.com>)
> ./mc (filetree)
> VMMaker (source.squeak.org <http://source.squeak.org>)
> … etc…
>
> since this is a small change that has a huge visual impact, I would like
> to discuss it before.
> So, what do you think?
>
> Esteban
>

How would it look to just right justify the text?
cheers -ben

stepharo

Re: changing MC repository url display

In reply to this post by Thierry Goubier

Le 24/11/14 14:28, Thierry Goubier a écrit :

Hi Esteban,

this is a good change, go on. And thanks for taking care of it!

+1
Go ahead

Thierry

2014-11-24 14:09 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:

Hi,

So I have this problem… each time I open a MC browser I see something like this:

And as you can see… most important part of the repositories (the NAME) is hidded because window is small.

Of course, I can enlarge the screen to see the names, but that made me think the way the information is presented is not good (because the place, sthub, ss, ss3 or whatever) is less important than the repository name.

So I would like to change that to something like:

Pharo/Pharo40 (smalltalkhub.com)

Pharo/Pharo40Inbox (smalltalkhub.com)

Moose/Glamour (smalltalkhub.com)

./mc (filetree)

VMMaker (source.squeak.org)

… etc…

since this is a small change that has a huge visual impact, I would like to discuss it before.

So, what do you think?

Esteban

philippeback

Re: changing MC repository url display

Yes, that is very nice.

On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:12 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:

Le 24/11/14 14:28, Thierry Goubier a écrit :

Hi Esteban,

this is a good change, go on. And thanks for taking care of it!

+1
Go ahead

Thierry

2014-11-24 14:09 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:

Hi,

So I have this problem… each time I open a MC browser I see something like this:

And as you can see… most important part of the repositories (the NAME) is hidded because window is small.

Of course, I can enlarge the screen to see the names, but that made me think the way the information is presented is not good (because the place, sthub, ss, ss3 or whatever) is less important than the repository name.

So I would like to change that to something like:

Pharo/Pharo40 (smalltalkhub.com)

Pharo/Pharo40Inbox (smalltalkhub.com)

Moose/Glamour (smalltalkhub.com)

./mc (filetree)

VMMaker (source.squeak.org)

… etc…

since this is a small change that has a huge visual impact, I would like to discuss it before.

So, what do you think?

Esteban