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Camillo Bruni-3

pharo VM names

We should really decide on this: https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7423

I guess that would simplify the choice for newcomers significantly!

EstebanLM

Re: pharo VM names

Hi,

1) CI builds names is not the same than app names.
2) The "official" pharo vm (the NB Cog JIT), should be named just "Pharo", because that is what users will see in his dock bar.
3) The stack VM is not a debug vm is just a VM who uses a stack-to-register approach. I would call it PharoS or something that simple.
4) RizelVM is not a regularly distributed VM, so it should not be in pharo, but in pharo-contribution
5) PLEASE, STOP MARKING ISSUES THAT CAN WAIT AS 2.0!!!! We are just 2 weeks of release. Stop adding new tasks. No matter if you think is important. Unless it will block us to release, IT IS NOT.

Thanks,
Esteban

On Feb 5, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We should really decide on this: https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7423
>
> I guess that would simplify the choice for newcomers significantly!

Camillo Bruni-3

Re: pharo VM names

On 2013-02-05, at 16:24, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 1) CI builds names is not the same than app names.

I am talking about the artifact names if that wasn't clear.

> 2) The "official" pharo vm (the NB Cog JIT), should be named just "Pharo", because that is what users will see in his dock bar.
> 3) The stack VM is not a debug vm is just a VM who uses a stack-to-register approach. I would call it PharoS or something that simple.

think about the user perspective? why would I even bother taking this VM?
There is one that is fast, and another one that is what? less stable?

> 4) RizelVM is not a regularly distributed VM, so it should not be in pharo, but in pharo-contribution
yes, definitely.

> 5) PLEASE, STOP MARKING ISSUES THAT CAN WAIT AS 2.0!!!! We are just 2 weeks of release. Stop adding new tasks. No matter if you think is important. Unless it will block us to release, IT IS NOT.

I associated this with Pharo2.0 ... I guess wrongly..

I provide fixes that can be included NOW => I have to mark them 2.0 otherwise nobody will ever ever look at it.
=> did you ever touch the monkey? You didn't, so unless that is fixed and it checks 3.0 tags as well, I can't help myself but putting it on 2.0

Denis Kudriashov

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

2013/2/5 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>

RizelVM

What is RizelVM?

Clément Béra

Re: pharo VM names

2013/2/5 Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]>

2013/2/5 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>

RizelVM

What is RizelVM?

Correct me if I am wrong, but Rizel VM is a VM that permits to benchmark. It was done by a student and worked nicely but it is not maintained any more.

Francisco Garau-2

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by Camillo Bruni-3

On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:34, Camillo Bruni

> => did you ever touch the monkey?

Sorry for the basic question, but what (or who) is this monkey?

- Francisco

EstebanLM

Re: pharo VM names

yeah, and translated to dirty spanish... well, I don't even want to think about :P

On Feb 5, 2013, at 9:04 PM, Francisco Garau <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:34, Camillo Bruni
>
>> => did you ever touch the monkey?
>
> Sorry for the basic question, but what (or who) is this monkey?
>
> - Francisco
>

Juan Pablo Sandoval

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by Clément Béra

Hello,

RizelVM is a simple extension of StackVM. It has few more primitives than StackVM.

This primitives aid us to counting the number of sent messages. The number of sent messages is related to the averages execution time over multiple executions. For more information about counting messages you can see this paper http://bergel.eu/download/papers/Berg11c-compteur.pdf

RizelVM highly depend on stackVM, while stackVM does not work in the new jenkins infraestructure, RizelVM wont work either.

Can someone check what is going on with StackVM?

Regards,

Juan Pablo

2013/2/5 Clément Bera <[hidden email]>

2013/2/5 Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]>

2013/2/5 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>

RizelVM

What is RizelVM?

Correct me if I am wrong, but Rizel VM is a VM that permits to benchmark. It was done by a student and worked nicely but it is not maintained any more.

