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install TraitsBrowser?

Trygve
There is an excellent home page for Traits:
   http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
package that is built on solid ground.

I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
latest TraitsBrowser?
(I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own code)

Thanks
--Trygve
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway


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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Damien Cassou-3
Hi Trygve,

the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains necessary
tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.


Bye

On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is an excellent home page for Traits:
>    http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
> It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
> package that is built on solid ground.
>
> I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
> latest TraitsBrowser?
> (I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own code)
>
> Thanks
> --Trygve
> --
>
> Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
>
> Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
>
> N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
>
> Norway
>
>
>



--
Damien Cassou

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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Nicolai Hess
In reply to this post by Trygve

After the discussion about traits or no traits I read the paper
"Traits: Tools and Methodology" and was just about to ask the same
question. Where to find this Traitsbrowser. So now why does this
Traitsbrowser not exist anymore? I thought this was very promising.
I know in the devimage are Omnibrowser extensions for traits, the one
button next to "instance, class, ?" to showing traits, and maybe some more or
less hidden functions. But this traits view is a bit confusing. For example the
class pane slides to the left and what you see in the traitspanel isnt always a triat
but the same class.
I also tried the OB-Traitsbrowser(?), is this under further development ?. The last
time I installed this browser, it nearly freezes my image with terrible long computations
(for the dynamic protocols I think).


Nicolai


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: 19.02.08 07:44:00
> An: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?


>
> Hi Trygve,
>
> the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
> anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
> Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
> http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains necessary
> tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.
>
>
> Bye
>
> On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > There is an excellent home page for Traits:
> >    http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
> > It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
> > package that is built on solid ground.
> >
> > I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
> > latest TraitsBrowser?
> > (I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own code)
> >
> > Thanks
> > --Trygve
> > --
> >
> > Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
> >
> > Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
> >
> > N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
> >
> > Norway
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Damien Cassou
>
>


_____________________________________________________________________
Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066


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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Trygve
In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
Damien ,
many thanks for quick answer.

Traits seems to me to be a very promising and powerful extension of the Smalltalk class model.
I believe that Traits can help separate the code for what a system does from the code for what it is.
I want to build on Traits for my own experiments.
I need my image to be reproducible, so I need to build a Traits-enabled browser from scratch.
I cannot keep control if I build on a development image containing features with unknown provenance.

I would, therefore, greatly appreciate it if you could point me to appropriate downloads for the necessary tools to start working with Traits.

Cheers
--Trygve


On 19.02.2008 07:43, Damien Cassou wrote:
Hi Trygve,

the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains necessary
tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.


Bye

On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email] wrote:
  
There is an excellent home page for Traits:
   http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
package that is built on solid ground.

I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
latest TraitsBrowser?
(I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own code)

Thanks
--Trygve
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway



    



  

--
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway



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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Adrian Lienhard
In reply to this post by Nicolai Hess
Hi Nicolai,

The reason why the old browser does not exist anymore is that it was  
part of the initial implementation of Nathanael. Since this  
implementation had grown out of research, it contained many  
experiments etc. Therefore, Nathanael and I did a clean new  
implementation of Traits, that is part of 3.9 now. What we did not do  
is port the old browser extension (which was hackish because of the  
inherent problems of the Morphic browser). There have been various  
efforts to implement new GUI support with OmniBrowser, but AFAIK, none  
has reached the state where it is really stable.

Cheers,
Adrian

On Feb 19, 2008, at 09:26 , Nicolai Hess wrote:

>
> After the discussion about traits or no traits I read the paper
> "Traits: Tools and Methodology" and was just about to ask the same
> question. Where to find this Traitsbrowser. So now why does this
> Traitsbrowser not exist anymore? I thought this was very promising.
> I know in the devimage are Omnibrowser extensions for traits, the one
> button next to "instance, class, ?" to showing traits, and maybe  
> some more or
> less hidden functions. But this traits view is a bit confusing. For  
> example the
> class pane slides to the left and what you see in the traitspanel  
> isnt always a triat
> but the same class.
> I also tried the OB-Traitsbrowser(?), is this under further  
> development ?. The last
> time I installed this browser, it nearly freezes my image with  
> terrible long computations
> (for the dynamic protocols I think).
>
>
> Nicolai
>
>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]
>> >
>> Gesendet: 19.02.08 07:44:00
>> An: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]
>> >
>> Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?
>
>
>>
>> Hi Trygve,
>>
>> the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
>> anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
>> Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
>> http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains necessary
>> tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.
>>
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> There is an excellent home page for Traits:
>>>   http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
>>> It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
>>> package that is built on solid ground.
>>>
>>> I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
>>> latest TraitsBrowser?
>>> (I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own  
>>> code)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> --Trygve
>>> --
>>>
>>> Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
>>>
>>> N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
>>>
>>> Norway
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Damien Cassou
>>
>>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
>
>


