Hello,
I'm a Software Developer& Configuration Manager at Rudolph Technologies, formerly Adventa. We are in the process of porting one of our product lines to 7.7.1 (almost finished porting to 7.7 when 7.7.1 became available). We have several hundred bundles and in those bundles nearly a thousand packages. We produce many types of images with each of our product builds, most of which have a common set of bundles, and then a unique set on top of that. We also produce a single image that contains the entire code base (codebase image). All of these images make up the framework-product and are subsequently all delivered. This product is a framework. Since our customers do development on-top of our framework, it is imperative we CM the entire code base we deliver, therefore we capture each image's bundle set into a special 'image bundle' and publish that back to store as well as save this off in the image. Also, the entire code base set of bundles is captured into a larger bundle within our full codebase image (a transport mechanism used to deliver the source code). In most of our typical bundles there are 1 to 6 packages . Some bundles contain a dozen packages and a few contain 20 or so packages. None of our typical bundles have subbundles. Our special 'image level' bundles (which are generated with each formal build) contain only a large set of subbundles. An 'image level' bundle captures the bundles which were loaded to produce the image. This bundle is a configuration record for the image. Here's what should be a clearer picture: Image1 bundle BaseBundle (actually many) ToolsBundle UIBundle + other bundles Image2 Bundle BaseBundle (actually many) ToolsBundle IOBundle + other bundles Codebase Bundle BaseBundle ToolsBundle UIBundle IOBundle Image1 bundle ... Image2 bundle ... This is very simplistic, but you should get the picture. Ok... hopefully that was understandable, now on to my problem.... How can I compare our large image-level bundles using the new diff browser??? This was easily do-able in 7.7 and before. I saw a similar thing discussed on the thread "vw7.7.1 New Style UI". Can we PLEASE get back (and keep) a bundle difference tool that produces nothing but a list of differing things the bundle contains, and no additional details below that? A UI that has drill down capability, similar to what we had before? Even comparing a bundle that has a dozen or more packages with many changes is not do-able using the new differences browser... consider an image level bundle with several hundred packages and subbundles. Is there a way to toggle on the "Old Style Difference Browsers" somewhere? If we must keep only the new differences browsers, is there a way to toggle on-off the level of details (such as bundle level, package level, class level and then method level)? Thanks much, -Steve _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Steve, I share that frustration. Using "Settings" to turn off Store "Use New Compare Tool" helps gets closer to earlier comparison browsers, but even those have problems. The browsers lack useful menu options. You can see differences, but you
end up doing a lot of copy-paste searching to find and modify code. The BundleDifferenceBrowser is the window you miss; however it is gone. VW 7.7.1 still has the ability to browse changes in a single package with the older (feature rich) browsers. You may
have to add a menu option to get to those older browsers though. The 7.7.1 comparison browsers are nice that they provide a package grouping (something that I'd asked for); however, not the way it is implemented. The groupings are too much "in your face" requiring you to click on many things just
to find a few changes. This is the kind of view I'd offered as an example. This is the code browser used for GemKit to browse/maintain GemStone code from VW. As you can see, it also is written to do a fair job with code from Store (because I could). It is fast. It provides a dynamic view (the left filter column
disappears if there aren't meaningful groups to select). Just today I was porting it to VW 7.7.1 and enhancing it to make it more suited to take the place of the new VW 7.7.1 browsers that we find frustrating. I'm not saying that these browsers are an ideal replacement (they weren't intended to be); however, they are useful and demonstrate a browser design that I'd hoped Cincom would adopt. If you are interested in trying this browser than
