in anybody out there? who uses 2.0?

Hi,

Here in Pharo headquarters we are shock that there are just 10 new bugs reported for 2.0 after the release...
So... I wonder... is that because we made a really cool release, or just because nobody is using it?

Cheers,
Esteban

 

Hi,

On 27 Mar 2013, at 15:24, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Here in Pharo headquarters we are shock that there are just 10 new bugs reported for 2.0 after the release...
> So... I wonder... is that because we made a really cool release, or just because nobody is using it?
>
> Cheers,
> Esteban

Of course there are still (mostly undiscovered) bugs, but overall I find 2.0 really solid.

I really think that all the hard work in the last couple of months/weeks did pay off.

Thanks !

Sven


--
Sven Van Caekenberghe
http://stfx.eu
Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Yesterday I moved my ongoing pet-project to 2.0.
It feels slicker than 1.4, which is great.

I was stuck because I didn't know how to properly load Seaside 3.x in
2.0, but I found a script in the Seaside mail-list.

So far it works, but for some reason I can't see my categories in the browser.

They are, ie:
Project-Backend-Seaside
Project-Backend-Websockets
Project-Backend-Tests

And I only see "Project" in the Browser, with a different Icon, but no
class whatsoever. If I browse the class, they have the proper
Category.

I fixed Seaside WAExternalFileLibrary to work with the new FS, it
wasn't working (relied on SpFilename and GRPlatform a lot).

As a newcomer to Pharo/Squeak I have to say, it is not easy to get
started... lots of respositories, versions, keybindings, etc... I know
this might be ignored because I don't contribute back, but I need to
say it. :-/
Once everything works it is a pleasure, though.


Regards!

Esteban A. Maringolo


2013/3/27 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
> Hi,
>
> Here in Pharo headquarters we are shock that there are just 10 new bugs reported for 2.0 after the release...
> So... I wonder... is that because we made a really cool release, or just because nobody is using it?
>
> Cheers,
> Esteban
>
>

You guys are all too cool and we are in awe :-)

As for my case, I sadly have not really had any time to play with it yet :-( Is Seaside running on 2.0? I need to do an update to a web app soon and I'd love to do it that way ...

On Mar 27, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:



---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry   -   http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile

2013/3/27 Johan Fabry <[hidden email]>:
> You guys are all too cool and we are in awe :-)
>
> As for my case, I sadly have not really had any time to play with it yet :-( Is Seaside running on 2.0? I need to do an update to a web app soon and I'd love to do it that way ...

I don't have a full coverage scenario, but for what I could test
yesterday it is working. Seaside-REST included.

Regards,

Esteban A. Maringolo

On Mar 27, 2013, at 11:01 AM, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2013/3/27 Johan Fabry <[hidden email]>:
>> You guys are all too cool and we are in awe :-)
>>
>> As for my case, I sadly have not really had any time to play with it yet :-( Is Seaside running on 2.0? I need to do an update to a web app soon and I'd love to do it that way ...
>
> I don't have a full coverage scenario, but for what I could test
> yesterday it is working. Seaside-REST included.


Cool, that's good enough for me to give it a try! Can you point me to instructions on how you installed it?

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry   -   http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile

> 2013/3/27 Johan Fabry <[hidden email]>:
>> On Mar 27, 2013, at 11:01 AM, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> 2013/3/27 Johan Fabry <[hidden email]>:
>>> As for my case, I sadly have not really had any time to play with it yet :-( Is Seaside running on 2.0? I need to do an update to a web app soon and I'd love to do it that way ...
>>
>> I don't have a full coverage scenario, but for what I could test
>> yesterday it is working. Seaside-REST included.

> Cool, that's good enough for me to give it a try! Can you point me to instructions on how you installed it?

Sure. I used this script:
https://github.com/renggli/builder/blob/master/scripts/seaside31-pharo2.st

Regards!

2013/3/27 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
> Hi,
>
> Here in Pharo headquarters we are shock that there are just 10 new bugs reported for 2.0 after the release...
> So... I wonder... is that because we made a really cool release, or just because nobody is using it?

As a side note I would say it happens with any major release (See
Python 3 or Ruby 2 during the last months, or even PHP4/PHP5 years
ago).

The upgrade to anything that's not backward compatible by design,
IMHO, is more a matter of confidence than features.

But sooner or later they will come :)

Regards!

Esteban A. Maringolo

Am 27.03.2013 um 15:24 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> Here in Pharo headquarters we are shock that there are just 10 new bugs reported for 2.0 after the release...
> So... I wonder... is that because we made a really cool release, or just because nobody is using it?
>
Most of my stuff is still on 1.4. As there is no big reason to move, I don't move because it takes time I can't spend at the moment. It will take some time to get used to the new environment, too. That means I need to figure out how to reestablish most of the 1.4 behavior (keyboard shortcuts, etc..) first.
I will move on a project by project basis to 2.0 and for the time I need to work in a mixed environment I'm not ready to use two different UI/keyboard/mouse/whatever systems. So mimicking 1.4 behavior in 2.0 is first and getting used to the new ways comes after.
Getting used to new things does not include keyboard shortcuts. I don't like them and I fear the day the support for 1.x shortcuts will be treated as legacy burden. It's just that there are people that hate emacs and everything that is like it :)

But I'm in progress to move a project to 2.0. We'll see!

