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linux ht cog vm

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Tobias Pape

linux ht cog vm

Hi all

I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
shady system config files? I can't ask my students
to do that, really…

Best
-Tobias

Levente Uzonyi-2

Re: linux ht cog vm

I don't think so. But why do you need the ht version?

Levente

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015, Tobias Pape wrote:

>
> Hi all
>
> I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
> ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
> shady system config files? I can't ask my students
> to do that, really…
>
> Best
> -Tobias

timrowledge

Re: linux ht cog vm

In reply to this post by Tobias Pape

On 08-04-2015, at 11:14 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
> ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
> shady system config files? I can't ask my students
> to do that, really…

It depends upon the OS version; on Raspbian for example there is no problem when running via a direct monitor but you have to do ‘sudo’ if running via xrdp. You *could* run one of the other varieties of ticker, but then the interrupt based one interacts rather badly with ALSA (is there anything that actually works well with alsa?) and can totally lock the kernel. Which I thought was supposed to be utterly impossible with Super Reliable Never Fail Linux.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange Opcodes: FART: Fill Accumulator from Result if True

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: linux ht cog vm

In reply to this post by Tobias Pape

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all

I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
shady system config files? I can't ask my students
to do that, really…

Why not? Their laptops are personal machines and if linux requires stupidities like restricting thread priorities through shady config files one can only bow to linux right?

Best
-Tobias

best,

Eliot

Tobias Pape

Re: linux ht cog vm

On 09.04.2015, at 23:14, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
> ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
> shady system config files? I can't ask my students
> to do that, really…
>
> Why not? Their laptops are personal machines and if linux requires stupidities like restricting thread priorities through shady config files one can only bow to linux right?

Nope. No dice.
It has to be a 'double click experience' for all OSes.
You can't imagine how
"We got this nice software here you'll be working with the next semester
but because we are such nice guys please change system files for us"
sounds to students.
We got enough trouble on the image side nonetheless :)
Best
-Tobias

>
> Best
> -Tobias

Tobias Pape

Re: linux ht cog vm

On 09.04.2015, at 23:25, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On 09.04.2015, at 23:14, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
>> ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
>> shady system config files? I can't ask my students
>> to do that, really…
>>
>> Why not? Their laptops are personal machines and if linux requires stupidities like restricting thread priorities through shady config files one can only bow to linux right?
>
> Nope. No dice.
> It has to be a 'double click experience' for all OSes.
> You can't imagine how
> "We got this nice software here you'll be working with the next semester
> but because we are such nice guys please change system files for us"
> sounds to students.
> We got enough trouble on the image side nonetheless :)

Don't get me wrong. I believe there's a very good reason to have
the limits changes, but I see no plausible way to convey this to
firstlings.

Best
-Tobias

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: linux ht cog vm

In reply to this post by Tobias Pape

So then the itimer heartbeat is the way to go. Those that start to use the system for FFI work are presumably hard-core enough to not be phased by the suggestion to move to the threaded heartbeat vm :)

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 09.04.2015, at 23:14, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
> ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
> shady system config files? I can't ask my students
> to do that, really…
>
> Why not? Their laptops are personal machines and if linux requires stupidities like restricting thread priorities through shady config files one can only bow to linux right?

Nope. No dice.
It has to be a 'double click experience' for all OSes.
You can't imagine how
"We got this nice software here you'll be working with the next semester
but because we are such nice guys please change system files for us"
sounds to students.
We got enough trouble on the image side nonetheless :)
Best
-Tobias

>
> Best
> -Tobias

best,

Eliot

Tobias Pape

Re: linux ht cog vm

On 09.04.2015, at 23:30, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So then the itimer heartbeat is the way to go. Those that start to use the system for FFI work are presumably hard-core enough to not be phased by the suggestion to move to the threaded heartbeat vm :)

Ok. That's the way than.
Btw: does anyone know how other VMs handle such stuff?