Saludos,

Juan Pablo

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by EstebanLM

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

1) CI builds names is not the same than app names.
2) The "official" pharo vm (the NB Cog JIT), should be named just "Pharo", because that is what users will see in his dock bar.
3) The stack VM is not a debug vm is just a VM who uses a stack-to-register approach. I would call it PharoS or something that simple.

No. The StackVM is a VM that optimizes interpreted execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, but is still a pure interpreter. The Cog VM is a VM that optimizes execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, /and/ by compiling methods used more than once to machine-code and implementing a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code.

4) RizelVM is not a regularly distributed VM, so it should not be in pharo, but in pharo-contribution
5) PLEASE, STOP MARKING ISSUES THAT CAN WAIT AS 2.0!!!! We are just 2 weeks of release. Stop adding new tasks. No matter if you think is important. Unless it will block us to release, IT IS NOT.

Thanks,
Esteban

On Feb 5, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We should really decide on this: https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7423
>
> I guess that would simplify the choice for newcomers significantly!

--
best,

Eliot

EstebanLM

Re: pharo VM names

On Feb 5, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No. The StackVM is a VM that optimizes interpreted execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, but is still a pure interpreter. The Cog VM is a VM that optimizes execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, /and/ by compiling methods used more than once to machine-code and implementing a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code.

ok :)

Camillo Bruni-3

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by Francisco Garau-2

On 2013-02-05, at 21:04, Francisco Garau <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:34, Camillo Bruni
>
>> => did you ever touch the monkey?
>
> Sorry for the basic question, but what (or who) is this monkey?

the monkey is our primate friend https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-2.0-Issue-Tracker/
the checks and validates pending issues.

fstephany

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2

On 05/02/13 21:15, Eliot Miranda wrote:

>
> No. The StackVM is a VM that optimizes interpreted execution by mapping
> contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, but is still
> a pure interpreter. The Cog VM is a VM that optimizes execution
> by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts,
> /and/ by compiling methods used more than once to machine-code and
> implementing a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code.
>

This could be added in the Jenkins job description!

Camillo Bruni-3

Re: pharo VM names

doing that right now!

On 2013-02-05, at 22:08, Francois Stephany <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 05/02/13 21:15, Eliot Miranda wrote:
>
>>
>> No. The StackVM is a VM that optimizes interpreted execution by mapping
>> contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, but is still
>> a pure interpreter. The Cog VM is a VM that optimizes execution
>> by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts,
>> /and/ by compiling methods used more than once to machine-code and
>> implementing a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code.
>>
>
> This could be added in the Jenkins job description!
>

Camillo Bruni-3

Re: pharo VM names

done:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/StackVM/
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/PharoVM/

On 2013-02-05, at 22:09, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> doing that right now!
>
> On 2013-02-05, at 22:08, Francois Stephany <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 05/02/13 21:15, Eliot Miranda wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> No. The StackVM is a VM that optimizes interpreted execution by mapping
>>> contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, but is still
>>> a pure interpreter. The Cog VM is a VM that optimizes execution
>>> by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts,
>>> /and/ by compiling methods used more than once to machine-code and
>>> implementing a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code.
>>>
>>
>> This could be added in the Jenkins job description!
>>
>

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: pharo VM names

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

done:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/StackVM/
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/PharoVM/

"The Pharo VM (former Cog VM) is a VM that optimizes execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts.

It further jits/compiles methods used more than once to machine-code and implements a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code."

"The Pharo VM (also known as the Cog VM) is a VM that optimizes execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts.

It further jits/compiles methods used more than once to machine-code and implements a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code."

please.

On 2013-02-05, at 22:09, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> doing that right now!
>
> On 2013-02-05, at 22:08, Francois Stephany <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 05/02/13 21:15, Eliot Miranda wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> No. The StackVM is a VM that optimizes interpreted execution by mapping
>>> contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, but is still
>>> a pure interpreter. The Cog VM is a VM that optimizes execution
>>> by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts,
>>> /and/ by compiling methods used more than once to machine-code and
>>> implementing a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code.
>>>
>>
>> This could be added in the Jenkins job description!
>>
>

--
best,

Eliot

EstebanLM

Re: pharo VM names

yes, it is not "formerly known", it is just a branding for cog vm.

