[pier] Common Pier Questions
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What are the most common questions about Pier. I am trying to set up a site to with tutorials, and Pier resources, and I want to know which questions I should answer first.
The site is at http://w337.uni.cc/Projects/Pier -- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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O my, let me start with things that I havent easily found answers to so far:
1. ( since answered ) how does one change the layout? 2. ( found buried in archives ) how you set up public/admin interfaces? 3. what on earth are all these components? i've been sticking them in and i dont know what 99% of them are or what they are good for. like the html compontent. huh? it isnt very obvious. 4. what is the general architecture? i think many questions i have could be answered if i understand how things fit together. right now its 48+ hours of poking around the interface and the code with no idea what i am even looking for. its very discouraging and feels like i could spend an eternity before i understand the basic architecture and can then really start to understand everything else. come to think of it. #4 is the big one. i have no idea how everything interoperates, what is lurking just beneath the hood so, its very hard even for the motivated adopter ( or at least this one ) not to get really discouraged. On Aug 20, 2008, at 3:42 PM, David Zmick wrote:
_______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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ok, architecture, like some kind of, here is Pier, now lets make it do something, an "idiots guide"!
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Sean Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
Re: [pier] Common Pier Questions
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In reply to this post by David Zmick
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 9:42 PM, David Zmick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What are the most common questions about Pier. I am trying to set up a site > to with tutorials, and Pier resources, and I want to know which questions I > should answer first. Nice idea, and very helpful of you. I've been thinking about this since Lukas mentioned his faq last week and here are some questions that I've come up with based on my experiences while getting to grips with Pier: - a brief explanation of the key concepts of Pier and their relationships (kernel, structures, contexts, commands, main widgets, users, groups etc) -- this is the same point Sean makes. - how do I add a page - manually, and programmatically? - how do I change the security of a page - manually and programmatically? - how do I add/delete/change a user - manually and programmatically? - how do I change a page's security - manually and programmatically? - how do I write a link to another page in the same kernel - manually and programmatically? - how do I write a link that when clicked will execute a command against another page - manually and programmatically? - how do I change the admin password when I've forgotten it? (I know that you have the answer for that one :-) I've got a small application that does a lot of these things programmatically (creates a new Pier kernel, adds pages to it, allows users to register, creates pages for them, and amends the security on those pages), I went through a very steep learning curve while getting to that point, so it may be very useful for others getting started with Pier. There's a couple of bits of code I'd want to remove, but I'm happy to publish the rest of it. Cheers, Michael _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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Ok, My tutorial is going to be about making a basic pier app, for yourself, like my page. I am going to try to stay away from more complicated things. Just a basic getting started, I hope.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Michael Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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I can't add pages yet programmatically, or do anything programmatically for that matter, so that wont be in there. I would like to have something about Magma as well, but I can't figure that out either.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM, David Zmick <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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In reply to this post by SeanTAllen
2008/8/20 Sean Allen <[hidden email]>:
> O my, let me start with things that I havent easily found answers to so far: > 1. ( since answered ) how does one change the layout? edit the environment pages. By default, there's only one here: http://localhost:8888/seaside/pier/environment Go there Log as admin Edit the page > 2. ( found buried in archives ) how you set up public/admin interfaces? Create an admin page Put several components (system, user, group) Make it only viewable only for admin's > 3. what on earth are all these components? i've been sticking them in and i > dont know what 99% of them are or what they are good for. > like the html compontent. huh? it isnt very obvious. Some are used internally by Pier. Some are intended for the mangement of Pier (like user...) Some are just seaside component that answer canBeRoot true ... Yes I also think this is something we could improve... :) > 4. what is the general architecture? i think many questions i have could be > answered if i understand how things fit together. > right now its 48+ hours of poking around the interface and the code > with no idea what i am even looking for. its very discouraging and > feels like i could spend an eternity before i understand the basic > architecture and can then really start to understand everything else. > come to think of it. It depends if you want to understant the architecture of Pier or the arhitecture of a Pier site, the kernel. The former is explained here: http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/smalltalk/pier under documentation and essentially http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Reports/Reng07c.pdf Did you look at the videos ? Did they help ? > #4 is the big one. > i have no idea how everything interoperates, what is lurking just beneath > the hood so, see there: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Reports/Reng07c.pdf Cheers, Cédrick > one ) > not to get really discouraged. > On Aug 20, 2008, at 3:42 PM, David Zmick wrote: > > What are the most common questions about Pier. I am trying to set up a site > to with tutorials, and Pier resources, and I want to know which questions I > should answer first. > The site is at http://w337.uni.cc/Projects/Pier > > -- > David Zmick > /dz0004455\ > http://dz0004455.googlepages.com > http://dz0004455.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki > > > _______________________________________________ > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki > _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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>> #4 is the big one.