Best
-Tobias

>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On 09.04.2015, at 23:14, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
>> ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
>> shady system config files? I can't ask my students
>> to do that, really…
>>
>> Why not? Their laptops are personal machines and if linux requires stupidities like restricting thread priorities through shady config files one can only bow to linux right?
>
> Nope. No dice.
> It has to be a 'double click experience' for all OSes.
> You can't imagine how
> "We got this nice software here you'll be working with the next semester
> but because we are such nice guys please change system files for us"
> sounds to students.
> We got enough trouble on the image side nonetheless :)
> Best
> -Tobias
>
>>
>> Best
>> -Tobias

Steve Rees

Re: linux ht cog vm

Hi Tobias,
The normal way to handle this would be as part of the installation
process. A yum or apt package can make the modifications necessary by,
for example, installing a squeakvm.conf file in the appropriate
directory (/etc/security/limits.d on Ubuntu, other distros may vary).

This is where package maintainers can add value for a tool such as
squeak. They can hide all the nasty config file changes that a
particular tool may require that may freak out the uninitiated. Asking
someone to "apt-get install squeakvm" is so much nicer than asking them
to edit config files :) You "just" need to find someone to do the leg work.

Steve

On 09/04/2015 22:34, Tobias Pape wrote:

>
>
> On 09.04.2015, at 23:30, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> So then the itimer heartbeat is the way to go. Those that start to use the system for FFI work are presumably hard-core enough to not be phased by the suggestion to move to the threaded heartbeat vm :)
> Ok. That's the way than.
> Btw: does anyone know how other VMs handle such stuff?
>
> Best
> -Tobias
>
>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09.04.2015, at 23:14, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I have wondered, isn't there any other way to have the
>>> ht cog vm run, _without_ instructing users to change
>>> shady system config files? I can't ask my students
>>> to do that, really…
>>>
>>> Why not? Their laptops are personal machines and if linux requires stupidities like restricting thread priorities through shady config files one can only bow to linux right?
>> Nope. No dice.
>> It has to be a 'double click experience' for all OSes.
>> You can't imagine how
>> "We got this nice software here you'll be working with the next semester
>> but because we are such nice guys please change system files for us"
>> sounds to students.
>> We got enough trouble on the image side nonetheless :)
>> Best
>> -Tobias
>>
>>> Best
>>> -Tobias
>
>
>
>

--
You can follow me on twitter at http://twitter.com/smalltalkhacker

Bert Freudenberg

Re: linux ht cog vm

In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2

On 09.04.2015, at 23:30, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So then the itimer heartbeat is the way to go. Those that start to use the system for FFI work are presumably hard-core enough to not be phased by the suggestion to move to the threaded heartbeat vm :)

How about not including FFI with the standard VM? That way we avoid the heartbeat problems and we can tell users that they need another VM for FFI to work.

- Bert -

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Bert Freudenberg

Re: linux ht cog vm

In reply to this post by Steve Rees

> On 10.04.2015, at 01:06, Steve Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Tobias,
> The normal way to handle this would be as part of the installation process. A yum or apt package can make the modifications necessary by, for example, installing a squeakvm.conf file in the appropriate directory (/etc/security/limits.d on Ubuntu, other distros may vary).
>
> This is where package maintainers can add value for a tool such as squeak. They can hide all the nasty config file changes that a particular tool may require that may freak out the uninitiated. Asking someone to "apt-get install squeakvm" is so much nicer than asking them to edit config files :) You "just" need to find someone to do the leg work.

+1

This already works for the interpreter VM on all major linux distros.

We just need someone to update the interpreter source tar ball by adding the cog/stack sources and make it build+install everything.

- Bert -

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Tobias Pape

Re: linux ht cog vm

In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg

On 10.04.2015, at 16:25, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09.04.2015, at 23:30, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So then the itimer heartbeat is the way to go. Those that start to use the system for FFI work are presumably hard-core enough to not be phased by the suggestion to move to the threaded heartbeat vm :)
>
> How about not including FFI with the standard VM? That way we avoid the heartbeat problems and we can tell users that they need another VM for FFI to work.
>

:(

> - Bert -

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