iliad https support ?

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iliad https support ?

Steven Costiou
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

Bernat Romagosa
Hi there,

I believe there are not many active Iliad users nowadays. When I was coding web apps for a living I used Iliad in several projects which of course are all free. Most of these are not live any more and will probably not work out of the box in modern Iliads and Pharos.

I never used HTTPS though.

Here's a list of projects I managed to recover from the sands of time. I should back these up, in 15 years time I'll be really sad they got lost forever...

Impala Demo App
Tiny demo webapp for a Chinese localization company. They used it as a proof of concept to convince a client to pay for a bigger app I wrote.

Mukade Project Manager
The bigger app. It's a localization manager. It manages packaging, translations, proofreadings, basic invoicing, etc. It was never completely finished, but it worked okay enough for them to use it in their everyday business during three years. It used Neo4j as a back-end, and I regretted that every single day of my life while the project was live.

ReCeCo
A behemoth of an app we built at the Citilab during dark times. It was meant to be the backbone of our organization and it really was for a while, all projects we worked on for like 3 years were handled by the system and it never ever failed. I believe it must be one of the biggest apps ever written in Iliad. It handles a truckload of stuff, including:
  * File system handling
  * Integration with a browser plugin we built and maintained for Chrome, Firefox and Safari. God, those were the days of my life... :(
  * Large file uploads
  * Fancy looking hyperbolic tree visualizations (totally useless, but bosses loved them)
  * Videoconferencing
  * Chat
  * Forums
  * Complex user permissions
  * Automatic Fuel-based backup and recovery
  * Automatic Fuel serialization of errors, which are sent by email so you can spawn your local copy, materialize the error, debug it, and push it back to the live instance. Magic!
  * Email notifications system

Scaena
A technical rider WYSIWYG designer for music bands. It's amazingly still live (5 years and counting!), ugly and unfinished at scaena.citilab.eu

Smalltalk Tutor
An online programming school. This was a really cool project. I was hired by the Citilab to build this, and this was my first Iliad project ever. I'm really sad the funding got cut off and it was never completed, but it looked and worked really good. It had a partial Amber (JTalk at the time) frontend that interfaced with Pharo, and the UI looked quite pretty. A graphic designer and illustrator did the whole thing, he even drew Professor Stef (who looked nothing like the real one, by the way).

Imatge inserida 1


I'm sure I had more projects but I can't find them anywhere. I hope they're useful to you, at least this was a cool archaeology exercise for me! :)

Best,
Bernat.

2016-01-26 20:33 GMT+01:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

benoit
In reply to this post by Steven Costiou
Hi,

  I ask myself the same question about https with Iliad. As I am using
pharocloud, the answer was to use an "SSL-termination" and not asking
Iliad to do the SSL part of the work :
https://www.pharocloud.com/kb/tutorial/pharocloud_ssl

  I am using and developing with Iliad, but only as a hobby. I use and
write 2 web applications and plan to write some more. Those are intended
to be my own personal "cloud" with me keeping full control on data in
those apps, and full power to play with the code directly.

  Didn't announce anything because, they aren't properly packaged and
still need a lot of work for me not being ashamed by the code (but they
are on SmalltalkHub allready).

  One is some kind of reminder app, for tasks you have to on a regular
basis. The other is an application to manage collections of wargaming
models and lists of army for those games.

@+
Benoit


Le 1/26/16 8:33 PM, Steven Costiou a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?
>
> Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not
> to be used by anybody, if not dead.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steven.
>
> --
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> <mailto:[hidden email]>.
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Re: iliad https support ?

hernanmd
In reply to this post by Steven Costiou
Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán


2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

Steven Costiou
Hi, thanks all for the feedback.

Bernat i did not think there was so much work done with iliad, that's impressive. Did you have a lot of users connected at the same time to your big apps, and so far would you say the framework was stable then and capable of sustaining the load ?

Benoît, i also use iliad as a hobby, but recently i had ideas of doing more things with it and the secure connection appears to be a real problem :/ I can't use PharoCloud as i already pay for a private server and this is where i want my apps to be. I did talk to Sebastien Audier who told me he didn't know how to do https with iliad, and maybe a solution could be an  apache server redispatching requests to the iliad image (for example) that would do the job (but i know nothing about all those web things...).

Hernán, thanks for the links. Are your apps in production open on the web or only on private servers ?

Btw would you say its a good idea to start an iliad app with business goals today, instead of seaside for example ? I'm wondering, because its not too late already for me to rewrite my app before its too big and i loose my courage.