you can find it in the Cincom Public Repository. I'll post the latest version (GbcManagement 4.0 018.0) shortly. The latest version has changes to make it compatible with VW 7.7.1 but is still early in testing. Paul Baumann -----Original Message----- Hello, I'm a Software Developer& Configuration Manager at Rudolph Technologies, formerly Adventa. We are in the process of porting one of our product lines to 7.7.1 (almost finished porting to 7.7 when 7.7.1 became available). We have several hundred bundles and in those bundles nearly a thousand packages. We produce many types of images with each of our product builds, most of which have a common set of bundles, and then a unique set on top of that. We also produce a single image that contains the entire code base (codebase image). All of these images make up the framework-product and are subsequently all delivered. This product is a framework. Since our customers do development on-top of our framework, it is imperative we CM the entire code base we deliver, therefore we capture each image's bundle set into a special 'image bundle' and publish that back to store as well as save this off in the image. Also, the entire code base set of bundles is captured into a larger bundle within our full codebase image (a transport mechanism used to deliver the source code). In most of our typical bundles there are 1 to 6 packages . Some bundles contain a dozen packages and a few contain 20 or so packages. None of our typical bundles have subbundles. Our special 'image level' bundles (which are generated with each formal build) contain only a large set of subbundles. An 'image level' bundle captures the bundles which were loaded to produce the image. This bundle is a configuration record for the image. Here's what should be a clearer picture: Image1 bundle BaseBundle (actually many) ToolsBundle UIBundle + other bundles Image2 Bundle BaseBundle (actually many) ToolsBundle IOBundle + other bundles Codebase Bundle BaseBundle ToolsBundle UIBundle IOBundle Image1 bundle ... Image2 bundle ... This is very simplistic, but you should get the picture. Ok... hopefully that was understandable, now on to my problem.... How can I compare our large image-level bundles using the new diff browser??? This was easily do-able in 7.7 and before. I saw a similar thing discussed on the thread "vw7.7.1 New Style UI". Can we PLEASE get back (and keep) a bundle difference tool that produces nothing but a list of differing things the bundle contains, and no additional details below that? A UI that has drill down capability, similar to what we had before? Even comparing a bundle that has a dozen or more packages with many changes is not do-able using the new differences browser... consider an image level bundle with several hundred packages and subbundles. Is there a way to toggle on the "Old Style Difference Browsers" somewhere? If we must keep only the new differences browsers, is there a way to toggle on-off the level of details (such as bundle level, package level, class level and then method level)? Thanks much, -Steve _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc This message may contain confidential information and is intended for specific recipients unless explicitly noted otherwise. If you have reason to believe you are not an intended recipient of this message, please delete it and notify the sender. This message may not represent the opinion of IntercontinentalExchange, Inc. (ICE), its subsidiaries or affiliates, and does not constitute a contract or guarantee. Unencrypted electronic mail is not secure and the recipient of this message is expected to provide safeguards from viruses and pursue alternate means of communication where privacy or a binding message is desired. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
In reply to this post by Steve Whitson
I have to second this:
Sorry, but for everyday work where you have bundles with hundreds of packages it is of no use to see thousands of changed methods :( The new difference browser is nice if you compare one package (although I don't know why the grey background color instead of white). But you need a bundle difference browser as in VW7.7 if you have to find out what changed between different bundles, and this means which package versions are used in these version, not which methods changed... Regards, Magnus Am 28.09.2010 18:28, schrieb Steve Whitson: > Hello, > > I'm a Software Developer& Configuration Manager at Rudolph > Technologies, formerly Adventa. We are in the process of porting one of > > our product lines to 7.7.1 (almost finished porting to > 7.7 when 7.7.1 became available). > > We have several hundred bundles and in those bundles nearly a thousand > packages. We produce many types of images with each of our product > builds, most of which have a common set of bundles, and then a unique > set on top of that. We also produce a single image that contains the > entire code base (codebase image). All of these images make up the > framework-product and are subsequently all delivered. > > This product is a framework. Since our customers do development on-top > of our framework, it is imperative we CM the entire code base we > deliver, therefore we capture each image's > bundle set into a special 'image bundle' and publish that back to store > as well as save this off in the image. Also, the entire code base set > of bundles is captured into a larger bundle within our full codebase > image (a transport mechanism used to deliver the source code). > > In most of our typical bundles there are 1 to 6 packages . Some bundles > > contain a dozen packages and a few contain 20 or so packages. None of > our typical bundles have subbundles. Our special 'image level' bundles > (which are generated with each formal build) contain only a large set of > > subbundles. An 'image level' bundle captures the bundles which were > loaded to produce the image. This bundle is a configuration record for > the image. > > Here's what should be a clearer picture: > > Image1 bundle > BaseBundle (actually many) > ToolsBundle > UIBundle + other bundles > > Image2 Bundle > BaseBundle (actually many) > ToolsBundle > IOBundle + other bundles > > Codebase Bundle > BaseBundle > ToolsBundle > UIBundle > IOBundle > Image1 bundle > ... > Image2 bundle > ... > > This is very simplistic, but you should get the picture. > > Ok... hopefully that was understandable, now on to my problem.... > > How can I compare our large image-level bundles using the new diff > browser??? This was easily do-able in 7.7 and before. > > I saw a similar thing discussed on the thread "vw7.7.1 New Style UI". > > Can we PLEASE get back (and keep) a bundle difference tool that produces > > nothing but a list of differing things the bundle contains, and no > additional details below that? A UI that has drill down capability, > similar to what we had before? > > Even comparing a bundle that has a dozen or more packages with many > changes is not do-able using the new differences browser... consider an > image level bundle with several hundred packages and subbundles. > > Is there a way to toggle on the "Old Style Difference Browsers" > somewhere? If we must keep only the new differences browsers, is there > a way to toggle on-off the level of details (such as bundle level, > package level, class level and then method level)? > > Thanks much, > -Steve > > _______________________________________________ > vwnc mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc > > vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
In reply to this post by Steve Whitson
yes, there's a setting in the Store page of the settings. It's called
"Use New Compare Tool" and it's checked by default. Karsten Steve Whitson schrieb: > Is there a way to toggle on the "Old Style Difference Browsers" > somewhere? If we must keep only the new differences browsers, is there > a way to toggle on-off the level of details (such as bundle level, > package level, class level and then method level)? > -- Karsten Kusche - Dipl. Inf. - [hidden email] Georg Heeg eK - Köthen Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Dortmund A 12812 _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Karsten, we need the old bundle difference tool - with the option
unchecked you just get another package difference tool ... Magnus Am 29.09.2010 12:21, schrieb Karsten: > yes, there's a setting in the Store page of the settings. It's called > "Use New Compare Tool" and it's checked by default. > > Karsten > > > > Steve Whitson schrieb: >> Is there a way to toggle on the "Old Style Difference Browsers" >> somewhere? If we must keep only the new differences browsers, is there >> a way to toggle on-off the level of details (such as bundle level, >> package level, class level and then method level)? >> > vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
In reply to this post by Steve Whitson
My reply sent yesterday didn't make it to the list, but was received by Steve. I'm resending but without the screenshot... From: Paul Baumann
Steve, I share that frustration. Using "Settings" to turn off Store "Use New Compare Tool" helps gets closer to earlier comparison browsers, but even those have problems. The browsers lack useful menu options. You can see differences, but you
end up doing a lot of copy-paste searching to find and modify code. The BundleDifferenceBrowser is the window you miss; however it is gone. VW 7.7.1 still has the ability to browse changes in a single package with the older (feature rich) browsers. You may
have to add a menu option to get to those older browsers though. The 7.7.1 comparison browsers are nice that they provide a package grouping (something that I'd asked for); however, not the way it is implemented. The groupings are too much "in your face" requiring you to click on many things just
to find a few changes. This is the kind of view I'd offered as an example. <screenshot removed> This is the code browser used for GemKit to browse/maintain GemStone code from VW. As you can see, it also is written to do a fair job with code from Store (because I could). It is fast. It provides a dynamic view (the left filter column