>> i have no idea how everything interoperates, what is lurking just beneath >> the hood so, > see there: > http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Reports/Reng07c.pdf better see here: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Diploma/Reng06a.pdf page 23 to 42... (chapter 3). > Cheers, > Cédrick > > _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
Re: [pier] Common Pier Questions
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In reply to this post by cedreek
Better still, use the Edit Design command. If it is not loaded in your
image, you can find it in the Pier-Design package from the pieraddons repository. The Edit Design (or Ctrl+D in Safari) command allows you to edit the environment and the css directly from the page your are at without requiring a change of the context to go to the actual environment page. Cheers, Doru On Aug 20, 2008, at 11:03 PM, cdrick wrote: >> 1. ( since answered ) how does one change the layout? > > edit the environment pages. By default, there's only one here: > http://localhost:8888/seaside/pier/environment > Go there > Log as admin > Edit the page > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.tudorgirba.com/blog "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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In reply to this post by cedreek
>> >> 4. what is the general architecture? i think many questions i have >> could be >> answered if i understand how things fit together. >> right now its 48+ hours of poking around the interface and the >> code >> with no idea what i am even looking for. its very discouraging and >> feels like i could spend an eternity before i understand the >> basic >> architecture and can then really start to understand everything else. >> come to think of it. > > It depends if you want to understant the architecture of Pier or the > arhitecture of a Pier site, the kernel. The former is explained here: > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/smalltalk/pier under documentation i dont think anything on lukas's site comes close to what i am talking about. at least not that i have seen. perhaps i missed something obvious. > > and essentially http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Reports/Reng07c.pdf now this. this is good stuff. this is going to help TONS. thank you very much for that pointer. ( and ya, say the http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Diploma/Reng06a.pdf update link ) > > > Did you look at the videos ? Did they help ? a little but not with this particular point. _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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In reply to this post by cedreek
On Aug 20, 2008, at 5:03 PM, cdrick wrote: >> >> 3. what on earth are all these components? i've been sticking them >> in and i >> dont know what 99% of them are or what they are good for. >> like the html compontent. huh? it isnt very obvious. > Some are used internally by Pier. > Some are intended for the mangement of Pier (like user...) > Some are just seaside component that answer canBeRoot true > ... > Yes I also think this is something we could improve... :) Are there good resources to learn about these or should i just be happy knowing that in time it will come to me and it isnt important right now? That is the other thing with lack of documentation. You don't know what you need to know now and what can wait. _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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I don't think I am going to write a tutorial, but more of a reference. With things like Pier Structure, what the components do etc.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Sean Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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a reference would be excellent.
On Aug 21, 2008, at 5:34 PM, David Zmick wrote:
_______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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ok, good, I am still making a "Getting Started", but it is going to be very basic.
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Sean Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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Done with the VERY VERY basic getting started. http://w337.uni.cc/Projects/Pier/starting
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:01 PM, David Zmick <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
Re: [pier] Common Pier Questions
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In reply to this post by Michael Davies-3
This is an excellent idea!
Please continue! Pier needs that. Stef On Aug 20, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Michael Davies wrote: > On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 9:42 PM, David Zmick <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> What are the most common questions about Pier. I am trying to set >> up a site >> to with tutorials, and Pier resources, and I want to know which >> questions I >> should answer first. > > Nice idea, and very helpful of you. > > I've been thinking about this since Lukas mentioned his faq last week > and here are some questions that I've come up with based on my > experiences while getting to grips with Pier: > > - a brief explanation of the key concepts of Pier and their > relationships (kernel, structures, contexts, commands, main widgets, > users, groups etc) -- this is the same point Sean makes. > - how do I add a page - manually, and programmatically? > - how do I change the security of a page - manually and > programmatically? > - how do I add/delete/change a user - manually and programmatically? > - how do I change a page's security - manually and programmatically? > - how do I write a link to another page in the same kernel - manually > and programmatically? > - how do I write a link that when clicked will execute a command > against another page - manually and programmatically? > - how do I change the admin password when I've forgotten it? (I know > that you have the answer for that one :-) > > I've got a small application that does a lot of these things > programmatically (creates a new Pier kernel, adds pages to it, allows > users to register, creates pages for them, and amends the security on > those pages), I went through a very steep learning curve while getting > to that point, so it may be very useful for others getting started > with Pier. There's a couple of bits of code I'd want to remove, but > I'm happy to publish the rest of it. > > Cheers, > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
Re: [pier] Common Pier Questions
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In reply to this post by David Zmick
I get a " Error: "/seaside/pier/Projects/Pier/starting" not found. " on that :-(
-- Matthias On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:44 AM, David Zmick <[hidden email]> wrote: > Done with the VERY VERY basic getting started. > http://w337.uni.cc/Projects/Pier/starting > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 5:01 PM, David Zmick <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> ok, good, I am still making a "Getting Started", but it is going to be >> very basic. >> >> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Sean Allen <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> a reference would be excellent. >>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 5:34 PM, David Zmick wrote: >>> >>> I don't think I am going to write a tutorial, but more of a reference. >>> With things like Pier Structure, what the components do etc. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Sean Allen <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Aug 20, 2008, at 5:03 PM, cdrick wrote: >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> 3. what on earth are all these components? i've been sticking them >>>> >> in and i >>>> >> dont know what 99% of them are or what they are good for. >>>> >> like the html compontent. huh? it isnt very obvious. >>>> > Some are used internally by Pier. >>>> > Some are intended for the mangement of Pier (like user...) >>>> > Some are just seaside component that answer canBeRoot true >>>> > ... >>>> > Yes I also think this is something we could improve... :) >>>> >>>> Are there good resources to learn about these or should i just be >>>> happy knowing that >>>> in time it will come to me and it isnt important right now? >>>> >>>> That is the other thing with lack of documentation. You don't know >>>> what you need >>>> to know now and what can wait. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> David Zmick >>> /dz0004455\ >>> http://dz0004455.googlepages.com >>> http://dz0004455.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki >> >> >> >> -- >> David Zmick >> /dz0004455\ >> http://dz0004455.googlepages.com >> http://dz0004455.blogspot.com > > > > -- > David Zmick > /dz0004455\ > http://dz0004455.googlepages.com > http://dz0004455.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki > _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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sorry, I redid the whole server last night http://w337.uni.cc/Pier/Resources
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:04 AM, Matthias Berth <[hidden email]> wrote: I get a " Error: "/seaside/pier/Projects/Pier/starting" not found. " on that :-( -- David Zmick /dz0004455\ http://dz0004455.googlepages.com http://dz0004455.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ... https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki |
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