hello and a flood of questions..

hi, all..

i have decided that i am going to learn seaside this week, and convert  
a few scripts that i always use (and want a web interface for).. as i  
get into this, i find that i have a ton of questions.. so i will start  
now..

so.. for my first trick..

where does my data live?

i find that in developing with something like rails, i constantly look  
at my data in some form of mysql viewer..

how do i view my data sets with seaside.. and is this even an issue?

___
peace,
sergio
photographer, journalist, visionary
www.village-buzz.com



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Hi Sergio

> i have decided that i am going to learn seaside this week, and convert a few
> scripts that i always use (and want a web interface for).. as i get into
> this, i find that i have a ton of questions.. so i will start now..

Welcome to the Seaside!

> where does my data live?
>
> i find that in developing with something like rails, i constantly look at my
> data in some form of mysql viewer..
>
> how do i view my data sets with seaside.. and is this even an issue?

Sorry for not replying back to you earlier. There was an outage of the
box where the mailing-list is hosted and we don't have control over
this machine. Normally questions are answered much faster.

Anyway, we are back and I am taking a go at your first question. I am
sure others will chime in and answer the other questions.

By default data lives in an image, that is essentially a snapshot of
the memory. As long as you don't close this image without saving, the
objects are persistent. You can inspect them using an object
inspector. Simply send the message #inspect to any object to see its
inner state. Send the message #browse to it to see the code defined in
its class.

Maybe you want to have a look at this book:
<http://squeakbyexample.org/>. It should give you a general view of
the ideas behind Smalltalk.

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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Have you tried the tutorial from the Hasso-Plattner Institute? Their tutorial will answer many of your questions, on a more or less basic level. The short answer is that during development, if you save your image assiduously, you can keep all of your data just in objects in your image. Then, broadly speaking, schema migration falls away as an issue during that period.



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Hi Sergio,

Welcome to Seaside.

To save your data you have several options. Most familiar (probably)  
would be a relational database. For this you should consider GLORP, a  
library that  loads into Smalltalk and talks to the RDB for you. Next,  
for simple data you could store things in the file system (text, XML,  
etc.). The most elegant solution (if you aren't required to use an  
external database) is to just store everything in the image and then  
save the image. The industrial-strength approach to this is (my  
employer's product) GemStone/S, a combination database and Smalltalk  
virtual machine in which sending the message #'commitTransaction' to  
System causes the current changes to be persistent. You can get a good  
overview of the architecture (comparing it to Rails), the Smalltalk  
language, and Seaside by watching a video of a presentation I make to  
Ruby groups. See http://programminggems.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/ 
video/ for the links. GemStone supports the use of Monticello for  
source code management so you can develop in Squeak and deploy in  
GemStone/S. GemStone has a no-cost version for up to 4 GB of data.

James Foster
GemStone Systems, Inc.

On Oct 22, 2008, at 8:12 AM, sergio wrote:

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On Oct 23, 2008, at 3:26 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Maybe you want to have a look at this book:
> <http://squeakbyexample.org/>. It should give you a general view of
> the ideas behind Smalltalk.



thanks!

i am going through this now..

this is a REALLY interesting development set up ..

i like this alot.


___
peace,
sergio
photographer, journalist, visionary
www.village-buzz.com



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On Oct 23, 2008, at 4:28 AM, Marcin Tustin wrote:

> Have you tried the tutorial from the Hasso-Plattner Institute? Their  
> tutorial will answer many of your questions, on a more or less basic  
> level. The short answer is that during development, if you save your  
> image assiduously, you can keep all of your data just in objects in  
> your image. Then, broadly



thanks!

i was doing that, then i realized i need a little more background.. so  
i am going through squeak by example..


___
peace,
sergio
photographer, journalist, visionary
www.village-buzz.com



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On Oct 23, 2008, at 8:38 AM, James Foster wrote:

> presentation I make to Ruby groups. See http://programminggems.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/video/ 
>  for the links. GemStone supports the use of Monticello for source  
> code management so you can develop in Squeak and deploy in GemStone/
> S. GemStone has a no-cost version for up to 4 GB of data.


hey, james..

i went through your video last night (i started at midnight.. so it  
was a late night..)

and i was TOTALLY impressed! great job you did on the background  
information..

i think i am beginning to grasp smalltalk..

i do have one question for you..

how does gemstone differ from the server that comes natively with  
seaside? i would really like to try it for a few test application, and  
see how big my database gets.. but i imagine that 4G is ALOT of data..

thanks!

___
peace,
sergio
photographer, journalist, visionary
www.village-buzz.com



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Hi Sergio,

See comments below...

On Oct 27, 2008, at 6:26 AM, sergio wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the question. Seaside is a framework that is  
written in Smalltalk and has been ported from Squeak to a number of  
dialects of Smalltalk (including Cincom and GemStone). There is not a  
"server that comes natively with Seaside" in any obvious sense. Our  
intent with GLASS (GemStone, Linux, Apache, Seaside, & Smalltalk) is  
that you can write your Seaside application in any dialect of  
Smalltalk (with emphasis on Squeak) and port it easily to GemStone.  
Coming from Squeak is particularly easy since we support Monticello.

You can start in Squeak and port to GemStone, or you can go to http://seaside.gemstone.com/ 
  and download the things needed to start in GemStone. And yes, 4 GB  
is a lot of data.

James

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