Smalltalk › Pharo › Pharo Smalltalk Developers

class message

_‹ Previous Topic Next Topic _›

Classic

List

Threaded

26 messages Options

mmimica

class message

Hello!

What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?

--
Milan Mimica
http://sparklet.sf.net

Mariano Martinez Peck

Re: class message

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Milan Mimica <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello!

What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?

no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.

--
Milan Mimica
http://sparklet.sf.net

--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

mmimica

Re: class message

On 26 May 2012 20:32, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Milan Mimica <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello!

What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?

no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.

That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.

--
Milan Mimica
http://sparklet.sf.net

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: class message

>
> What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?
>
> no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
>
> That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.

:)
But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)
>
>
> --
> Milan Mimica
> http://sparklet.sf.net

Mariano Martinez Peck

Re: class message

In reply to this post by mmimica

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Milan Mimica <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 26 May 2012 20:32, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Milan Mimica <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello!

What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?

no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.

That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.

breaks? can you give us an example? beause it has to be something quite hacky or low level, has't it?

--
Milan Mimica
http://sparklet.sf.net

--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

mmimica

Re: class message

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

On 26 May 2012 20:53, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?
>
> no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
>
> That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.

:)
But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)

It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)

I would also suspect it breaks things like WriteBarrier and Magma and similar stuff performing magic.

--
Milan Mimica
http://sparklet.sf.net

Igor Stasenko

Re: class message

On 26 May 2012 20:59, Milan Mimica <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 26 May 2012 20:53, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3
>> > and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?
>> >
>> > no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is
>> > managed as a normal message send.
>> >
>> > That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.
>>
>> :)
>> But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class
>> should not break older code :)
>
>
> It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)
> I would also suspect it breaks things like WriteBarrier and Magma and
> similar stuff performing magic.

but how you can make an omelet without breaking eggs? :)

> --
> Milan Mimica
> http://sparklet.sf.net

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

Marcus Denker-4

Re: class message

In reply to this post by mmimica

On May 26, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Milan Mimica wrote:

> On 26 May 2012 20:53, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?
> >
> > no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
> >
> > That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.
>
> :)
> But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)
>
> It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)
> I would also suspect it breaks things like WriteBarrier and Magma and similar stuff performing magic.
>

normally it should do the opposite: as #class is not special, magic is much easier.

Marcus

--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Igor Stasenko

Re: class message

On 26 May 2012 22:10, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On May 26, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Milan Mimica wrote:
>
>> On 26 May 2012 20:53, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?
>> >
>> > no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
>> >
>> > That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.
>>
>> :)
>> But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)
>>
>> It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)
>> I would also suspect it breaks things like WriteBarrier and Magma and similar stuff performing magic.
>>
> normally it should do the opposite: as #class is not special, magic is much easier.
>

you have no trust, you're from academia :)

> Marcus

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: class message

In reply to this post by mmimica

> :)
> But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)
>
> It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)
> I would also suspect it breaks things like WriteBarrier and Magma and similar stuff performing magic.

How mockery used the fact that class was not a send message?

Stef

Denis Kudriashov

Re: class message

In reply to this post by mmimica

Hello

2012/5/26 Milan Mimica <[hidden email]>

On 26 May 2012 20:53, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> What has changed in implementation "class" message in between Pharo 1.3 and 1.4? Is it compiled inline now or something like that?
>
> no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
>
> That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.

:)
But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)

It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)

Thank's for report.
Try to fix it today.
Now I dont know how #class message can broke something. When I found answer I try to explain

Best regards,
Denis

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: class message

> > no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
> >
> > That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.
>
> :)
> But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)
>
> It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)
>
> Thank's for report.
> Try to fix it today.
> Now I dont know how #class message can broke something. When I found answer I try to explain

Thanks denis.
I'm curious too.

Stef

Denis Kudriashov

Re: class message

I found problem.

Proxy classes in SMock and Mocketry are subclasses of ProtoObject which not implements #class.
But proxy classes use "self class" in some methods (like #printOn: implementation).

I add #class implementation from Object to ProtoObject and all SMock and Mocketry tests become green.

So questions:
Is ProtoObject should implement #class?
Can we move #class method from Object to ProtoObject?