Steven.

2016-01-28 5:08 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán


2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

Bernat Romagosa
Hi Steven!
 
Bernat i did not think there was so much work done with iliad, that's impressive. Did you have a lot of users connected at the same time to your big apps, and so far would you say the framework was stable then and capable of sustaining the load ?

The truth is the app with the most users (localization manager) had probably around 100. That makes life really easier... 

We ran stress tests against the ReCeCo app with Selenium and it handled the load okay up to several thousands of users just by bypassing traffic through Apache.

I'm sorry, we never really cared much about scalability because we knew we wouldn't have that many users... :(
 
Benoît, i also use iliad as a hobby, but recently i had ideas of doing more things with it and the secure connection appears to be a real problem :/ I can't use PharoCloud as i already pay for a private server and this is where i want my apps to be. I did talk to Sebastien Audier who told me he didn't know how to do https with iliad, and maybe a solution could be an  apache server redispatching requests to the iliad image (for example) that would do the job (but i know nothing about all those web things...).

Hernán, thanks for the links. Are your apps in production open on the web or only on private servers ?

Btw would you say its a good idea to start an iliad app with business goals today, instead of seaside for example ? I'm wondering, because its not too late already for me to rewrite my app before its too big and i loose my courage.

If I had to start a web app today I'd be really lost... I hope someone else has a more modern insight into the current Smalltalk web landscape. I loved the idea behind Tide and I dabbled with it a bit when it was released, but I'm afraid it died before even taking off, is that right?
 
Cheers,
Bernat.



Steven.

2016-01-28 5:08 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán


2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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New widget : ILInPlaceWidget

benoit
In reply to this post by Steven Costiou
Hi,

  the feature freeze for Pharo 5 has just been announced. When it will
come out, we will need to release a new version of Iliad to be
compatible with it.
  So it seems to me like the right time to discuss some things I want to
add to Iliad. Hernán added as a contributor so I am able to commit them,
but I prefer to discuss it with everyone interested in iliad before.

  So the first thing I want to add is a new widget called
ILInPlaceWidget. The widget display some contents and on doucle click
display some other content (by using show:). Typical usage is to display
a form to edit the data displayed.
  The "inPlaceContent" can be either a block or another widget (usually
an ILFormula).

  Like ILConfirmationWidget or ILInformationWidget, I see it as a
generic utility widget, and so I want to add it to Iliad-Core/Buildables.
  You can find the source in my copy of Iliad on Smalltalkhub :

MCSmalltalkhubRepository
        owner: 'BenoitAstruc'
        project: 'Iliad'


  So what do you think of it ?

Benoit

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Re: iliad https support ?

hernanmd
In reply to this post by Steven Costiou
Hi Steven,

Sorry for the late reply

2016-01-28 7:23 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi, thanks all for the feedback.

Bernat i did not think there was so much work done with iliad, that's impressive. Did you have a lot of users connected at the same time to your big apps, and so far would you say the framework was stable then and capable of sustaining the load ?

Benoît, i also use iliad as a hobby, but recently i had ideas of doing more things with it and the secure connection appears to be a real problem :/ I can't use PharoCloud as i already pay for a private server and this is where i want my apps to be. I did talk to Sebastien Audier who told me he didn't know how to do https with iliad, and maybe a solution could be an  apache server redispatching requests to the iliad image (for example) that would do the job (but i know nothing about all those web things...).

Hernán, thanks for the links. Are your apps in production open on the web or only on private servers ?


You can actually install the whole web site locally (tested in Pharo 4) by evaluating:
Gofer it
   smalltalkhubUser: 'hernan' project: 'IGEVET';
   configurationOf: 'IGEVETWebSite';
   loadDevelopment.
Start the application server

IliadKom startOn: 9999.

Then access to the entry point: http://localhost:9999/main

Yes there is a production app in the web (link sent by PM). No, it isn't fully completed and I am actively working on it right now.


Btw would you say its a good idea to start an iliad app with business goals today, instead of seaside for example ? I'm wondering, because its not too late already for me to rewrite my app before its too big and i loose my courage.

Admiting that Iliad is far away from being considered complete, or even a serious danger for Seaside, I should say I got tired of the Seaside coding style (too much #renderContentOn: typing for me). I believe now it was a correct paper project, which has moderate success for many Smalltalkers, but certainly not "revolutionized" the web at least in the sense I feel revolutions.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.

