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do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it missing from workspace menu

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mstram-2

do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it missing from workspace menu

Somehow I've lost the do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it section from workspace menus.

I installed the Magma packages and was trying to do the FishStore->Magma tutorial on the wiki.

I guess I'll resinstall Magma on a backup of my image, but I'd like to know how I lost those items or .. how to build them from scratch onto a new menu. I'm looking through the wiki about morph's and morph menu's and have been looking through the system trying to see how debug / inspect an existing menu, but I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment.

This is only day 3 (hour ~20) of getting into Squeak / Seaside :) I've programmed with other languages / environments, but never with Smalltalk and am getting frustrated trying to "battle" the interface for the simplest things.

Mike

mstram-2

Re: do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it missing from workspace menu

mstram wrote

Somehow I've lost the do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it section from workspace menus.

Well for anyone else you might run into this problem, I had turned on "novice" mode :) .... which although I admittedly am, it makes it hard (impossible ??) to evaluate any code in a workspace <g>.

Mike

K. K. Subramaniam

Re: do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it missing from workspace menu

In reply to this post by mstram-2

On Saturday 19 May 2007 2:56 am, mstram wrote:
> This is only day 3 (hour ~20) of getting into Squeak / Seaside :) I've
> programmed with other languages / environments, but never with Smalltalk
> and am getting frustrated trying to "battle" the interface for the simplest
> things.
Squeak is really a beast for beginners because its paradigm is very different.
Missing and outdated docs and links add to the confusion. I arrived at the
following tips to get around:
1. Squeak image is like a 'software computer' - an entire computer, not just
an IDE. The 'quit' doesn't shutdown, it only suspends this computer and the
vm resumes it from where you left off next time you start it. Objects created
in this image can live on for years! This soft computer even crashes like a
real one. I always work with copies of images when experimenting with it.
2. Commands take the form "<subject> <verb> .." instead of the usual "<verb>
<subject>". Though, this sounds simple, it takes some time to switch mental
models from imperative mode to message sends.
3. Most tutorials exhort beginners to "doIt". Please don't. Use "debugIt", so
you can see trace the execution and learn a lot from it. Tracing something
even as simple as "3+4" can be very illuminating as it takes you through
compiler, string conversions, primitive calls and so on. After a few hours
browsing code, DNU pop-ups are no longer scary :-(. Morphs (like menus) can
be traced by using the debug halo item.
4. I find the "explain" menu item very handy while browsing code (e.g. Is
SoundPlayer a class or a variable?). It is buried one level deep in content
menu :-(. I also make liberal use of "implementors of" and "senders of" to
understand the larger context.
5. The "browse protocol" is another useful menu item listing all messages
(including inherited ones) for an object. Here again, the most useful
category, '--all--', comes in the end :-(.

Hope this helps .. Subbu
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mstram-2

Re: do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it missing from workspace menu

Hi Subbu,

Thanks for the great tips ! .. and for taking an interest.

I don't know if you saw my follow up message, but thanks to some helpful
people on IRC #squeak, I was reminded that I had turned on "novice" mode.

The "VM" paradigm is both interesting and frustrating. I really do actually
"digging" around and it's neat that you can trace / debug / browse
everything on the system. Squeak suffers from the same-old open source
curse though that I've found with just about ever other o.s. package ...
lack of good documentation.

For example, I've been also playing with Ruby / Ruby on Rails, and .. though
admittedly an isolated case, their is no comparison for the documentation
for their "Intro / Newbie web appication compared to what I found for the
Magma database on the Wiki. The OmniBasse docs look better, but my first
attempt at installing it into Squeak 3.9-7067 have so far failed, I'll try
an older image.

You sound like you've been programming with Smalltalk for awhile :) I've
done some programming with a lot of languages but I'm not a real "hard core"
programmer.

Have you done anything with Seaside / web/remote programming in general?
Have you used SeasideHosting (www.seasidehosting.st) ?

In the Seaside image there is a remote browser that lets you change classes
/etc remotely, I'd like to setup a remote "workspace" where I could issue
commands to my image over the internet, especially since I'm on dialup, and
my image is ~25meg !