2012/5/27 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>

> > no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
> >
> > That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.
>
> :)
> But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)
>
> It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)
>
> Thank's for report.
> Try to fix it today.
> Now I dont know how #class message can broke something. When I found answer I try to explain

Thanks denis.
I'm curious too.

Stef

Mariano Martinez Peck

Re: class message

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

I found problem.

Proxy classes in SMock and Mocketry are subclasses of ProtoObject which not implements #class.
But proxy classes use "self class" in some methods (like #printOn: implementation).

I add #class implementation from Object to ProtoObject and all SMock and Mocketry tests become green.

So questions:
Is ProtoObject should implement #class?
Can we move #class method from Object to ProtoObject?

ups....good catch! indeed, we should move it to ProtoObject.

2012/5/27 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>

> > no, the other way around, now #class is NOT bytecoded, and therefore is managed as a normal message send.
> >
> > That is much better. Thanks! I like progress even if it breaks old code.
>
> :)
> But we always try to minimize else we would go much faster and btw class should not break older code :)
>
> It did break Mocketry (http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry)
>
> Thank's for report.
> Try to fix it today.
> Now I dont know how #class message can broke something. When I found answer I try to explain

Thanks denis.
I'm curious too.

Stef

--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

mmimica

Re: class message

In reply to this post by Denis Kudriashov

On 27 May 2012 11:02, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

I add #class implementation from Object to ProtoObject and all SMock and Mocketry tests become green.

Yes, that fixes any problems I can think of with it.

Otherwise #class ends up in #doesNotUnderstand which is special for proxy objects...

--
Milan Mimica
http://sparklet.sf.net

Igor Stasenko

Re: class message

In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck

On 27 May 2012 11:40, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I found problem.
>>
>> Proxy classes in SMock and Mocketry are subclasses of ProtoObject which
>> not implements #class.
>> But proxy classes use "self class" in some methods (like #printOn:
>> implementation).
>>
>> I add #class implementation from Object to ProtoObject and all SMock and
>> Mocketry tests become green.
>>
>> So questions:
>> Is ProtoObject should implement #class?
>> Can we move #class method from Object to ProtoObject?
>>
>
> ups....good catch! indeed, we should move it to ProtoObject.
>

mm.. why?
the more we put to ProtoObject, the more it looks like Object.
at some point you will see not difference between them, and then
someone will come
with a brilliant idea of having one more "clean" class ahead - ProtoProtoObject.

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

Mariano Martinez Peck

Re: class message

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 27 May 2012 11:40, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I found problem.
>>
>> Proxy classes in SMock and Mocketry are subclasses of ProtoObject which
>> not implements #class.
>> But proxy classes use "self class" in some methods (like #printOn:
>> implementation).
>>
>> I add #class implementation from Object to ProtoObject and all SMock and
>> Mocketry tests become green.
>>
>> So questions:
>> Is ProtoObject should implement #class?
>> Can we move #class method from Object to ProtoObject?
>>
>
> ups....good catch! indeed, we should move it to ProtoObject.
>

mm.. why?

Because ALL objects do have a class. Right? if you want to change the semantics of #class then just subclass and change it.
This is not the real reason, but in addition because since previously #class used to have a special bytecode, it means it was understood by "everybody". So at least with this we don't break anything.
For me it does not make sense to get a #dnu for #class when the object really has a class.

the more we put to ProtoObject, the more it looks like Object.
at some point you will see not difference between them, and then
someone will come
with a brilliant idea of having one more "clean" class ahead - ProtoProtoObject.

You cannot tell that to me ;) I was the one who spent 2 days to remove all the 10 menthods tryNamedPrimitive* from ProtoObject.

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Douglas Brebner

Re: class message

On 27/05/2012 13:46, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>
> Because ALL objects do have a class. Right?

Wasn't one of the reasons for ProtoObject to enable building non-class
(e.g. prototype) object systems?

Mariano Martinez Peck

Re: class message

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Douglas Brebner <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 27/05/2012 13:46, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:

Because ALL objects do have a class. Right?

Wasn't one of the reasons for ProtoObject to enable building non-class (e.g. prototype) object systems?

I don't know. I though it was for proxies because Object included already too much messages.

--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Denis Kudriashov

Re: class message

In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck

Ok.

Now I just fix SMock by adding #class method.
And I publish new ConfigurationOfMocketry to squeaksource/MetacelloRepository.
All tests green