Hernán
 

Steven.

2016-01-28 5:08 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán


2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

Steven Costiou
Thanks Bernat, Hernan.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.



I first came to Iliad for the same reasons, I really like the framework. My fear is that Iliad is already kinda old regarding to web technologies evolution, and maybe its still usable today but in 5 years ? Even with some support (bugs, minor évolutions...) the framework would need to keep up with new web tendencies and technologies, which is is a huge work. So i'm not sure if its wise to start using Iliad now knowing that all work might have to be done again in 2 years because it would be obsolete.

Again i'm no web expert and maybe its the same whatever the technology.

Still, i say all that but i started my project with iliad...


2016-02-17 0:59 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven,

Sorry for the late reply

2016-01-28 7:23 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi, thanks all for the feedback.

Bernat i did not think there was so much work done with iliad, that's impressive. Did you have a lot of users connected at the same time to your big apps, and so far would you say the framework was stable then and capable of sustaining the load ?

Benoît, i also use iliad as a hobby, but recently i had ideas of doing more things with it and the secure connection appears to be a real problem :/ I can't use PharoCloud as i already pay for a private server and this is where i want my apps to be. I did talk to Sebastien Audier who told me he didn't know how to do https with iliad, and maybe a solution could be an  apache server redispatching requests to the iliad image (for example) that would do the job (but i know nothing about all those web things...).

Hernán, thanks for the links. Are your apps in production open on the web or only on private servers ?


You can actually install the whole web site locally (tested in Pharo 4) by evaluating:
Gofer it
   smalltalkhubUser: 'hernan' project: 'IGEVET';
   configurationOf: 'IGEVETWebSite';
   loadDevelopment.
Start the application server

IliadKom startOn: 9999.

Then access to the entry point: http://localhost:9999/main

Yes there is a production app in the web (link sent by PM). No, it isn't fully completed and I am actively working on it right now.


Btw would you say its a good idea to start an iliad app with business goals today, instead of seaside for example ? I'm wondering, because its not too late already for me to rewrite my app before its too big and i loose my courage.

Admiting that Iliad is far away from being considered complete, or even a serious danger for Seaside, I should say I got tired of the Seaside coding style (too much #renderContentOn: typing for me). I believe now it was a correct paper project, which has moderate success for many Smalltalkers, but certainly not "revolutionized" the web at least in the sense I feel revolutions.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.

Hernán
 

Steven.

2016-01-28 5:08 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán


2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

thiago_sl
Hi Steven.

Can you blog (or something  else ) about your progress ? 

Hernan, do you have plans to do an update in jquery version? 

Em terça-feira, 23 de fevereiro de 2016 06:50:50 UTC-3, Steven Costiou escreveu:
Thanks Bernat, Hernan.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.



I first came to Iliad for the same reasons, I really like the framework. My fear is that Iliad is already kinda old regarding to web technologies evolution, and maybe its still usable today but in 5 years ? Even with some support (bugs, minor évolutions...) the framework would need to keep up with new web tendencies and technologies, which is is a huge work. So i'm not sure if its wise to start using Iliad now knowing that all work might have to be done again in 2 years because it would be obsolete.

Again i'm no web expert and maybe its the same whatever the technology.

Still, i say all that but i started my project with iliad...


2016-02-17 0:59 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">hernan....@...>:
Hi Steven,

Sorry for the late reply

2016-01-28 7:23 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">steven....@...>:
Hi, thanks all for the feedback.

Bernat i did not think there was so much work done with iliad, that's impressive. Did you have a lot of users connected at the same time to your big apps, and so far would you say the framework was stable then and capable of sustaining the load ?

Benoît, i also use iliad as a hobby, but recently i had ideas of doing more things with it and the secure connection appears to be a real problem :/ I can't use PharoCloud as i already pay for a private server and this is where i want my apps to be. I did talk to Sebastien Audier who told me he didn't know how to do https with iliad, and maybe a solution could be an  apache server redispatching requests to the iliad image (for example) that would do the job (but i know nothing about all those web things...).

Hernán, thanks for the links. Are your apps in production open on the web or only on private servers ?


You can actually install the whole web site locally (tested in Pharo 4) by evaluating:
Gofer it
   smalltalkhubUser: 'hernan' project: 'IGEVET';
   configurationOf: 'IGEVETWebSite';
   loadDevelopment.
Start the application server

IliadKom startOn: 9999.