disappears if there aren't meaningful groups to select). Just today I was porting it to VW 7.7.1 and enhancing it to make it more suited to take the place of the new VW 7.7.1 browsers that we find frustrating. I'm not saying that these browsers are an ideal replacement (they weren't intended to be); however, they are useful and demonstrate a browser design that I'd hoped Cincom would adopt. If you are interested in trying this browser than
you can find it in the Cincom Public Repository. I'll post the latest version (GbcManagement 4.0 018.0) shortly. The latest version has changes to make it compatible with VW 7.7.1 but is still early in testing. Paul Baumann -----Original Message----- Hello, I'm a Software Developer& Configuration Manager at Rudolph Technologies, formerly Adventa. We are in the process of porting one of our product lines to 7.7.1 (almost finished porting to 7.7 when 7.7.1 became available). We have several hundred bundles and in those bundles nearly a thousand packages. We produce many types of images with each of our product builds, most of which have a common set of bundles, and then a unique set on top of that. We also produce a single image that contains the entire code base (codebase image). All of these images make up the framework-product and are subsequently all delivered. This product is a framework. Since our customers do development on-top of our framework, it is imperative we CM the entire code base we deliver, therefore we capture each image's bundle set into a special 'image bundle' and publish that back to store as well as save this off in the image. Also, the entire code base set of bundles is captured into a larger bundle within our full codebase image (a transport mechanism used to deliver the source code). In most of our typical bundles there are 1 to 6 packages . Some bundles contain a dozen packages and a few contain 20 or so packages. None of our typical bundles have subbundles. Our special 'image level' bundles (which are generated with each formal build) contain only a large set of subbundles. An 'image level' bundle captures the bundles which were loaded to produce the image. This bundle is a configuration record for the image. Here's what should be a clearer picture: Image1 bundle BaseBundle (actually many) ToolsBundle UIBundle + other bundles Image2 Bundle BaseBundle (actually many) ToolsBundle IOBundle + other bundles Codebase Bundle BaseBundle ToolsBundle UIBundle IOBundle Image1 bundle ... Image2 bundle ... This is very simplistic, but you should get the picture. Ok... hopefully that was understandable, now on to my problem.... How can I compare our large image-level bundles using the new diff browser??? This was easily do-able in 7.7 and before. I saw a similar thing discussed on the thread "vw7.7.1 New Style UI". Can we PLEASE get back (and keep) a bundle difference tool that produces nothing but a list of differing things the bundle contains, and no additional details below that? A UI that has drill down capability, similar to what we had before? Even comparing a bundle that has a dozen or more packages with many changes is not do-able using the new differences browser... consider an image level bundle with several hundred packages and subbundles. Is there a way to toggle on the "Old Style Difference Browsers" somewhere? If we must keep only the new differences browsers, is there a way to toggle on-off the level of details (such as bundle level, package level, class level and then method level)? Thanks much, -Steve _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc This message may contain confidential information and is intended for specific recipients unless explicitly noted otherwise. If you have reason to believe you are not an intended recipient of this message, please delete it and notify the sender. This message may not represent the opinion of IntercontinentalExchange, Inc. (ICE), its subsidiaries or affiliates, and does not constitute a contract or guarantee. Unencrypted electronic mail is not secure and the recipient of this message is expected to provide safeguards from viruses and pursue alternate means of communication where privacy or a binding message is desired. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
In reply to this post by Magnus Schwarz
If you set the option, you get something that does show you
the list of which packages are different between the two versions. As
does the new compare tool. Obviously this does not suit everyone, and
what would be most useful is examples of how specifically you use the
previous tool. As Travis mentioned previously, screencasts are often more
helpful than descriptions.
