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github-cache organisation

Ben Coman
Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github hosted project.

After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760, which uses repository...
   github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository

...I see file "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"  
sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in one of the cache folders.

cheers -ben
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Re: github-cache organisation

kilon.alios
The zip is not needed and it should be deleted after extraction cause it serves no role. This create a problem also because if you try to install agin the repo it won't redownload the zip , instead it will use the same zip. For me this make little sense because in the vast majority of cases your intention would be to download the repo version containing the latest commit. There is a command to do this though. Personally I don't like this behavior.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 at 06:41, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github hosted project.

After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760, which uses repository...
   github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository

...I see file "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"  
sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in one of the cache folders.

cheers -ben
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Re: github-cache organisation

Peter Uhnak
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 06:54:03AM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> The zip is not needed and it should be deleted after extraction cause it
> serves no role. This create a problem also because if you try to install
> agin the repo it won't redownload the zip , instead it will use the same
> zip. For me this make little sense because in the vast majority of cases
> your intention would be to download the repo version containing the latest
> commit. There is a command to do this though. Personally I don't like this
> behavior.

This is a different problem: http://forum.world.st/how-to-update-monticello-cypress-repository-downloaded-from-github-tp4906782p4906801.html

Furthermore, deleting the file would have no effect on this, because the relevant part is what is in the unzipped folder.

Peter

> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 at 06:41, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
> > hosted project.
> >
> > After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
> > which uses repository...
> >    github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
> >
> > ...I see file
> > "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
> > sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
> > when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in
> > one of the cache folders.
> >
> > cheers -ben
> >

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Re: github-cache organisation

kilon.alios
I don't have the problem you have, if I issue the command to redownload the zip it does so and it installs it's code fine. At least the last time I checked with my ChronosManager project to make sure everything works as expected few months ago.

Also it does not change the fact that the zip is useless once extracted.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 at 10:08, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 06:54:03AM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> The zip is not needed and it should be deleted after extraction cause it
> serves no role. This create a problem also because if you try to install
> agin the repo it won't redownload the zip , instead it will use the same
> zip. For me this make little sense because in the vast majority of cases
> your intention would be to download the repo version containing the latest
> commit. There is a command to do this though. Personally I don't like this
> behavior.

This is a different problem: http://forum.world.st/how-to-update-monticello-cypress-repository-downloaded-from-github-tp4906782p4906801.html

Furthermore, deleting the file would have no effect on this, because the relevant part is what is in the unzipped folder.

Peter

> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 at 06:41, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
> > hosted project.
> >
> > After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
> > which uses repository...
> >    github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
> >
> > ...I see file
> > "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
> > sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
> > when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in
> > one of the cache folders.
> >
> > cheers -ben
> >

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Re: github-cache organisation

Mariano Martinez Peck
In reply to this post by Ben Coman


On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:40 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github hosted project.

After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760, which uses repository...
   github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository

...I see file "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"  
sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in one of the cache folders.


Hi Ben,

Just to say I very much hate that as well. Even more when I have specified the github cache location and seems to be ignored...

 

--
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Re: github-cache organisation

Dale Henrichs-3
In reply to this post by Ben Coman
Ben,

I think I've found the bug ... Metacello intends that the zip file be
downloaded to /tmp, but the code as implemented 3 years ago for Pharo
was not actually downloading the file to /tmp ... thanks for pointing
this out, I've created a Metacello issue for this[1] ... I will probably
fix this shortly, but I'm not sure when (or if) my fix will be
integrated into the Pharo-5.0 release.

Dale

[1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/issues/404

On 07/21/2016 08:40 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

> Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
> hosted project.
>
> After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
> which uses repository...
>    github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
>
> ...I see file
> "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
> sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
> when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed
> in one of the cache folders.
>
> cheers -ben


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Re: github-cache organisation

Dale Henrichs-3
In reply to this post by kilon.alios


On 07/21/2016 11:54 PM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> The zip is not needed and it should be deleted after extraction cause
> it serves no role.
Agreed --- I've submitted a Metacello issue for this[1

[1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/issues/406
> This create a problem also because if you try to install agin the repo
> it won't redownload the zip , instead it will use the same zip.
I don't believe that this is true ... the zip file is not the culprit.
the Metacello GitHub code does not re-download the zip file because the
cache directory already exists ... As pointed out by Peter you need to
use the `get` message to inform Metacello that you want the GitHub repo
to be refreshed[1] ...