Then access to the entry point: <a href="http://localhost:9999/main" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Flocalhost%3A9999%2Fmain\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGO1-ChcrAR5ysQVpZpKJjphsRCgA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Flocalhost%3A9999%2Fmain\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGO1-ChcrAR5ysQVpZpKJjphsRCgA&#39;;return true;">http://localhost:9999/main

Yes there is a production app in the web (link sent by PM). No, it isn't fully completed and I am actively working on it right now.


Btw would you say its a good idea to start an iliad app with business goals today, instead of seaside for example ? I'm wondering, because its not too late already for me to rewrite my app before its too big and i loose my courage.

Admiting that Iliad is far away from being considered complete, or even a serious danger for Seaside, I should say I got tired of the Seaside coding style (too much #renderContentOn: typing for me). I believe now it was a correct paper project, which has moderate success for many Smalltalkers, but certainly not "revolutionized" the web at least in the sense I feel revolutions.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.

Hernán
 

Steven.

2016-01-28 5:08 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">hernan....@...>:
Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at <a href="http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smalltalkhub.com%2F%23!%2F~hernan%2FIGEVET\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNF9lH6FFHVYjy47ZWApJl1qwkwA_w&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smalltalkhub.com%2F%23!%2F~hernan%2FIGEVET\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNF9lH6FFHVYjy47ZWApJl1qwkwA_w&#39;;return true;">http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán


2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="O_mpcYsvDQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">steven....@...>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

Steven Costiou
Hi Steven.

Can you blog (or something  else ) about your progress ?

Sure, i'll try to find some time to do that.

2016-02-24 14:24 GMT+01:00 Thiago Lino <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven.

Can you blog (or something  else ) about your progress ? 

Hernan, do you have plans to do an update in jquery version? 

Em terça-feira, 23 de fevereiro de 2016 06:50:50 UTC-3, Steven Costiou escreveu:
Thanks Bernat, Hernan.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.



I first came to Iliad for the same reasons, I really like the framework. My fear is that Iliad is already kinda old regarding to web technologies evolution, and maybe its still usable today but in 5 years ? Even with some support (bugs, minor évolutions...) the framework would need to keep up with new web tendencies and technologies, which is is a huge work. So i'm not sure if its wise to start using Iliad now knowing that all work might have to be done again in 2 years because it would be obsolete.

Again i'm no web expert and maybe its the same whatever the technology.

Still, i say all that but i started my project with iliad...


2016-02-17 0:59 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven,

Sorry for the late reply

2016-01-28 7:23 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi, thanks all for the feedback.

Bernat i did not think there was so much work done with iliad, that's impressive. Did you have a lot of users connected at the same time to your big apps, and so far would you say the framework was stable then and capable of sustaining the load ?

Benoît, i also use iliad as a hobby, but recently i had ideas of doing more things with it and the secure connection appears to be a real problem :/ I can't use PharoCloud as i already pay for a private server and this is where i want my apps to be. I did talk to Sebastien Audier who told me he didn't know how to do https with iliad, and maybe a solution could be an  apache server redispatching requests to the iliad image (for example) that would do the job (but i know nothing about all those web things...).

Hernán, thanks for the links. Are your apps in production open on the web or only on private servers ?


You can actually install the whole web site locally (tested in Pharo 4) by evaluating:
Gofer it
   smalltalkhubUser: 'hernan' project: 'IGEVET';
   configurationOf: 'IGEVETWebSite';
   loadDevelopment.
Start the application server

IliadKom startOn: 9999.

Then access to the entry point: http://localhost:9999/main

Yes there is a production app in the web (link sent by PM). No, it isn't fully completed and I am actively working on it right now.


Btw would you say its a good idea to start an iliad app with business goals today, instead of seaside for example ? I'm wondering, because its not too late already for me to rewrite my app before its too big and i loose my courage.

Admiting that Iliad is far away from being considered complete, or even a serious danger for Seaside, I should say I got tired of the Seaside coding style (too much #renderContentOn: typing for me). I believe now it was a correct paper project, which has moderate success for many Smalltalkers, but certainly not "revolutionized" the web at least in the sense I feel revolutions.

I don't know enough to evaluate Iliad for business projects, but there are a two little Iliad goodies which saved me a lot of time: Formulas and a simple and understandable dispatcher. Generally Iliad is easily understood by looking 10 minutes at the model classes, this simplicity is valuable when things go wrong (which will happen). With Seaside one should became expert to understand what's really happening (too bad in panic times) because its state of the art object model, even with its configuration and live debugging facilities.