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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Nicolai Hess
In reply to this post by Trygve

Thank you for your quick answer.

So, no chance to get this browser for current traitsimplementation.

I wrote a small "traitsbrowser" based on omnibrowser-framework. It is
a really cool framework, just some lines of code to get a browser to
show all traits, which classes and traits using this trait and all selectors
per class or used trait.

But it seems that omnibrowser is basically usable for browsing and editing in a single
place. For refactoring or traitsbased development, it lacks the possiblity
to have multiple views of different classes, and for example a side-by-side
lists of class selectors to better compare two class structures.
And the navigation pane can only show on "path".
Especially to compare class selectors and a traits "interface" it would
be good to view this side-by-side. Or to see the trait or another class "growing" while
refactoring methods out from one class there.

I know there is an extension for omnibrowser with multiple views. But this
views are again for one single class.


Nicolai


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]>
> Gesendet: 19.02.08 10:50:36
> An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?


>
> Hi Nicolai,
>
> The reason why the old browser does not exist anymore is that it was  
> part of the initial implementation of Nathanael. Since this  
> implementation had grown out of research, it contained many  
> experiments etc. Therefore, Nathanael and I did a clean new  
> implementation of Traits, that is part of 3.9 now. What we did not do  
> is port the old browser extension (which was hackish because of the  
> inherent problems of the Morphic browser). There have been various  
> efforts to implement new GUI support with OmniBrowser, but AFAIK, none  
> has reached the state where it is really stable.
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
> On Feb 19, 2008, at 09:26 , Nicolai Hess wrote:
>
> >
> > After the discussion about traits or no traits I read the paper
> > "Traits: Tools and Methodology" and was just about to ask the same
> > question. Where to find this Traitsbrowser. So now why does this
> > Traitsbrowser not exist anymore? I thought this was very promising.
> > I know in the devimage are Omnibrowser extensions for traits, the one
> > button next to "instance, class, ?" to showing traits, and maybe  
> > some more or
> > less hidden functions. But this traits view is a bit confusing. For  
> > example the
> > class pane slides to the left and what you see in the traitspanel  
> > isnt always a triat
> > but the same class.
> > I also tried the OB-Traitsbrowser(?), is this under further  
> > development ?. The last
> > time I installed this browser, it nearly freezes my image with  
> > terrible long computations
> > (for the dynamic protocols I think).
> >
> >
> > Nicolai
> >
> >
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]
> >> >
> >> Gesendet: 19.02.08 07:44:00
> >> An: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]
> >> >
> >> Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Trygve,
> >>
> >> the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
> >> anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
> >> Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
> >> http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains necessary
> >> tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bye
> >>
> >> On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> There is an excellent home page for Traits:
> >>>   http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
> >>> It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
> >>> package that is built on solid ground.
> >>>
> >>> I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
> >>> latest TraitsBrowser?
> >>> (I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own  
> >>> code)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> --Trygve
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
> >>>
> >>> N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
> >>>
> >>> Norway
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Damien Cassou
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> > http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
> >
> >
>
>
>


________________________________________________________
Bis 50 MB Dateianhänge? Kein Problem!
http://www.digitaledienste.web.de/freemail/club/lp/?lp=7


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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Trygve
Nicolai,
Is it easy for you to give me a file that I can install as a starting point for my own work? That would save me from digging into OmniBrowser and Traits classes before I know I need them.

Cheers
--Trygve


On 19.02.2008 11:42, Nicolai Hess wrote:
Thank you for your quick answer.

So, no chance to get this browser for current traitsimplementation.

I wrote a small "traitsbrowser" based on omnibrowser-framework. It is
a really cool framework, just some lines of code to get a browser to 
show all traits, which classes and traits using this trait and all selectors
per class or used trait.

