iliad https support ?

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.

Thanks Bernat, Hernan.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.

I first came to Iliad for the same reasons, I really like the framework. My fear is that Iliad is already kinda old regarding to web technologies evolution, and maybe its still usable today but in 5 years ? Even with some support (bugs, minor évolutions...) the framework would need to keep up with new web tendencies and technologies, which is is a huge work. So i'm not sure if its wise to start using Iliad now knowing that all work might have to be done again in 2 years because it would be obsolete.

Again i'm no web expert and maybe its the same whatever the technology.

Still, i say all that but i started my project with iliad...

2016-02-17 0:59 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">hernan....@...>:

Hi Steven,

Sorry for the late reply

2016-01-28 7:23 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">steven....@...>:

Hi, thanks all for the feedback.

Bernat i did not think there was so much work done with iliad, that's impressive. Did you have a lot of users connected at the same time to your big apps, and so far would you say the framework was stable then and capable of sustaining the load ?

Benoît, i also use iliad as a hobby, but recently i had ideas of doing more things with it and the secure connection appears to be a real problem :/ I can't use PharoCloud as i already pay for a private server and this is where i want my apps to be. I did talk to Sebastien Audier who told me he didn't know how to do https with iliad, and maybe a solution could be an  apache server redispatching requests to the iliad image (for example) that would do the job (but i know nothing about all those web things...).

Hernán, thanks for the links. Are your apps in production open on the web or only on private servers ?

You can actually install the whole web site locally (tested in Pharo 4) by evaluating:

Gofer it
   smalltalkhubUser: 'hernan' project: 'IGEVET';
   configurationOf: 'IGEVETWebSite';
   loadDevelopment.

Start the application server

IliadKom startOn: 9999.

Then access to the entry point: <a href="http://localhost:9999/main" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Flocalhost%3A9999%2Fmain\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGO1-ChcrAR5ysQVpZpKJjphsRCgA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Flocalhost%3A9999%2Fmain\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGO1-ChcrAR5ysQVpZpKJjphsRCgA&#39;;return true;">http://localhost:9999/main

Yes there is a production app in the web (link sent by PM). No, it isn't fully completed and I am actively working on it right now.

Btw would you say its a good idea to start an iliad app with business goals today, instead of seaside for example ? I'm wondering, because its not too late already for me to rewrite my app before its too big and i loose my courage.

Admiting that Iliad is far away from being considered complete, or even a serious danger for Seaside, I should say I got tired of the Seaside coding style (too much #renderContentOn: typing for me). I believe now it was a correct paper project, which has moderate success for many Smalltalkers, but certainly not "revolutionized" the web at least in the sense I feel revolutions.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.

Hernán

 

Steven.

2016-01-28 5:08 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">hernan....@...>:

Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at <a href="http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smalltalkhub.com%2F%23!%2F~hernan%2FIGEVET\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNF9lH6FFHVYjy47ZWApJl1qwkwA_w&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smalltalkhub.com%2F%23!%2F~hernan%2FIGEVET\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNF9lH6FFHVYjy47ZWApJl1qwkwA_w&#39;;return true;">http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán

2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">steven....@...>:

Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Le 2/23/16 10:50 AM, Steven Costiou a écrit :

> I first came to Iliad for the same reasons, I really like the framework.
> My fear is that Iliad is already kinda old regarding to web technologies
> evolution, and maybe its still usable today but in 5 years ?

Even with
> some support (bugs, minor évolutions...) the framework would need to
> keep up with new web tendencies and technologies, which is is a huge
> work. So i'm not sure if its wise to start using Iliad now knowing that
> all work might have to be done again in 2 years because it would be
> obsolete.

  Well, when Iliad appeared the Ajax model was the new thing. Now it's
quite old and the new thing is the Single Page Application model with
the whole interface described/displayed via javascript with calls to
REST webservices to get the data.

  The Smalltalk answer to this model is Amber[1] for the UI side, and
Teapot[2] for the REST side.

  What is the place of Iliad in this ? Maybe it could be modify to
generate a full javascript UI and call REST webservices. But would it
still be Iliad with it's distinctive sign of seamless integration of Ajax ?

  Or is the move to the SPA model just an answer to the mediocrity of
other langage/frameworks at doing the Ajax model ? And then maybe not
something we, smalltalkers, should care a lot as we have all those nice
web frameworks ?

  My experience as a user is that the SPA model doesn't give me more
than the Ajax model, and thus Iliad should be just fine.  

  But the thing to consider with the SPA model is the ability to serve
multiple UI (classic webapp, optimized one for mobile or tablett, or
even native ones) with a single implemention of the REST services.

  Maybe would it be usefull to position Iliad in the IHM side of the SPA
model. Which means having more out of the box widgets with facilities
for getting data from REST services (something more like Cappuccino[3]).