Hernán
 

Steven.

2016-01-28 5:08 GMT+01:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:
Hi Steven,

I am using Iliad currently in production. Both applications in available at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/IGEVET

AffyWorkshop
A conference registration application.

IC
An HPC front-end for submitting bioinformatics jobs. Manages user registration, password retrieval, file uploading, logging, querying status of jobs, etc. It is currently under development.

Cheers,

Hernán


2016-01-26 16:33 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

anyone knows if it is possible to use https with iliad ?

Btw, anyone still using iliad, maybe in a production env ? It seems not to be used by anybody, if not dead.

Thanks,

Steven.

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Re: iliad https support ?

benoit
In reply to this post by Steven Costiou
Le 2/23/16 10:50 AM, Steven Costiou a écrit :

> I first came to Iliad for the same reasons, I really like the framework.
> My fear is that Iliad is already kinda old regarding to web technologies
> evolution, and maybe its still usable today but in 5 years ? Even with
> some support (bugs, minor évolutions...) the framework would need to
> keep up with new web tendencies and technologies, which is is a huge
> work. So i'm not sure if its wise to start using Iliad now knowing that
> all work might have to be done again in 2 years because it would be
> obsolete.

  Well, when Iliad appeared the Ajax model was the new thing. Now it's
quite old and the new thing is the Single Page Application model with
the whole interface described/displayed via javascript with calls to
REST webservices to get the data.

  The Smalltalk answer to this model is Amber[1] for the UI side, and
Teapot[2] for the REST side.

  What is the place of Iliad in this ? Maybe it could be modify to
generate a full javascript UI and call REST webservices. But would it
still be Iliad with it's distinctive sign of seamless integration of Ajax ?
  Or is the move to the SPA model just an answer to the mediocrity of
other langage/frameworks at doing the Ajax model ? And then maybe not
something we, smalltalkers, should care a lot as we have all those nice
webframeworks ?

  My experience as a user is that the SPA model doesn't give me more
than the Ajax model, and thus Iliad should be just fine.
  But the thing to consider with the SPA model is the ability to serve
multiple UI (classic webapp, optimized one for mobile or tablett, or
even native ones) with a single implemention of the REST services.

  Maybe would it be usefull to position Iliad in the IHM side of the SPA
model. Which means having more out of the box widgets with facilities
for getting data from REST services (something more like Cappuccino[3]).


Just my 2 cents on the subject.


[1] : http://amber-lang.net
[2] : http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~zeroflag/Teapot
[3] : http://www.cappuccino-project.org

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Re: New widget : ILInPlaceWidget

hernanmd
In reply to this post by benoit
Hi Benoit,

This is to let you know that I have received your above email through mailing-list.
The code seems fine, but could you add a very simple example class to see how you're using it?
Thank you for sharing this.

Cheers,

Hernán

2016-02-07 9:51 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

 the feature freeze for Pharo 5 has just been announced. When it will come out, we will need to release a new version of Iliad to be compatible with it.
 So it seems to me like the right time to discuss some things I want to add to Iliad. Hernán added as a contributor so I am able to commit them, but I prefer to discuss it with everyone interested in iliad before.

 So the first thing I want to add is a new widget called ILInPlaceWidget. The widget display some contents and on doucle click display some other content (by using show:). Typical usage is to display a form to edit the data displayed.
 The "inPlaceContent" can be either a block or another widget (usually an ILFormula).

 Like ILConfirmationWidget or ILInformationWidget, I see it as a generic utility widget, and so I want to add it to Iliad-Core/Buildables.
 You can find the source in my copy of Iliad on Smalltalkhub :

MCSmalltalkhubRepository
        owner: 'BenoitAstruc'
        project: 'Iliad'


 So what do you think of it ?

Benoit

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Re: New widget : ILInPlaceWidget

benoit
Hi Hernán,

  I have added an ILInPlaceWidgetApplication in Iliad-More-Examples. You
can check it in
http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~BenoitAstruc/Iliad/versions/Iliad-More-Examples.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.5 


  Let me know if you are ok to add it in
http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad

@+
Benoit

Le 10/03/16 00:59, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

> Hi Benoit,
>
> This is to let you know that I have received your above email through
> mailing-list.
> The code seems fine, but could you add a very simple example class to
> see how you're using it?
> Thank you for sharing this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hernán
>
> 2016-02-07 9:51 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>     Hi,
>
>       the feature freeze for Pharo 5 has just been announced. When it
>     will come out, we will need to release a new version of Iliad to be
>     compatible with it.
>       So it seems to me like the right time to discuss some things I
>     want to add to Iliad. Hernán added as a contributor so I am able to
>     commit them, but I prefer to discuss it with everyone interested in
>     iliad before.
>
>       So the first thing I want to add is a new widget called
>     ILInPlaceWidget. The widget display some contents and on doucle
>     click display some other content (by using show:). Typical usage is
>     to display a form to edit the data displayed.
>       The "inPlaceContent" can be either a block or another widget
>     (usually an ILFormula).
>
>       Like ILConfirmationWidget or ILInformationWidget, I see it as a
>     generic utility widget, and so I want to add it to
>     Iliad-Core/Buildables.
>       You can find the source in my copy of Iliad on Smalltalkhub :
>
>     MCSmalltalkhubRepository
>              owner: 'BenoitAstruc'
>              project: 'Iliad'
>
>
>       So what do you think of it ?
>
>     Benoit
>
>     --
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>     Groups "Iliad project" group.
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>     send an email to [hidden email]
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>
>
> --
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Re: New widget : ILInPlaceWidget

hernanmd
Hi Benoit,

Looks nice! Thanks.
The only thing is that example looks raw, may you add an #updatePage: method to use Iliad CSS style?

updatePage: aPage
    super updatePage: aPage.
    aPage head stylesheet href: '/stylesheets/iliad.css'

Feel free to commit into my repository and I will include it in the next release.

Cheers,

Hernán



2016-03-16 10:49 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]>:
Hi Hernán,

 I have added an ILInPlaceWidgetApplication in Iliad-More-Examples. You can check it in http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~BenoitAstruc/Iliad/versions/Iliad-More-Examples.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.5

 Let me know if you are ok to add it in http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad

@+
Benoit

Le 10/03/16 00:59, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :
Hi Benoit,

This is to let you know that I have received your above email through
mailing-list.
The code seems fine, but could you add a very simple example class to
see how you're using it?
Thank you for sharing this.

Cheers,

Hernán

2016-02-07 9:51 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>>:


    Hi,

      the feature freeze for Pharo 5 has just been announced. When it
    will come out, we will need to release a new version of Iliad to be
    compatible with it.
      So it seems to me like the right time to discuss some things I
    want to add to Iliad. Hernán added as a contributor so I am able to
    commit them, but I prefer to discuss it with everyone interested in
    iliad before.

      So the first thing I want to add is a new widget called
    ILInPlaceWidget. The widget display some contents and on doucle
    click display some other content (by using show:). Typical usage is
    to display a form to edit the data displayed.
      The "inPlaceContent" can be either a block or another widget
    (usually an ILFormula).

      Like ILConfirmationWidget or ILInformationWidget, I see it as a
    generic utility widget, and so I want to add it to
    Iliad-Core/Buildables.
      You can find the source in my copy of Iliad on Smalltalkhub :

    MCSmalltalkhubRepository
             owner: 'BenoitAstruc'
             project: 'Iliad'


      So what do you think of it ?

    Benoit

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    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
    Groups "Iliad project" group.
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Re: New widget : ILInPlaceWidget

benoit
It's done and committed.

  But just after the commit, as I was checking on a new image if all was
fine, I discovered that in fact half of this ILInPlaceWidget isn't
working : giving a widget to be displayed is working, but giving a block
isn't.
  That's because when giving a block it isn't possible to make it
"answer" to the "shower" widget. I didn't saw it at first because I had
only one widget "shown" like that, and with a makeDirty I was redrawing
the whole parent widget. But it breaks when you have multiple widgets
"shown"...

  I will see during the week end if I can get a better idea, otherwise I
will make a new commit to remove the block part...