But it seems that omnibrowser is basically usable for browsing and editing in a single
place. For refactoring or traitsbased development, it lacks the possiblity 
to have multiple views of different classes, and for example a side-by-side
lists of class selectors to better compare two class structures.
And the navigation pane can only show on "path".
Especially to compare class selectors and a traits "interface" it would
be good to view this side-by-side. Or to see the trait or another class "growing" while
refactoring methods out from one class there.

I know there is an extension for omnibrowser with multiple views. But this
views are again for one single class. 


Nicolai


  
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list [hidden email]
Gesendet: 19.02.08 10:50:36
An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?
    


  
Hi Nicolai,

The reason why the old browser does not exist anymore is that it was  
part of the initial implementation of Nathanael. Since this  
implementation had grown out of research, it contained many  
experiments etc. Therefore, Nathanael and I did a clean new  
implementation of Traits, that is part of 3.9 now. What we did not do  
is port the old browser extension (which was hackish because of the  
inherent problems of the Morphic browser). There have been various  
efforts to implement new GUI support with OmniBrowser, but AFAIK, none  
has reached the state where it is really stable.

Cheers,
Adrian

On Feb 19, 2008, at 09:26 , Nicolai Hess wrote:

    
After the discussion about traits or no traits I read the paper
"Traits: Tools and Methodology" and was just about to ask the same
question. Where to find this Traitsbrowser. So now why does this
Traitsbrowser not exist anymore? I thought this was very promising.
I know in the devimage are Omnibrowser extensions for traits, the one
button next to "instance, class, ?" to showing traits, and maybe  
some more or
less hidden functions. But this traits view is a bit confusing. For  
example the
class pane slides to the left and what you see in the traitspanel  
isnt always a triat
but the same class.
I also tried the OB-Traitsbrowser(?), is this under further  
development ?. The last
time I installed this browser, it nearly freezes my image with  
terrible long computations
(for the dynamic protocols I think).


Nicolai


      
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email] 
        
Gesendet: 19.02.08 07:44:00
An: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email] 
        
Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?
        
      
Hi Trygve,

the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains necessary
tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.


Bye

On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email] wrote:
        
There is an excellent home page for Traits:
  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
package that is built on solid ground.

I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
latest TraitsBrowser?
(I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own  
code)

Thanks
--Trygve
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway



          

-- 
Damien Cassou


        
_____________________________________________________________________
Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066


      

    


________________________________________________________
Bis 50 MB Dateianhänge? Kein Problem!
http://www.digitaledienste.web.de/freemail/club/lp/?lp=7



  

--
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway



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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Damien Cassou-3
In reply to this post by Trygve
Hi Trygve,

On Feb 19, 2008 10:16 AM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  I would, therefore, greatly appreciate it if you could point me to
> appropriate downloads for the necessary tools to start working with Traits.

Sure. Using the Universe browser (available on 3.10 images and on
SqueakMap and SqueakSource), install OmniBrowser-TraitsIntegration,
OmniBrowser-Standard and OmniBrowser-Morphic. If you want to base your
image on top of 3.9, you have to manually unload OmniBrowser before
installing it. You can also work on top of 3.9.1 which should not
contain OB.

Bye

--
Damien Cassou

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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by Adrian Lienhard
Damien developed Nile (a stream library based on traits) with the  
browser available in the dev image.
It is far from perfect but usable.

Thanks for your support. People have been bashing so much traits  
recently.
Stef


On Feb 19, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:

> Hi Nicolai,
>
> The reason why the old browser does not exist anymore is that it was  
> part of the initial implementation of Nathanael. Since this  
> implementation had grown out of research, it contained many  
> experiments etc. Therefore, Nathanael and I did a clean new  
> implementation of Traits, that is part of 3.9 now. What we did not  
> do is port the old browser extension (which was hackish because of  
> the inherent problems of the Morphic browser). There have been  
> various efforts to implement new GUI support with OmniBrowser, but  
> AFAIK, none has reached the state where it is really stable.
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
> On Feb 19, 2008, at 09:26 , Nicolai Hess wrote:
>
>>
>> After the discussion about traits or no traits I read the paper
>> "Traits: Tools and Methodology" and was just about to ask the same
>> question. Where to find this Traitsbrowser. So now why does this
>> Traitsbrowser not exist anymore? I thought this was very promising.
>> I know in the devimage are Omnibrowser extensions for traits, the one
>> button next to "instance, class, ?" to showing traits, and maybe  
>> some more or
>> less hidden functions. But this traits view is a bit confusing. For  
>> example the
>> class pane slides to the left and what you see in the traitspanel  
>> isnt always a triat
>> but the same class.
>> I also tried the OB-Traitsbrowser(?), is this under further  
>> development ?. The last
>> time I installed this browser, it nearly freezes my image with  
>> terrible long computations
>> (for the dynamic protocols I think).
>>
>>
>> Nicolai
>>
>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]
>>> >
>>> Gesendet: 19.02.08 07:44:00
>>> An: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]
>>> >
>>> Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Trygve,
>>>
>>> the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
>>> anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
>>> Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
>>> http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains  
>>> necessary
>>> tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> There is an excellent home page for Traits:
>>>>  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
>>>> It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
>>>> package that is built on solid ground.
>>>>
>>>> I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install  
>>>> the
>>>> latest TraitsBrowser?
>>>> (I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own  
>>>> code)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> --Trygve
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
>>>>
>>>> N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
>>>>
>>>> Norway
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Damien Cassou
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
>> http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by Trygve
hi Trygve

Just follow what damien said in his email, you will have a working  
environment.
Let us know if you have problems.

Stef

On Feb 19, 2008, at 1:36 PM, Trygve Reenskaug wrote:

> Nicolai,
> Is it easy for you to give me a file that I can install as a  
> starting point for my own work? That would save me from digging into  
> OmniBrowser and Traits classes before I know I need them.
>
> Cheers
> --Trygve
&ent"> hi Trygve

Just follow what damien said in his email, you will have a working  
environment.
Let us know if you have problems.

Stef

On Feb 19, 2008, at 1:36 PM, Trygve Reenskaug wrote:

> Nicolai,
> Is it easy for you to give me a file that I can install as a  
> starting point for my own work? That would save me from digging into  
> OmniBrowser and Traits classes before I know I need them.
>
> Cheers
> --Trygve
>
>
> On 19.02.2008 11:42, Nicolai Hess wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for your quick answer.
>>
>> So, no chance to get this browser for current traitsimplementation.
>>
>> I wrote a small "traitsbrowser" based on omnibrowser-framework. It is
>> a really cool framework, just some lines of code to get a browser to
>> show all traits, which classes and traits using this trait and all  
>> selectors
>> per class or used trait.
>>
>> But it seems that omnibrowser is basically usable for browsing and  
>> editing in a single
>> place. For refactoring or traitsbased development, it lacks the  
>> possiblity
>> to have multiple views of different classes, and for example a side-
>> by-side
>> lists of class selectors to better compare two class structures.
>> And the navigation pane can only show on "path".
>> Especially to compare class selectors and a traits "interface" it  
>> would
>> be good to view this side-by-side. Or to see the trait or another  
>> class "growing" while
>> refactoring methods out from one class there.
>>
>> I know there is an extension for omnibrowser with multiple views.  
>> But this
>> views are again for one single class.
>>
>>
>> Nicolai
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]
>>> >
>>> Gesendet: 19.02.08 10:50:36
>>> An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]
>>> >
>>> Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?
>>>
>>
>>> Hi Nicolai,
>>>
>>> The reason why the old browser does not exist anymore is that it was
>>> part of the initial implementation of Nathanael. Since this
>>> implementation had grown out of research, it contained many
>>> experiments etc. Therefore, Nathanael and I did a clean new
>>> implementation of Traits, that is part of 3.9 now. What we did not  
>>> do
>>> is port the old browser extension (which was hackish because of the
>>> inherent problems of the Morphic browser). There have been various
>>> efforts to implement new GUI support with OmniBrowser, but AFAIK,  
>>> none
>>> has reached the state where it is really stable.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>> On Feb 19, 2008, at 09:26 , Nicolai Hess wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> After the discussion about traits or no traits I read the paper
>>>> "Traits: Tools and Methodology" and was just about to ask the same
>>>> question. Where to find this Traitsbrowser. So now why does this
>>>> Traitsbrowser not exist anymore? I thought this was very promising.
>>>> I know in the devimage are Omnibrowser extensions for traits, the  
>>>> one
>>>> button next to "instance, class, ?" to showing traits, and maybe
>>>> some more or
>>>> less hidden functions. But this traits view is a bit confusing. For
>>>> example the
>>>> class pane slides to the left and what you see in the traitspanel
>>>> isnt always a triat
>>>> but the same class.
>>>> I also tried the OB-Traitsbrowser(?), is this under further
>>>> development ?. The last
>>>> time I installed this browser, it nearly freezes my image with
>>>> terrible long computations
>>>> (for the dynamic protocols I think).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nicolai
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>> Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> Gesendet: 19.02.08 07:44:00
>>>>> An: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Trygve,
>>>>>
>>>>> the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
>>>>> anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
>>>>> Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
>>>>> http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains  
>>>>> necessary
>>>>> tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bye
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]>  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is an excellent home page for Traits:
>>>>>>   http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
>>>>>> It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to  
>>>>>> see a
>>>>>> package that is built on solid ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I miss one very important piece of information: How do I  
>>>>>> install the
>>>>>> latest TraitsBrowser?
>>>>>> (I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own
>>>>>> code)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> --Trygve
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
>>>>>>
>>>>>> N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Norway
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Damien Cassou
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>> Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu  
>>>> sparen!
>>>> http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> ________________________________________________________
>> Bis 50 MB Dateianhänge? Kein Problem!
>> http://www.digitaledienste.web.de/freemail/club/lp/?lp=7
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
> Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
> N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
> Norway
>
>