[1]
http://forum.world.st/how-to-update-monticello-cypress-repository-downloaded-from-github-tp4906782p4906801.html)

> For me this make little sense because in the vast majority of cases
> your intention would be to download the repo version containing the
> latest commit.
Except when you don't want it downloaded --- the download times can be
significant and I chose the explicit download as the default.
> There is a command to do this though. Personally I don't like this
> behavior.

if you always want to download a fresh version of the repo from github,
then use `get; load` and you will be happy :)

Dale

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Re: github-cache organisation

Dale Henrichs-3
In reply to this post by kilon.alios


On 07/22/2016 12:13 AM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
I don't have the problem you have, if I issue the command to redownload the zip it does so and it installs it's code fine. At least the last time I checked with my ChronosManager project to make sure everything works as expected few months ago.

I'd be interested to know exactly what you are doing here ... the Smalltalk expressions that you are using, because what you are saying does not match my understanding of how Metacello works, so I assume that I am not correctly guessing what you are doing.

Dale
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Re: github-cache organisation

Dale Henrichs-3
In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
Mariano,

Could you describe this a bit more  ... what expression are you using to "specify the github cache location"?

If you want you can open a Metacello issue and work through details there...

Dale

On 07/22/2016 07:58 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:


On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:40 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github hosted project.

After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760, which uses repository...
   github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository

...I see file "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"  
sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in one of the cache folders.


Hi Ben,

Just to say I very much hate that as well. Even more when I have specified the github cache location and seems to be ignored...

 

--

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Re: github-cache organisation

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Dale Henrichs-3
> On 07/21/2016 08:40 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>
>> Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
>> hosted project.
>>
>> After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
>> which uses repository...
>>    github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
>>
>> ...I see file
>> "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
>> sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
>> when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in
>> one of the cache folders.
>>
>> cheers -ben
>
>
>

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Dale Henrichs
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> I think I've found the bug ... Metacello intends that the zip file be
> downloaded to /tmp, but the code as implemented 3 years ago for Pharo was
> not actually downloading the file to /tmp ... thanks for pointing this out,
> I've created a Metacello issue for this[1] ... I will probably fix this
> shortly, but I'm not sure when (or if) my fix will be integrated into the
> Pharo-5.0 release.

Cool. Thanks Dale.  I created issues for Pharo 5 & 6 to track this our end.
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18804
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18805

cheers -ben

P.S.@All  curious why "Area=divers" for "Project=Metacello"

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Re: github-cache organisation

Dale Henrichs-3


On 07/22/2016 11:19 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

>> On 07/21/2016 08:40 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>> Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
>>> hosted project.
>>>
>>> After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
>>> which uses repository...
>>>     github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
>>>
>>> ...I see file
>>> "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
>>> sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
>>> when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in
>>> one of the cache folders.
>>>
>>> cheers -ben
>>
>>
> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Dale Henrichs
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>> I think I've found the bug ... Metacello intends that the zip file be
>> downloaded to /tmp, but the code as implemented 3 years ago for Pharo was
>> not actually downloading the file to /tmp ... thanks for pointing this out,
>> I've created a Metacello issue for this[1] ... I will probably fix this
>> shortly, but I'm not sure when (or if) my fix will be integrated into the
>> Pharo-5.0 release.
> Cool. Thanks Dale.  I created issues for Pharo 5 & 6 to track this our end.
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18804
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18805
>
> cheers -ben
>
> P.S.@All  curious why "Area=divers" for "Project=Metacello"
>
>
Ben,

Sorry ... I gave you the wrong issue # for this one ... I opened 3 new
issues for this message and only 2 of them applied directly '#405:
Github .zip download not downloaded to `/tmp` as expected ... Pharo-5.0'
and '#406: Github .zip download file should be deleted after archive is
extracted' ... #404 is not really an issue, since the pid is meant for
disambiguation of the file name, which is exactly the same thing that is
supposed to be done by FileReference class>>newTempFilePrefix:suffix: ...

Too many windows floating around:)

Dale

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Re: github-cache organisation

Mariano Martinez Peck
In reply to this post by Dale Henrichs-3


On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mariano,

Could you describe this a bit more  ... what expression are you using to "specify the github cache location"?


Hi Dale,



If you want you can open a Metacello issue and work through details there...

Dale


On 07/22/2016 07:58 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:


On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:40 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github hosted project.

After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760, which uses repository...
   github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository

...I see file "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"  
sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed in one of the cache folders.