@+
Benoit


Le 18/03/16 13:37, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

> Hi Benoit,
>
> Looks nice! Thanks.
> The only thing is that example looks raw, may you add an #updatePage:
> method to use Iliad CSS style?
>
> updatePage: aPage
>      super updatePage: aPage.
>      aPage head stylesheet href: '/stylesheets/iliad.css'
>
> Feel free to commit into my repository and I will include it in the next
> release.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hernán
>
>
>
> 2016-03-16 10:49 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>     Hi Hernán,
>
>       I have added an ILInPlaceWidgetApplication in Iliad-More-Examples.
>     You can check it in
>     http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~BenoitAstruc/Iliad/versions/Iliad-More-Examples.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.5
>
>
>       Let me know if you are ok to add it in
>     http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad
>
>     @+
>     Benoit
>
>     Le 10/03/16 00:59, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :
>
>         Hi Benoit,
>
>         This is to let you know that I have received your above email
>         through
>         mailing-list.
>         The code seems fine, but could you add a very simple example
>         class to
>         see how you're using it?
>         Thank you for sharing this.
>
>         Cheers,
>
>         Hernán
>
>         2016-02-07 9:51 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>:
>
>
>              Hi,
>
>                the feature freeze for Pharo 5 has just been announced.
>         When it
>              will come out, we will need to release a new version of
>         Iliad to be
>              compatible with it.
>                So it seems to me like the right time to discuss some
>         things I
>              want to add to Iliad. Hernán added as a contributor so I am
>         able to
>              commit them, but I prefer to discuss it with everyone
>         interested in
>              iliad before.
>
>                So the first thing I want to add is a new widget called
>              ILInPlaceWidget. The widget display some contents and on doucle
>              click display some other content (by using show:). Typical
>         usage is
>              to display a form to edit the data displayed.
>                The "inPlaceContent" can be either a block or another widget
>              (usually an ILFormula).
>
>                Like ILConfirmationWidget or ILInformationWidget, I see
>         it as a
>              generic utility widget, and so I want to add it to
>              Iliad-Core/Buildables.
>                You can find the source in my copy of Iliad on Smalltalkhub :
>
>              MCSmalltalkhubRepository
>                       owner: 'BenoitAstruc'
>                       project: 'Iliad'
>
>
>                So what do you think of it ?
>
>              Benoit
>
>              --

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Re: iliad https support ?

sths
In reply to this post by benoit

If I can chime in with my own opinion...

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 2:36:47 PM UTC-8, benoit wrote:
Le 2/23/16 10:50 AM, Steven Costiou a écrit :

> I first came to Iliad for the same reasons, I really like the framework.
> My fear is that Iliad is already kinda old regarding to web technologies
> evolution, and maybe its still usable today but in 5 years ?

I just started learning Iliad recently, after learning and exploring Seaside for a while. I find that I like Iliad a lot more. I like the clean URLs, the simple routing, the wonderful Javascript integration within an ILWidget (much easier and more intuitive in Iliad than in Seaside), and the relatively lightweight framework.  I am sorry that Iliad did not catch on before Seaside garnered so much attention for being a continuation-based framework, as I think Iliad could have been the standard, de facto web framework for Pharo or Squeak. It makes web programming fun and encourages exploration, just as Smalltalk was intended to do over other traditional programming languages.

 
Even with
> some support (bugs, minor évolutions...) the framework would need to
> keep up with new web tendencies and technologies, which is is a huge
> work. So i'm not sure if its wise to start using Iliad now knowing that
> all work might have to be done again in 2 years because it would be
> obsolete.


I don't think this is much of a concern. People still appreciate a well thought out and well designed framework which is a pleasure to use, if nothing else, as a go-to tool for a quick website prototype. It doesn't need to support the very latest fad, as long as it it provides some excellent basic functionality. The web applications that people use most in real life (search engines, shopping cart apps such as Amazon or Expedia, blogs, and on-line journals) are rather conservative, and offer fairly spare and sparse web interactions.
 
  Well, when Iliad appeared the Ajax model was the new thing. Now it's
quite old and the new thing is the Single Page Application model with
the whole interface described/displayed via javascript with calls to
REST webservices to get the data.

  The Smalltalk answer to this model is Amber[1] for the UI side, and
Teapot[2] for the REST side.

  What is the place of Iliad in this ? Maybe it could be modify to
generate a full javascript UI and call REST webservices. But would it
still be Iliad with it's distinctive sign of seamless integration of Ajax ?

No, it would no longer be Iliad. The beauty of Iliad is that one does not have to think in terms of client side programming and web services at the server. It abstracts those distinctions away.


  Or is the move to the SPA model just an answer to the mediocrity of
other langage/frameworks at doing the Ajax model ? And then maybe not
something we, smalltalkers, should care a lot as we have all those nice
web frameworks ?

I don't know much about SPA, but that's what I suspect. In my experience, great frameworks in Smalltalk, Lisp, et al can't be implemented directly in traditional languages, so they always have to invent some new abstractions that they CAN implement in order to provide a rough imitation of the original framework.