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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Trygve
Damien, Stephane
    OB System Browser worked at first try and looks exciting. (I've already fixed what looked like a type error)
Many thanks
--Trygve

On 20.02.2008 11:02, stephane ducasse wrote:
hi Trygve

Just follow what damien said in his email, you will have a working environment.
Let us know if you have problems.

Stef

On Feb 19, 2008, at 1:36 PM, Trygve Reenskaug wrote:

Nicolai,
Is it easy for you to give me a file that I can install as a starting point for my own work? That would save me from digging into OmniBrowser and Traits classes before I know I need them.

Cheers
--Trygve


On 19.02.2008 11:42, Nicolai Hess wrote:

Thank you for your quick answer.

So, no chance to get this browser for current traitsimplementation.

I wrote a small "traitsbrowser" based on omnibrowser-framework. It is
a really cool framework, just some lines of code to get a browser to
show all traits, which classes and traits using this trait and all selectors
per class or used trait.

But it seems that omnibrowser is basically usable for browsing and editing in a single
place. For refactoring or traitsbased development, it lacks the possiblity
to have multiple views of different classes, and for example a side-by-side
lists of class selectors to better compare two class structures.
And the navigation pane can only show on "path".
Especially to compare class selectors and a traits "interface" it would
be good to view this side-by-side. Or to see the trait or another class "growing" while
refactoring methods out from one class there.

I know there is an extension for omnibrowser with multiple views. But this
views are again for one single class.


Nicolai



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list [hidden email]
Gesendet: 19.02.08 10:50:36
An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?


Hi Nicolai,

The reason why the old browser does not exist anymore is that it was
part of the initial implementation of Nathanael. Since this
implementation had grown out of research, it contained many
experiments etc. Therefore, Nathanael and I did a clean new
implementation of Traits, that is part of 3.9 now. What we did not do
is port the old browser extension (which was hackish because of the
inherent problems of the Morphic browser). There have been various
efforts to implement new GUI support with OmniBrowser, but AFAIK, none
has reached the state where it is really stable.

Cheers,
Adrian

On Feb 19, 2008, at 09:26 , Nicolai Hess wrote:


After the discussion about traits or no traits I read the paper
"Traits: Tools and Methodology" and was just about to ask the same
question. Where to find this Traitsbrowser. So now why does this
Traitsbrowser not exist anymore? I thought this was very promising.
I know in the devimage are Omnibrowser extensions for traits, the one
button next to "instance, class, ?" to showing traits, and maybe
some more or
less hidden functions. But this traits view is a bit confusing. For
example the
class pane slides to the left and what you see in the traitspanel
isnt always a triat
but the same class.
I also tried the OB-Traitsbrowser(?), is this under further
development ?. The last
time I installed this browser, it nearly freezes my image with
terrible long computations
(for the dynamic protocols I think).