Hi Ben,

Just to say I very much hate that as well. Even more when I have specified the github cache location and seems to be ignored...

 

--




--
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Re: github-cache organisation

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Dale Henrichs-3
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 2:29 AM, Dale Henrichs
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On 07/22/2016 11:19 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>
>>> On 07/21/2016 08:40 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
>>>> hosted project.
>>>>
>>>> After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
>>>> which uses repository...
>>>>     github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
>>>>
>>>> ...I see file
>>>> "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
>>>> sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
>>>> when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed
>>>> in
>>>> one of the cache folders.
>>>>
>>>> cheers -ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Dale Henrichs
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> I think I've found the bug ... Metacello intends that the zip file be
>>> downloaded to /tmp, but the code as implemented 3 years ago for Pharo was
>>> not actually downloading the file to /tmp ... thanks for pointing this
>>> out,
>>> I've created a Metacello issue for this[1] ... I will probably fix this
>>> shortly, but I'm not sure when (or if) my fix will be integrated into the
>>> Pharo-5.0 release.
>>
>> Cool. Thanks Dale.  I created issues for Pharo 5 & 6 to track this our
>> end.
>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18804
>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18805
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>> P.S.@All  curious why "Area=divers" for "Project=Metacello"
>>
>>
> Ben,
>
> Sorry ... I gave you the wrong issue # for this one ... I opened 3 new
> issues for this message and only 2 of them applied directly '#405: Github
> .zip download not downloaded to `/tmp` as expected ... Pharo-5.0' and '#406:
> Github .zip download file should be deleted after archive is extracted' ...
> #404 is not really an issue, since the pid is meant for disambiguation of
> the file name, which is exactly the same thing that is supposed to be done
> by FileReference class>>newTempFilePrefix:suffix: ...
>
> Too many windows floating around:)
>
> Dale
>

@All, btw in the pharo-project swimlane here [1] it would be nice to
have a branch tagged "Pharo5.0" showing the point that was integrated
into Pharo 5.
cheers -ben

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Re: github-cache organisation

Dale Henrichs-3


On 7/22/16 8:02 PM, Ben Coman wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 2:29 AM, Dale Henrichs
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 07/22/2016 11:19 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>> On 07/21/2016 08:40 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>>> Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
>>>>> hosted project.
>>>>>
>>>>> After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
>>>>> which uses repository...
>>>>>      github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
>>>>>
>>>>> ...I see file
>>>>> "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
>>>>> sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
>>>>> when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed
>>>>> in
>>>>> one of the cache folders.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers -ben
>>>>
>>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Dale Henrichs
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I think I've found the bug ... Metacello intends that the zip file be
>>>> downloaded to /tmp, but the code as implemented 3 years ago for Pharo was
>>>> not actually downloading the file to /tmp ... thanks for pointing this
>>>> out,
>>>> I've created a Metacello issue for this[1] ... I will probably fix this
>>>> shortly, but I'm not sure when (or if) my fix will be integrated into the
>>>> Pharo-5.0 release.
>>> Cool. Thanks Dale.  I created issues for Pharo 5 & 6 to track this our
>>> end.
>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18804
>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18805
>>>
>>> cheers -ben
>>>
>>> P.S.@All  curious why "Area=divers" for "Project=Metacello"
>>>
>>>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Sorry ... I gave you the wrong issue # for this one ... I opened 3 new
>> issues for this message and only 2 of them applied directly '#405: Github
>> .zip download not downloaded to `/tmp` as expected ... Pharo-5.0' and '#406:
>> Github .zip download file should be deleted after archive is extracted' ...
>> #404 is not really an issue, since the pid is meant for disambiguation of
>> the file name, which is exactly the same thing that is supposed to be done
>> by FileReference class>>newTempFilePrefix:suffix: ...
>>
>> Too many windows floating around:)
>>
>> Dale
>>
> @All, btw in the pharo-project swimlane here [1] it would be nice to
> have a branch tagged "Pharo5.0" showing the point that was integrated
> into Pharo 5.
> cheers -ben
>
Ben ... are you missing an url for [1]? I'm afraid I have no idea what a
"pharo-project swimlane" is.

As an aside, when these bugs are fixed in Metacello the fixes will apply
to Pharo3.0, Pharo4.0, Pharo5.0, and Pharo6.0 ...