  My experience as a user is that the SPA model doesn't give me more
than the Ajax model, and thus Iliad should be just fine.  
  But the thing to consider with the SPA model is the ability to serve
multiple UI (classic webapp, optimized one for mobile or tablett, or
even native ones) with a single implemention of the REST services.

That may be the goal, but I also suspect that a well-designed mobile app will not simply be a condensed and simplified version of a traditional web app, so this may be a somewhat naive approach to take. I can remember when Visualworks had a product (VisualWave ?) which lets its developers create a standalone application, but when the right settings were applied, would automagically turn into a web app which tried to emulate a full screen GUI inside a web browser. It required some very skillful programming to develop this framework (and is a testament to what Smalltalk is capable of), but the end result was very unsatisfying because it did not look or feel like a typical web application.
 
  Maybe would it be usefull to position Iliad in the IHM side of the SPA
model. Which means having more out of the box widgets with facilities
for getting data from REST services (something more like Cappuccino[3]).


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Re: New widget : ILInPlaceWidget

benoit
In reply to this post by benoit
Hi all,

  I reworked a bit the ILInPlaceWidget to narrow it's perimeter and
getting rid of the faulty behaviour. Example code is updated as well and
the whole is commited on http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad.

@+
Benoit

Le 18/03/16 à 22:12, benoit a écrit :

> It's done and committed.
>
>  But just after the commit, as I was checking on a new image if all was
> fine, I discovered that in fact half of this ILInPlaceWidget isn't
> working : giving a widget to be displayed is working, but giving a block
> isn't.
>  That's because when giving a block it isn't possible to make it
> "answer" to the "shower" widget. I didn't saw it at first because I had
> only one widget "shown" like that, and with a makeDirty I was redrawing
> the whole parent widget. But it breaks when you have multiple widgets
> "shown"...
>
>  I will see during the week end if I can get a better idea, otherwise I
> will make a new commit to remove the block part...
>
> @+
> Benoit
>
>
> Le 18/03/16 13:37, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :
>> Hi Benoit,
>>
>> Looks nice! Thanks.
>> The only thing is that example looks raw, may you add an #updatePage:
>> method to use Iliad CSS style?
>>
>> updatePage: aPage
>>      super updatePage: aPage.
>>      aPage head stylesheet href: '/stylesheets/iliad.css'
>>
>> Feel free to commit into my repository and I will include it in the next
>> release.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Hernán
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-03-16 10:49 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>
>>     Hi Hernán,
>>
>>       I have added an ILInPlaceWidgetApplication in Iliad-More-Examples.
>>     You can check it in
>>
>> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~BenoitAstruc/Iliad/versions/Iliad-More-Examples.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.5
>>
>>
>>
>>       Let me know if you are ok to add it in
>>     http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad
>>
>>     @+
>>     Benoit
>>
>>     Le 10/03/16 00:59, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :
>>
>>         Hi Benoit,
>>
>>         This is to let you know that I have received your above email
>>         through
>>         mailing-list.
>>         The code seems fine, but could you add a very simple example
>>         class to
>>         see how you're using it?
>>         Thank you for sharing this.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>
>>         Hernán
>>
>>         2016-02-07 9:51 GMT-03:00 benoit <[hidden email]
>>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>         <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>:
>>
>>
>>              Hi,
>>
>>                the feature freeze for Pharo 5 has just been announced.
>>         When it
>>              will come out, we will need to release a new version of
>>         Iliad to be
>>              compatible with it.
>>                So it seems to me like the right time to discuss some
>>         things I
>>              want to add to Iliad. Hernán added as a contributor so I am
>>         able to
>>              commit them, but I prefer to discuss it with everyone
>>         interested in
>>              iliad before.
>>
>>                So the first thing I want to add is a new widget called
>>              ILInPlaceWidget. The widget display some contents and on
>> doucle
>>              click display some other content (by using show:). Typical
>>         usage is
>>              to display a form to edit the data displayed.
>>                The "inPlaceContent" can be either a block or another
>> widget
>>              (usually an ILFormula).
>>
>>                Like ILConfirmationWidget or ILInformationWidget, I see
>>         it as a
>>              generic utility widget, and so I want to add it to
>>              Iliad-Core/Buildables.
>>                You can find the source in my copy of Iliad on
>> Smalltalkhub :
>>
>>              MCSmalltalkhubRepository
>>                       owner: 'BenoitAstruc'
>>                       project: 'Iliad'
>>
>>
>>                So what do you think of it ?
>>
>>              Benoit
>>
>>              --
>

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