Nicolai



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]

Gesendet: 19.02.08 07:44:00
An: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]

Betreff: Re: install TraitsBrowser?


Hi Trygve,

the TraitBrowser as presented in the trait articles does not exist
anymore. You can download an image with it, but it will be an old
Squeak image. I advise you to download a squeak-dev image
http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev.html which contains necessary
tools to start working with traits. Feel free to ask any question.


Bye

On Feb 18, 2008 9:52 PM, Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email] wrote:

There is an excellent home page for Traits:
  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Research/Traits/
It has several very informative articles; it is wonderful to see a
package that is built on solid ground.

I miss one very important piece of information: How do I install the
latest TraitsBrowser?
(I start from Squeak3.10.gamma.7159 with the addition of my own
code)

Thanks
--Trygve
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway




-- 
Damien Cassou



_____________________________________________________________________
Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066




________________________________________________________
Bis 50 MB Dateianhänge? Kein Problem!
http://www.digitaledienste.web.de/freemail/club/lp/?lp=7





-- 
Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]
Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver
N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
Norway





--
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway



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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Damien Cassou-3
On Feb 20, 2008 11:23 AM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  Damien, Stephane
>      OB System Browser worked at first try and looks exciting. (I've already
> fixed what looked like a type error)

What type error?

--
Damien Cassou

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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Trygve






On 20.02.2008 12:53, Damien Cassou wrote:
On Feb 20, 2008 11:23 AM, Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email] wrote:
  
 Damien, Stephane
     OB System Browser worked at first try and looks exciting. (I've already
fixed what looked like a type error)
    

What type error?
It was the classical Smalltalk error: an uninitialized inst.var. (nil instead of a Boolean).

The error occurred when I first opened OBSystemBrowser. hasChanges was nil when it shouldn't be; I think this was the failing method.

 OBCodeBrowser>>stepAt: milliseconds in: aSystemWindow
    hasChanges ifTrue: [self signalRefresh].
    self clearChanges

I added
   OBCodeBrowser>>initialize
    " Missing method. Type error: hasChanges not always set. "
    super initialize.
    self clearChanges.

A comment: I like to add an empty initialize method to Object so that all other initialize methods can start with super initialize.

Cheers
--Trygve

-- 
  
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway



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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Damien Cassou-3
Hi Trygve,

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  It was the classical Smalltalk error: an uninitialized inst.var. (nil
> instead of a Boolean).
>
>  The error occurred when I first opened OBSystemBrowser. hasChanges was nil
> when it shouldn't be; I think this was the failing method.


I've never seen this error. What is your image and how did you install
OmniBrowser on it?

>  A comment: I like to add an empty initialize method to Object so that all
> other initialize methods can start with super initialize.

Always sending 'super initialize' is a good habit. But #initialize is
already implemented in ProtoObject so there is no need to implement it
in Object.

--
Damien Cassou

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Re: install TraitsBrowser?

Trygve
I tried to follow your instructions. But it doesn't really matter, does it?

initialize
is called from the instantiation of OBBrowser and its subclasses. The method initialize is implemented in OBCodeBrowser where it initializes its inst.vars. The subclass, OBSystemBrowser adds another inst.var., but it doesn't have a corresponding initialize method. I call it a bug, some might call it a glitch, and there might be some that consider it good practice to rely on initializing inst.vars as side effects of various system operations. (Lazy initialization is another matter, of course)

Cheers :-)
--Trygve

On 21.02.2008 11:25, Damien Cassou wrote:
Hi Trygve,

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email] wrote:
  
 It was the classical Smalltalk error: an uninitialized inst.var. (nil
instead of a Boolean).

 The error occurred when I first opened OBSystemBrowser. hasChanges was nil
when it shouldn't be; I think this was the failing method.
    


I've never seen this error. What is your image and how did you install
OmniBrowser on it?

  
 A comment: I like to add an empty initialize method to Object so that all
other initialize methods can start with super initialize.
    

Always sending 'super initialize' is a good habit. But #initialize is
already implemented in ProtoObject so there is no need to implement it
in Object.

  

--
--

Trygve Reenskaug       mailto: [hidden email]

Morgedalsvn. 5A         http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver

N-0378 Oslo               Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Norway