If you need the textual comparison of the packages listed - perhaps because it comes up faster, or because you want to see the complete list of everything contained, rather than just the list of what's different, the class from previous versions is not included in the image, but will work if filed in. It's one class - BundleDifferenceBrowser, with 11 methods, as the functionality is not complicated. The Compare Packages won't work, because it's expecting to be opening browsers that only compare one package at a time, but that would not be difficult to change. Or, for the quick and dirty version of same using the newer tools, do | bundleName versions session bundles view | bundleName := 'Glorp'. versions := #( '7.8 - 1001' '7.8 - 1011'). session := StoreLoginFactory currentStoreSession. bundles := versions collect: [:eachVersion | view := SideBySideTextComparisonView new. view leftText: bundles first describeContents rightText: bundles last describeContents. ScheduledWindow new component: view; openWithExtent: 800@600. That doesn't have the button to compare packages at all, so to do that you'd need to add a button, or just do something like packages := Store.AbstractTool compareBundle: bundle1 with: bundle2. packages do: [:each | ComparePackages compareFromAll: (Array with: each first) toAll: (Array with: each last)]. or, if you really like the old ugly browsers for packages packages do: [:each | ComparisonBrowser comparePackage: each first toPackage: each last]. Doing it for image bundles you'd need to do Store.Registry bundleNamed: bundleName At 06:40 AM 2010-09-29, Magnus Schwarz wrote: Karsten, we need the old bundle difference tool - with the option --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
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As always Alan, thanks for your feedback.
I did pass on to Travis a screen capture of how I'd expect the differences browser to operate. Travis please let me know if you did not receive it. The 'new - old style' differences tool (you called 'Compare Packages') does seem to do the trick for the most part (I'm surprised you said it doesn't). One thing it is missing is more clues to bundle structure. It is difficult to tell a parent bundle from a sub-bundle (indentation or something is needed here), but aside from that, the list is fairly concise. I did notice some bugs, but looking past bugs... and bundle structure aside... it is a nice change. I do like seeing pundle property differences in this Compare Packages tool, and also that it only shows differences, rather than everything contained in the bundle... and it does drill down, something the prior BundleDifferenceBrowser didn't do so gracefully. Granted there are times I want to see the entire list of package-versions (both changed and identical) but just those that changed is what I'm usually after. Thanks much, -Steve On 9/29/2010 7:36 PM, Alan Knight wrote: If you set the option, you get something that does show you the list of which packages are different between the two versions. As does the new compare tool. Obviously this does not suit everyone, and what would be most useful is examples of how specifically you use the previous tool. As Travis mentioned previously, screencasts are often more helpful than descriptions. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Ok, after sending this I see what you mean by 'Compare Packages'...
the button in the old 'BundleDifferenceBrowser' won't work since the
browsers are no longer present.
On 9/29/2010 10:06 PM, Steve Whitson wrote: As always Alan, thanks for your feedback. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
In reply to this post by Steve Whitson
On Sep 29, 2010, at 8:06 PM, Steve Whitson wrote:
> As always Alan, thanks for your feedback. > > I did pass on to Travis a screen capture of how I'd expect the > differences browser to operate. Travis please let me know if you > did not receive it. I did receive it. And, I sent you one back too, please let me know if you got mine. And let me thank you publicly, for actually taking the time to do so. It was about 1000 times more informative than a whole raft of emails could have ever been. -- Travis Griggs Objologist "It had better be a pretty good meeting, to be better than no meeting at all" - Boyd K Packer _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
In reply to this post by Steve Whitson
Actually, the old package comparison browsers are present,
as one of the code fragments I posted uses them. The reason that button
would fail is just that the old browsers expected to be given single
package versions, and both of the newer ones take collections, so the
call sites now pass collections. It would be easy enough to adapt that,
either to invoke the old ones properly, or to pass a collection and use
the new ones if you were looking for code differences.
And thanks for the feedback. At 11:37 PM 2010-09-29, Steve Whitson wrote: Ok, after sending this I see what you mean by 'Compare Packages'... the button in the old 'BundleDifferenceBrowser' won't work since the browsers are no longer present. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
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