Esteban

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

done:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/StackVM/
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/PharoVM/

"The Pharo VM (former Cog VM) is a VM that optimizes execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts.

It further jits/compiles methods used more than once to machine-code and implements a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code."

=>
"The Pharo VM (also known as the Cog VM) is a VM that optimizes execution by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts.

It further jits/compiles methods used more than once to machine-code and implements a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code."

please.

On 2013-02-05, at 22:09, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> doing that right now!
>
> On 2013-02-05, at 22:08, Francois Stephany <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 05/02/13 21:15, Eliot Miranda wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> No. The StackVM is a VM that optimizes interpreted execution by mapping
>>> contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts, but is still
>>> a pure interpreter. The Cog VM is a VM that optimizes execution
>>> by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts,
>>> /and/ by compiling methods used more than once to machine-code and
>>> implementing a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code.
>>>
>>
>> This could be added in the Jenkins job description!
>>
>

--
best,
Eliot

Camillo Bruni-3

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2

On 2013-02-05, at 22:15, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> done:
>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/StackVM/
>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/VM/job/PharoVM/
>
>
> "The Pharo VM (former Cog VM) is a VM that optimizes execution by mapping
> contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts.
> It further jits/compiles methods used more than once to machine-code and
> implements a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code."
> =>
> "The Pharo VM (also known as the Cog VM) is a VM that optimizes execution
> by mapping contexts to stack frames and lazily instantiating contexts.
> It further jits/compiles methods used more than once to machine-code and
> implements a number of send optimization schemes in that machine-code."

nope it is NOT the cog VM, your branch doesn't have a set of changes we made,
notably to the file plugins, furthermore we ship by default with the native
boost plugin.

so to be fully correct I have to say *former*.

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by Camillo Bruni-3

Camillo

the stackVM can be important as a fallback
So we can have Pharo and PharoS (as slow and stack)

On Feb 5, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:

>
> On 2013-02-05, at 16:24, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 1) CI builds names is not the same than app names.
>
> I am talking about the artifact names if that wasn't clear.
>
>> 2) The "official" pharo vm (the NB Cog JIT), should be named just "Pharo", because that is what users will see in his dock bar.
>> 3) The stack VM is not a debug vm is just a VM who uses a stack-to-register approach. I would call it PharoS or something that simple.
>
> think about the user perspective? why would I even bother taking this VM?
> There is one that is fast, and another one that is what? less stable?
>
>
>> 4) RizelVM is not a regularly distributed VM, so it should not be in pharo, but in pharo-contribution
> yes, definitely.
>
>> 5) PLEASE, STOP MARKING ISSUES THAT CAN WAIT AS 2.0!!!! We are just 2 weeks of release. Stop adding new tasks. No matter if you think is important. Unless it will block us to release, IT IS NOT.
>
> I associated this with Pharo2.0 ... I guess wrongly..
>
> I provide fixes that can be included NOW => I have to mark them 2.0 otherwise nobody will ever ever look at it.
> => did you ever touch the monkey? You didn't, so unless that is fixed and it checks 3.0 tags as well, I can't help myself but putting it on 2.0

Camillo Bruni-3

Re: pharo VM names

On 2013-02-05, at 22:23, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Camillo
>
> the stackVM can be important as a fallback
> So we can have Pharo and PharoS (as slow and stack)

I agree, maybe we could merge that with the Rizel code? so we only need 2 VMs?

Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: pharo VM names

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

I there is going to be a suffix for the VM, I would name them PharoJIT
and PharoStack. So both have suffixes, otherwise Pharo"S" sounds like
it has something else the "clean" Pharo doesn't.

Just my view on naming things.

Regards,

Esteban A. Maringolo

2013/2/5 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
> Camillo
>
> the stackVM can be important as a fallback
> So we can have Pharo and PharoS (as slow and stack)