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Eliot Miranda-2

image overload

Hi All,

I'm sure Im opening an old topic but anyway, as I was riding the train to work today I saw a shop called "Audio Images" and it struck me how overloaded the term image is, and how poor a term for the contents of the image file Smalltalk image is. What's in the image is a snapshot of... almost the entire system (minus platform-specific virtual machine and possibly minus sources). So Smalltalk system file would be a far better term and stsys a more unique file extension (and according to Wikipedia STS is unused too). I can imagine that changing form image would be hugely expensive in documentation terms (docs, websites, workspaces, etc, etc). But I can at least dream of a better term.

P.S. I know, wasting one's time worrying about names. Almost as bad as worrying about colours

"And the wheel," said the Captain, "What about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project."
"Ah," said the marketing girl, "Well, we're having a little difficulty there."
"Difficulty?" exclaimed Ford. "Difficulty? What do you mean, difficulty? It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!"
The marketing girl soured him with a look.
"Alright, Mr. Wiseguy," she said, "if you're so clever, you tell us what colour it should be."

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K. K. Subramaniam

Re: [squeak-dev] image overload

On Friday 12 March 2010 11:29:20 pm Eliot Miranda wrote:
> I'm sure Im opening an old topic but anyway, as I was riding the train
> to work today I saw a shop called "Audio Images" and it struck me how
> overloaded the term image is, and how poor a term for the contents of the
> image file Smalltalk image is. What's in the image is a snapshot of...
> almost the entire system (minus platform-specific virtual machine and
> possibly minus sources). So Smalltalk system file would be a far better
> term and stsys a more unique file extension (and according to Wikipedia STS
> is unused too).
If ever we change the image format, we should also change its name and
extension. The first time people hear the term, they think of 'picture'. I
suppose the term image is a Mac hangover :-).

I prefer "bit bag" (*.bag) or "bag of bits" (*.bob).

BTW, sts is already taken (Microsoft Visual C)

Subbu

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Eliot Miranda-2

Re: [vwnc] image overload

In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Bruce Boyer <[hidden email]> wrote:

This is rather a sensitive area with me at the moment, as I'm working on indexing docs. I've had to resort to using "image" and "graphical image" to try to distinguish these two, but "image" remains unclear to anyone who doesn't already know.

I could guess that the term "snapshot" came first, as a methaphorical attempt to describe what saving that thing is, and "image" is what snapshots give (or pictures or something even worse for that thing). But, it's only a guess.

Right. That's why I don't like either snapshot or image. What are these snapshots or images of? They are intentionally abstract terms and are unhelpful. Yes, snapshot is much better, but still hopelessly abstract.

If a really good term were proferred, the documentation cost will be amortized over a long period of time, so not a worry. Getting it accepted by smalltalkers will be the harder problem.

I'm not sure, though, that "system file" is right. The file part is just an artifact of saving the state of the system, providing a way to preserving it for a restart.

But I see a snapshot file are more than just a memory dump. It /is/ the entire Smalltalk system, class library, potentially compiler, debugger, tools. It is in a format that requires the virtual machine to run it, but it is in fact the Smalltalk system in quiescent form. It is not a memory dump. It is only a dump of the Smalltalk object heap, not the entire memory space.

It is more than just a way of saving the state. It is also a way of moving that state and resuming it on a different system. Once you have the virtual machine key you can unlock the image, uh, system, but everything you need to program the system (beyond execution display and input devices) is there.

Is there a recognizable term for the state of memory at a moment? Cognitive scientists might have something, though I'm sure it would be hugely debated whether there is any such thing.

I forget...

Waste of time? Perhaps. But, beats indexing :)

Bruce

----- Original Message -----

From: [hidden email]

To: [hidden email] ; [hidden email] ; [hidden email]

Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:59 AM

Subject: [vwnc] image overload

Hi All,

I'm sure Im opening an old topic but anyway, as I was riding the train to work today I saw a shop called "Audio Images" and it struck me how overloaded the term image is, and how poor a term for the contents of the image file Smalltalk image is. What's in the image is a snapshot of... almost the entire system (minus platform-specific virtual machine and possibly minus sources). So Smalltalk system file would be a far better term and stsys a more unique file extension (and according to Wikipedia STS is unused too). I can imagine that changing form image would be hugely expensive in documentation terms (docs, websites, workspaces, etc, etc). But I can at least dream of a better term.

P.S. I know, wasting one's time worrying about names. Almost as bad as worrying about colours

"And the wheel," said the Captain, "What about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project."
"Ah," said the marketing girl, "Well, we're having a little difficulty there."
"Difficulty?" exclaimed Ford. "Difficulty? What do you mean, difficulty? It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!"
The marketing girl soured him with a look.
"Alright, Mr. Wiseguy," she said, "if you're so clever, you tell us what colour it should be."

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Stéphane Ducasse

Fwd: [squeak-dev] image overload

In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2

Interesting idea.

Stef

Begin forwarded message:

From: Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]>
Date: March 12, 2010 6:59:20 PM GMT+01:00
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]>, Pharo Development <[hidden email]>, vwnc NC <[hidden email]>
Subject: [squeak-dev] image overload
Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]>

Hi All,

I'm sure Im opening an old topic but anyway, as I was riding the train to work today I saw a shop called "Audio Images" and it struck me how overloaded the term image is, and how poor a term for the contents of the image file Smalltalk image is. What's in the image is a snapshot of... almost the entire system (minus platform-specific virtual machine and possibly minus sources). So Smalltalk system file would be a far better term and stsys a more unique file extension (and according to Wikipedia STS is unused too). I can imagine that changing form image would be hugely expensive in documentation terms (docs, websites, workspaces, etc, etc). But I can at least dream of a better term.

P.S. I know, wasting one's time worrying about names. Almost as bad as worrying about colours

"And the wheel," said the Captain, "What about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project."
"Ah," said the marketing girl, "Well, we're having a little difficulty there."
"Difficulty?" exclaimed Ford. "Difficulty? What do you mean, difficulty? It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!"
The marketing girl soured him with a look.
"Alright, Mr. Wiseguy," she said, "if you're so clever, you tell us what colour it should be."

_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project