Norbert

there is a bug about the registration and names with dots ([hidden email])... it will be fixed soon, sorry for the inconvenience.

I normally wait a few weeks after a release before having a bit of a
look myself. I did try loading Seaside in it and it complained about
OmniBrowser, and then tried Gitocello and that didn't load either. I
guess it's only natural that people take some time to update their
projects to a new version but given how key Seaside is to Pharo, I think
that needs to work out of the box (I'm sure it does with the right
version to be fair but was just pretending to be a newbie and using the
configuration browser)

Nautilus is going to be a bit of a learning curve for me as well. My
automatic typing into that top box on 1.4 is going to take some overcoming!

On 27/03/13 10:24 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>
> Here in Pharo headquarters we are shock that there are just 10 new bugs reported for 2.0 after the release...
> So... I wonder... is that because we made a really cool release, or just because nobody is using it?

Just before the release I loaded up my project, and did a quick check to
find that everything looked fine - except that I would have to migrate
to Fuel-1.9.

I had noticed that package loading seemed extremely slow, but did not
look further into it. I think I saw mention that it's due to some usage
of #become:, during the compiling of code. Based on build times (of just
loading the rough equivalent code), it seems about 3 times slower to do
a build on a Pharo-2.0 vs. Pharo-1.4.

The slowness is not just an annoyance, because I actually compile code
in my application - it's just compiling getters and setters. I've not
got enough working yet to see whether it's going to adversely affect the
usability (it could make startup time too slow).

Another thing I've noticed is occasional sluggishness in the UI. It's
hard to pinpoint, I often feel like my clicks are being lost.

The behaviour of the TestRunner was odd. Eventually I discovered running
tests via the Nautilus browser, but the UI feedback is extremely
confusing for "abstract" test cases. I still don't quite understand the
results I see there, so I do a final run of the tests in the TestRunner.

Another strange issue I had with test cases was to do with the
interaction of the deprecation warnings. In by build script, I run:
   Deprecation raiseWarning: false.
   Deprecation showWarning: false.
so the build can run headless. It took me a few hours, and a careful
single stepping, to find that the deprecation exceptions were being
swallowed. I'm sure the TestRunner did not behave this way before. If
you ran a test, you would still see the deprecation exceptions. It was
really frustrating to see your test fail, but have the stack cleared out
before you could debug the exception that caused the test failure.

Are these bugs, or just me getting used to the new release?

which os do you use?

On Mar 28, 2013, at 4:56 AM, Yanni Chiu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had noticed that package loading seemed extremely slow, but did not look further into it. I think I saw mention that it's due to some usage of #become:, during the compiling of code. Based on build times (of just loading the rough equivalent code), it seems about 3 times slower to do a build on a Pharo-2.0 vs. Pharo-1.4.
>
Yes, this is known and we should analyze it… one thing we need to get rid of os the #become: when updating the source pointer. There seems to be something slow with announcing changes, too.

>
> Another thing I've noticed is occasional sluggishness in the UI. It's hard to pinpoint, I often feel like my clicks are being lost.
>
I have not seen that one.

> The behaviour of the TestRunner was odd. Eventually I discovered running tests via the Nautilus browser, but the UI feedback is extremely confusing for "abstract" test cases. I still don't quite understand the results I see there, so I do a final run of the tests in the TestRunner.
>
Odd in which sense? related to the progress bar?

> Another strange issue I had with test cases was to do with the interaction of the deprecation warnings. In by build script, I run:
>  Deprecation raiseWarning: false.
>  Deprecation showWarning: false.
> so the build can run headless. It took me a few hours, and a careful single stepping, to find that the deprecation exceptions were being swallowed. I'm sure the TestRunner did not behave this way before. If you ran a test, you would still see the deprecation exceptions. It was really frustrating to see your test fail, but have the stack cleared out before you could debug the exception that caused the test failure.
>
Can you add a bug tracker entry for that one?

        Marcus

Le 27/03/2013 15:24, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> Here in Pharo headquarters we are shock that there are just 10 new bugs reported for 2.0 after the release...
> So... I wonder... is that because we made a really cool release, or just because nobody is using it?
>
> Cheers,
> Esteban

Hi,

I've started to load things in 2.0 (SmaCC, some of my current work) but
then the current work caught me back and I'm finishing it on 1.4 at the
moment.

Oh, I think I also stopped because I couldn't load FileTree in 2.0 and I
need it for a git-based workflow.

Thierry
--
Thierry Goubier
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