installing both v3 and v4 on the same machine

Can both version 3 and version 4 reside happily on a single computer?  I'm
asking because I'm working on an application that is coming along nicely in
version 3 and I don't want to disturb anything there while I begin to play
around with version 4.

How about deployment of an application, especially on W95 machines: are
there likely to be more problems or fewer problems with version 4 than with
version 3?  Does version 4 require the very same support DLLs (that are not
shipped with Dolphin) or does it require additonal and/or newer DLLs?


  -- Frank
  [hidden email]

Frank,

> Can both version 3 and version 4 reside happily on a single computer?  I'm
> asking because I'm working on an application that is coming along nicely
in
> version 3 and I don't want to disturb anything there while I begin to play
> around with version 4.

I've got 3 and 4 working quite happily on my machine and haven't noticed any
problems. It was quite handy being able to have a V3 image and a V4 image
open at the same time, you can even drag/drop or cut/paste text between the
two, but it can get confusing remembering which view belongs to which app.

> How about deployment of an application, especially on W95 machines: are
> there likely to be more problems or fewer problems with version 4 than
with
> version 3?  Does version 4 require the very same support DLLs (that are
not
> shipped with Dolphin) or does it require additonal and/or newer DLLs?

I can't really answer that for Win95 but I had no problems,  in the DLL
area, deploying on Win2000. I do tend to keep up to date with the latest
versions though so it probably wouldn't hit me anyway.

I also think that the new distribution method using the MS Installer is able
to catch a lot of the old DLL errors - I just can't find where I think I
remember reading that <g>

Ian

Ian,

> I've got 3 and 4 working quite happily on my machine and haven't noticed
any
> problems. It was quite handy being able to have a V3 image and a V4 image
> open at the same time, you can even drag/drop or cut/paste text between
the
> two, but it can get confusing remembering which view belongs to which app.

What we do to avoid getting confused with two versions of Dolphin up (or
even just two different images) is to go into the System Options and change
the #defaultBackgroundColor for the Workspace in one of the images. Any new
browsers/tools that you open will have the different workspace colour making
then easy to distinguish.

Best regards,

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
http://www.object-arts.com

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"Ian Bartholomew" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:8vme6a$mv3$[hidden email]...
> I've got 3 and 4 working quite happily on my machine and haven't noticed
any
> problems. It was quite handy being able to have a V3 image and a V4 image

Thanks for the report.  That eliminates one of my worries.

> I can't really answer that for Win95 but I had no problems,  in the DLL
> area, deploying on Win2000. I do tend to keep up to date with the latest
> versions though so it probably wouldn't hit me anyway.

Me too, on my machine (it's the customers' machines with W95 I'm worried
about).

> I also think that the new distribution method using the MS Installer is
able
> to catch a lot of the old DLL errors

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm not anxious to learn how to use it, though.
I suppose I'll have to do so eventually.

> - I just can't find where I think I remember reading that <g>

Perhaps that propaganda was from Microsoft themselves, and merely a joke
that you cannot remember?  It is nearly  sickening for me to read the W2K
propaganda about how MS have come to our rescue to save the day with the
horrible DLL hell problem (and, conveniently forgetting to mention that they
created the problem in the first place!).  And, they save the day again by
requiring _fewer_ reboots when installing nearly anything (whereas Linux
virtually never requires a reboot).  Oh well, some days I'm unhappy with MS
and Windows -- and some days I'm _very_ unhappy with MS and Windows.


  -- Frank
  [hidden email]

Andy Bower wrote:

> What we do to avoid getting confused with two versions of Dolphin up (or
> even just two different images) is to go into the System Options and change
> the #defaultBackgroundColor for the Workspace in one of the images. Any new
> browsers/tools that you open will have the different workspace colour making
> then easy to distinguish.

I discovered the same technique, but for a different purpose:

I need to debug a smalltalk client and at the same time a smalltalk server it is
talking to; running in different images. Then it's very useful to be able to
know which color window is server, which the client. In general trying to debug
client-server communications is a bit tricky, but with ST it seems feasible.

-Panu

"panu" wrote:

> I need to debug a smalltalk client and at the same time a smalltalk server
it is
> talking to; running in different images. Then it's very useful to be able
to
> know which color window is server, which the client. In general trying to
debug
> client-server communications is a bit tricky, but with ST it seems
feasible.

BTW, this reminds me of something I've been meaning to mention for some
months.  There seems to be a problem running a TCP/IP server and client in
the *same* image.  Data seems to be getting lost somewhere between server
and client.  I suspect it's a timing problem since it goes away under the
debugger.

I don't know if this affects D4.

Sorry not to give more details, but seeing Panu's post reminded me, and it
may save someone a few hours of puzzlement.

    -- chris

Chris,

> BTW, this reminds me of something I've been meaning to mention for some
> months.  There seems to be a problem running a TCP/IP server and client in
> the *same* image.  Data seems to be getting lost somewhere between server
> and client.  I suspect it's a timing problem since it goes away under the
> debugger.

I do this routinely for debugging purposes; if data were disappearing, I'd
know about it.  I use blocking call monitors to accept connections, and
otherwise do my own threading.  My guess is that you might be getting
deadlocked somehow.  Do you see partial messages with everything up to a
point, or do you experience gaps in data?  As a check, you might run a
couple of chat shells in your image to see if they suffer the same problem.

Have a good one,

Bill

--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

Bill,

> > BTW, this reminds me of something I've been meaning to mention for some
> > months.  There seems to be a problem running a TCP/IP server and client
in
> > the *same* image.  Data seems to be getting lost somewhere between
server
> > and client.  I suspect it's a timing problem since it goes away under
the
> > debugger.
>
> I do this routinely for debugging purposes; if data were disappearing, I'd
> know about it.  I use blocking call monitors to accept connections, and
> otherwise do my own threading.  My guess is that you might be getting
> deadlocked somehow.  Do you see partial messages with everything up to a
> point, or do you experience gaps in data?  As a check, you might run a
> couple of chat shells in your image to see if they suffer the same
problem.

The position was that the client had a background thread which would format
a request (actually an HTTP get) and then open a connection to the server,
send the request, and then waits for the response, reads it can closes the
connection.  That's all using the "blocking" API.  The server likewise is a
single thread which waits for an HTTP request, reads it using the blocking
API, formats a response and sends it back, then closes the connection.

There isn't (at least there *shouldn't* be) any other interaction at all
between server and client, so I'd hope that there was no need for explicit
synchronisation.  I realise that a fair bit of both their network code would
actually be happening in callbacks in the UI thread, but that shouldn't
introduce a need for synchronisation either.   At least, not as I understand
it.  The two apps do talk to each other fine if they're in different images.

What I was seeing was that bits of the messages were missing.  Bits in the
middle, that is.  There seemed to be some sort of tie-in to line breaks, but
I never worked out what that was.

My *guess* (and it *only* a guess) is that there was some sort of confusion
happening down at the lowest levels of Dolphin's socket "window", such that
notifications were getting mishandled somehow, but I haven't had
time/occasion to try to track down what was really happening.

It's interesting that you have a similar setup without problems.  I wonder
if it's a timing related thing (since, as I said, it all worked fine under
the debugger).  My simple apps don't do anything much at all with the data
so they can squirt it down the TCP/IP pipe as fast as Dolphin can write it.
Are your client/server conversations similarly streamlined ?

    -- chris