(no subject)

First let me start with a small disclaimer. I'm new to seaside/
smalltalk/squeak/etc. So I may be missing something simple.

I would like to develop a seaside web app on my Mac using squeak. But  
the app will (almost definitely) end up on a windows machine. I need  
a good database that will work in both environments. A lot of people  
seem to recommend Goods, but I don't know how well it will compile on  
my Mac (some newer unix stuff just works--and some doesn't). And it  
would be nice to find a good smalltalk database--having everything  
living in squeak would make it easier to move back and forth between  
platforms.

So I've looked at Magma. The problem is, it looks like Magma has had  
a few recent changes, and seems to be having problems. I'm having  
trouble finding up-to-date documentation.  I THINK I finally have it  
set up properly (though there is a strange enter password to unlock  
keychain/enter password to save keychain two-step dance I have to go  
through every time I start up the squeak image, which just feels  
wrong). More importantly, the MagmaSession method connectAs: seems to  
have vanished (though  the magma seaside stuff (e.g. WAMagmaSession)  
still try to use it). I've tried to fix it by using connect: (which  
did not work) and connect (no arguments). The second attempt worked,  
sort of. But when the web browser starts a new session it takes  
several seconds for the web page to load--which feels too long. And,  
when I have multiple browsers/sessions open, they work fine at first,  
but eventually stop seeing each others changes. So something's not  
right.

So, does anyone have a better recommendation for a database that I  
can move easily between Mac and PC? Or does anyone know a trick to  
getting the new version of Magma to work? Any suggestions are welcome.

-Rich-
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Hi,

I had the same decision making problems and chosen OmniBase.
Goods was left becouse it require compilation on each platform.
Magma was left becouse it was 'not yet ready' 7 months ago.
Plus it has much bigger codebase than OmniBase. (providing more features for that)

All 3 projects suffering from lack of documentation and use case scenarios
especially ref. Seaside. There are many small bit of hints here and there, so you can
start and use any of them.

Depending on your project you can use Smalltalk image as database
which sounds 'unsafe' for a newbie, but I feel more positive about it now.
Just do periodic autosaves of the image to have rollback points.

ImageSegment may be a choice for a simple needs, combined with proper locking
of simultaneous updates.

Ref. OmniBase I just copy database files and Squeak image from my FreeBSD(i386) to Mac OS X(PowerPC)
and continue development without any problems. I never had a problem with migration.
My app finally working on FreeBSD(amd64) and different Linuxes(32 and 64bit)

Can say nothing (good or bad) about Magma as I never tried it for real.

I still feel more comfortable with SQL (MySQL or PostgreSQL) and you can use them with
Squeak. I just thought that I can have very easy storage with OODB. markDirty and you done :-)
No SQL strings, type conversion etc.
With GOODS it is probably the case (with a cost of performance) but with OmniBase
it is still some work required to store/retrieve objects, avoid locking conflicts etc.
Just different pain comparing to SQL approach.

Still OODB looks promising for me, hope with a better understanding how it works I can
gain better results with less pain :-)

-Dmitry.


Rich Warren wrote: _______________________________________________
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> I would like to develop a seaside web app on my Mac using squeak. But
> the app will (almost definitely) end up on a windows machine. I need
> a good database that will work in both environments. A lot of people
> seem to recommend Goods, but I don't know how well it will compile on
> my Mac (some newer unix stuff just works--and some doesn't).

My experience with goods on Linux is:
gcc4: doesn't compile
gcc3: compiles but crashes for big datasets
gcc2: compiles and is stable

But GOODS is simple to compile (./configure && make).

Cheers
Philippe
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On Tuesday 21 February 2006 06:59, Rich Warren wrote:
> So, does anyone have a better recommendation for a database that I
> can move easily between Mac and PC? Or does anyone know a trick to
> getting the new version of Magma to work? Any suggestions are welcome.

My VW/Squeak app runs on mac, PC and Linux. I use Postgres and Glorp. Setting
up Postgres on the mac is quite easy. It's in DarwinPorts, so you just 'sudo
port install postgres'.

As an aside, I also use GnuPlot to generate graphs for my application. I'm
quietly amazed that this combination of complex programs runs flawlessly on
all three platforms.

All the best,

  -Anthony

--
PGP key at http://anthony.etherealplanet.org
3FF8 6319 CADA 2D21 03BB 175F 3382 822A 502F AE80
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Hi!

Don't have time right now to give detailed answers but:

Rich Warren <[hidden email]> wrote:
[SNIP]
> So I've looked at Magma. The problem is, it looks like Magma has had  
> a few recent changes, and seems to be having problems. I'm having  
> trouble finding up-to-date documentation.  I THINK I finally have it  
> set up properly (though there is a strange enter password to unlock  
> keychain/enter password to save keychain two-step dance I have to go  
> through every time I start up the squeak image, which just feels  
> wrong).

I am still using the version before Krypton, no real issues at all.

> More importantly, the MagmaSession method connectAs: seems to  
> have vanished (though  the magma seaside stuff (e.g. WAMagmaSession)  
> still try to use it). I've tried to fix it by using connect: (which  
> did not work) and connect (no arguments). The second attempt worked,  
> sort of. But when the web browser starts a new session it takes  
> several seconds for the web page to load--which feels too long. And,  
> when I have multiple browsers/sessions open, they work fine at first,  
> but eventually stop seeing each others changes. So something's not  
> right.

I am using a modified version of Cees' adaptation (Kilauea) and that
uses a ConnectionPool that allocates a new magma session from the pool
for each Seaside session. Works good, and since the sessions are then
pre-pooled, you have no delay.

And generally I am very happy with Magma/Seaside, no big issues at all
and definitely no problems with "seeing each others' changes".

> So, does anyone have a better recommendation for a database that I  
> can move easily between Mac and PC? Or does anyone know a trick to  
> getting the new version of Magma to work? Any suggestions are welcome.

Can't speak for the latest version, haven't made the jump yet. I intend
to pump my base code out later on - just don't have time today. :)

regards, Göran
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