Dale

Dale

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Re: github-cache organisation

Ben Coman
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Dale Henrichs
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On 7/22/16 8:02 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 2:29 AM, Dale Henrichs
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/22/2016 11:19 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/21/2016 08:40 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a general observation and first impression of installing a github
>>>>>> hosted project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After installing OSSubprocess from the Catalog Browser on Pharo 50760,
>>>>>> which uses repository...
>>>>>>      github://marianopeck/OSSubProcess:v0.2.4/repository
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...I see file
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "github--marianopeckOSSubprocessv0241266307023333901887488330764830.zip"
>>>>>> sitting next to my .image file.  That would seem to dirty up that area
>>>>>> when I start to use git more often.  I'd expect that file to be placed
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> one of the cache folders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers -ben
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Dale Henrichs
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I've found the bug ... Metacello intends that the zip file be
>>>>> downloaded to /tmp, but the code as implemented 3 years ago for Pharo
>>>>> was
>>>>> not actually downloading the file to /tmp ... thanks for pointing this
>>>>> out,
>>>>> I've created a Metacello issue for this[1] ... I will probably fix this
>>>>> shortly, but I'm not sure when (or if) my fix will be integrated into
>>>>> the
>>>>> Pharo-5.0 release.
>>>>
>>>> Cool. Thanks Dale.  I created issues for Pharo 5 & 6 to track this our
>>>> end.
>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18804
>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?18805
>>>>
>>>> cheers -ben
>>>>
>>>> P.S.@All  curious why "Area=divers" for "Project=Metacello"
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> Sorry ... I gave you the wrong issue # for this one ... I opened 3 new
>>> issues for this message and only 2 of them applied directly '#405: Github
>>> .zip download not downloaded to `/tmp` as expected ... Pharo-5.0' and
>>> '#406:
>>> Github .zip download file should be deleted after archive is extracted'
>>> ...
>>> #404 is not really an issue, since the pid is meant for disambiguation of
>>> the file name, which is exactly the same thing that is supposed to be
>>> done
>>> by FileReference class>>newTempFilePrefix:suffix: ...
>>>
>>> Too many windows floating around:)
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>> @All, btw in the pharo-project swimlane here [1] it would be nice to
>> have a branch tagged "Pharo5.0" showing the point that was integrated
>> into Pharo 5.
>> cheers -ben
>>
> Ben ... are you missing an url for [1]? I'm afraid I have no idea what a
> "pharo-project swimlane" is.

Whoops. Yes.
[1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/network

and from that you probably know or guess what a swimlane is, but to be clear...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swim_lane

cheers -ben

>
> As an aside, when these bugs are fixed in Metacello the fixes will apply to
> Pharo3.0, Pharo4.0, Pharo5.0, and Pharo6.0 ...

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Re: github-cache organisation

Dale Henrichs-3


On 7/23/16 6:51 AM, Ben Coman wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Dale Henrichs
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/22/16 8:02 PM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry ... I gave you the wrong issue # for this one ... I opened 3 new
>>>> issues for this message and only 2 of them applied directly '#405: Github
>>>> .zip download not downloaded to `/tmp` as expected ... Pharo-5.0' and
>>>> '#406:
>>>> Github .zip download file should be deleted after archive is extracted'
>>>> ...
>>>> #404 is not really an issue, since the pid is meant for disambiguation of
>>>> the file name, which is exactly the same thing that is supposed to be
>>>> done
>>>> by FileReference class>>newTempFilePrefix:suffix: ...
>>>>
>>>> Too many windows floating around:)
>>>>
>>>> Dale
>>>>
>>> @All, btw in the pharo-project swimlane here [1] it would be nice to
>>> have a branch tagged "Pharo5.0" showing the point that was integrated
>>> into Pharo 5.
>>> cheers -ben
>>>
>> Ben ... are you missing an url for [1]? I'm afraid I have no idea what a
>> "pharo-project swimlane" is.
> Whoops. Yes.
> [1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/network
>
> and from that you probably know or guess what a swimlane is, but to be clear...
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swim_lane
I thought perhaps that the "pharo-project swimlane" had something to do
with the "divers" over on FogBugz and thought that there was some sort
of swimming themed development going on in Pharo land:)

The master branch of Metacello includes code for all supported
platforms, so I'm not sure what you want a "swimlane" for ... unless you
are referring to the fact that there is no way to tell what commit  has
actually been integrated into the PharoX.0 builds - then I agree. It
would also be nice if the latest commit on the master branch was
automatically integrated into the Pharo builds ...

Dale