I'm looking at the seaside classes and the looking for that remote browser
class ,and also the "native" "doit" command to try to cobble something
together, but any tips you can offer (including a "that's not possible"
would be great. I'll take a look on SqueakMap and see if it's already been
done.

ttyl

Mike

I tried to get a smaller image (seaside2.6) running there but haven't had
much luck yet.

>From: subbukk <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the most basic
>questionsabout Squeak." <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Newbies] do it, print it, inspect it, explore it,debug it
>missing from workspace menu
>Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 12:17:19 +0530
>
>On Saturday 19 May 2007 2:56 am, mstram wrote:
> > This is only day 3 (hour ~20) of getting into Squeak / Seaside :) I've
> > programmed with other languages / environments, but never with Smalltalk
> > and am getting frustrated trying to "battle" the interface for the
>simplest
> > things.
>Squeak is really a beast for beginners because its paradigm is very
>different.
>Missing and outdated docs and links add to the confusion. I arrived at the
>following tips to get around:
>1. Squeak image is like a 'software computer' - an entire computer, not
>just
>an IDE. The 'quit' doesn't shutdown, it only suspends this computer and the
>vm resumes it from where you left off next time you start it. Objects
>created
>in this image can live on for years! This soft computer even crashes like a
>real one. I always work with copies of images when experimenting with it.
>2. Commands take the form "<subject> <verb> .." instead of the usual
>"<verb>
><subject>". Though, this sounds simple, it takes some time to switch mental
>models from imperative mode to message sends.
>3. Most tutorials exhort beginners to "doIt". Please don't. Use "debugIt",
>so
>you can see trace the execution and learn a lot from it. Tracing something
>even as simple as "3+4" can be very illuminating as it takes you through
>compiler, string conversions, primitive calls and so on. After a few hours
>browsing code, DNU pop-ups are no longer scary :-(. Morphs (like menus) can
>be traced by using the debug halo item.
>4. I find the "explain" menu item very handy while browsing code (e.g. Is
>SoundPlayer a class or a variable?). It is buried one level deep in content
>menu :-(. I also make liberal use of "implementors of" and "senders of" to
>understand the larger context.
>5. The "browse protocol" is another useful menu item listing all messages
>(including inherited ones) for an object. Here again, the most useful
>category, '--all--', comes in the end :-(.
>
>Hope this helps .. Subbu
>_______________________________________________
>Beginners mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners

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K. K. Subramaniam

Re: do it, print it, inspect it, explore it, debug it missing from workspace menu

On Saturday 19 May 2007 5:50 pm, Mike Stramba wrote:
> Hi Subbu,
> Thanks for the great tips ! .. and for taking an interest.
You are welcome. I am glad you found them helpful.

> For example, I've been also playing with Ruby / Ruby on Rails, and ..
> ....
> You sound like you've been programming with Smalltalk for awhile :) I've
> done some programming with a lot of languages but I'm not a real "hard
> core" programmer.
I started using Squeak only a few months back, though I have been in systems
and network programming for over two decades. The learning curve in Squeak is
a bit steep because of two reasons a) it is not just an IDE but a whole
computing env (like GNU/Linux) and, b) It suffers from extreme monoculture -
it is 100% Smalltalk. So frameworks take much longer to develop and get into
the basic image.

But once you get past the initial misdirections and hurdles, it is a nice
environment to "think" in.

> Have you done anything with Seaside / web/remote programming in general?
> Have you used SeasideHosting (www.seasidehosting.st) ?
So far, I haven't strayed much beyond the core classes and Morphic in Squeak,
so I am afraid I can't help you much. But there are many others in its
mailing list who could help you out.

Enjoy .. Subbu
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mstram-2

more Squeak exploring and Dolphin, Magma, Omnibase

Hi Subbu,

I'm plowing along in the Smalltalk / Squeak .. and now Dolphin jungle :)

http://www.object-arts.com/content/navigation/products/dce.html

If you haven't heard of it, they have a really nice free version with very
good DOCUMENTATION, that I've been using along with Squeak to try to get up
to speed.

I've been trying to figure out Magma and Omnibase in Squeak, as I'm trying
to get database connectivity working. Have you done anything with
databases in Squeak? I'm very frustrated with the lack of docs for both of
those db, about to look for other ones or more info on maybe the Squeak
mailing list.

Dolphin has a nice implemantion of WELL DOCUMENTED api's for database
connectivity that works out the box. I have it working with ODBC -> mdb
(access databases), but am having a problem with MYSQL ... something to do
with my user / host combination. I can connect fine through comand line
tools or PHP scripts, but the Dolphin stuff seems to be adding my "real"
host (i.e. "internet connection" instead of localhost. Any idea of what
the problem might be ?

ttyl

Mike

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K. K. Subramaniam

Re: more Squeak exploring and Dolphin, Magma, Omnibase

On Sunday 20 May 2007 9:25 pm, Mike Stramba wrote:
> Hi Subbu,
>
> I'm plowing along in the Smalltalk / Squeak .. and now Dolphin jungle :)
>
> http://www.object-arts.com/content/navigation/products/dce.html
>
> If you haven't heard of it, they have a really nice free version with very
> good DOCUMENTATION, that I've been using along with Squeak to try to get up
> to speed.
No, I haven't used Dolphin. I do most of my work on Linux.

> I've been trying to figure out Magma and Omnibase in Squeak, as I'm trying
> to get database connectivity working. Have you done anything with
> databases in Squeak? I'm very frustrated with the lack of docs for both
> of those db, about to look for other ones or more info on maybe the Squeak
> mailing list.
No :-(. You could try asking in the squeak-dev mailing lists.

> ,, but the Dolphin stuff seems to be adding my "real"
> host (i.e. "internet connection" instead of localhost. Any idea of what
> the problem might be ?
Difficult for me to say. But in your place, I would start looking at hosts
file and see if the ipaddress and hostnames are mapped correctly. Try using
raw ip addresses to see if the problem is in the hosts file or elsewhere.

Hope this helps .. Subbu

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cedreek

Re: more Squeak exploring and Dolphin, Magma, Omnibase

2007/5/20, subbukk <[hidden email]>:

> HI cdrick thanks for your reply
> i will tell you in detail.
> This is the actual DAML sentence (input) given to the XMLParser
> <daml:Class rdf:ID = "Person">
> <rdfs:subClassOf rdf:resource = "#Animal" />
> <rdfs:subClassOf>
> <daml:Restriction>
> <daml:onProperty rdf:resource = "#hasParent" />
> <daml:toClass rdf:resource = "#Person" />
> </daml:Restriction>
> </rdfs:subClassOf>
> </daml:Class>
> <person rdf:ID = "Joe">
> <hasParent rdf:resource = "#John"/>
> </person>
>
>
> Iam parsing this using the code | stream |
> [
> | tree |
> stream := FileStream fileNamed: 'test.daml'.
> tree := XMLDOMParser parseDocumentFrom: stream.
> tree elements collect: [:each| each name].
> ] ensure: [stream close].
>
> >From the above code, "tree elements collect: [:each | each name]." actually collects the root elements. for example from the above example it collects <daml:class> and <person>. My aim is to collect all the elements including attributes and attribute values from that parsed tree in a sequeanceable order.

show us the result you'd like for the example sentence...
> After collecting it in a sequence i have to store it in a variable, so that i can check with that elements with other conditions.

Not sure (and not expert), but I think you should use the SAXParser so
that you navigate the xml tree and do whatever you want with
elements/attributes... The DOMParser is actually building a full tree
for further exploration... can be long and you have to process it
again to get more information... I dit that once to collect wheteher
data for a large xml file... The process is maybe not obvious, you
need to subclass SAXHandler with say DAMLHandler, where you'll
redefine messages likes characters: startDocument: endElement:
startElement:attribute:list:... but the better is probably to
subclass, then you put a self halt in the method
startDocument: and little by little you see how it works... Also,
you'll probably have to create a class where you'll store the
information you want (Meteo class in my case...)...
Sorry, but I cannot help you more on this... really busy for some monthes :'(

Cédrick

ps: I joined my meteo handlers, of course it won't work but it will
give you another example of SAXHandler (that the XMLDOMParser which is
a particular case of SAXHandler)... sorry for the bad code :p

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cedreek

Re: more Squeak exploring and Dolphin, Magma, Omnibase

sorry, wrong post ... ;) forget the previous mail...
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