rails niceties equivalents?
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Since this question comes up from time to time I would answer it like this:
Seaside is not comparable to Rails. Seaside is a web framework - and does a very good job in web development compared to others out there. Rails on the other hand allows you to quickly start a simple web app right from the database. Depending on your requirements this allows you to provide a simple (CRUD) web application within minutes - but as the web pages grow or requirements change you may be limited with the possibilities of the framework (and maybe the language too). Decision there are already made. It's like using a wizard in an IDE, you can start easily - but there is a point in time where you need control and knowledge back in your hands ;) So the Smalltalk world is more comparable to the J2EE world here. YOU have to make decisions depending on your need and choose the things that make up your application. In Java you have to make decisions for the web tier (JSF, JSP, Facelets, plain Servlets, ...) and persistence (simple JDBC, OR-Mapping using JPA with Hibernate, TopLink, ...), build system (Ant vs. Maven) etc. Smalltalk is not different here. I assume you already made the decision in Smalltalk for Seaside as the web thing to use. You can start developing your model, connect it to a Seaside UI and first use simple "in image" persistence. This allows you to quickly provide a first prototype of an app. Later you may bind your app to Gemstone or Magma persistence (both OODBMS) or hooking up to a relational DB using Glorp as mapping framework. It also depends on the Smalltalk you use - Squeak provided several persistence solutions, commercial vendors also provide solutions. If you look for an easy (wizard style) way to develop simple DB app's in conjunction with Seaside the "WebVelocity" beta may help (google for it, its commercial) > i just want to make sure that those kinds of expectations don't get > broken. If your company is happy with quickly developed "websites bound to a database" just continue with Rails. If you need more sophisticated "web applications" use Seaside and choose from Smalltalk stack of technologies. bye Torsten -- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss für nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dslspecial.gmx.de/freedsl-surfflat/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:29 AM, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote: Since this question comes up from time to time I would answer it like this: Right, noone questions these assumptions. What would be nice to see, is a more understanding attitude from the Seaside list, that the term "Seaside" can mean a web applicaiton build on top of Seaside. Just as J2EE is a platform you can use with other things to build an application, it would make it much easier for new developers if some of the optional things that can be used with Seaside were more visible. The Seaside community would be well served to help people learn this, instead of always just saying "Seaside is not Rails". Dave
-- Dave Bauer [hidden email] http://www.solutiongrove.com _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: rails niceties equivalents?
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+1, good point. Attitude matters.
sebastian
Right, noone
questions these assumptions. What would be nice to see, is a more understanding
attitude from the Seaside list, that the term "Seaside" can mean a web
applicaiton build on top of Seaside. Just as J2EE is a platform you can use with
other things to build an application, it would make it much easier for new
developers if some of the optional things that can be used with Seaside were
more visible. The Seaside community would be well served to help people learn
this, instead of always just saying "Seaside is not
Rails".
Dave
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Dave Bauer-3
On May 15, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Dave Bauer wrote: > Right, noone questions these assumptions. What would be nice to see, > is a more understanding attitude from the Seaside list, that the > term "Seaside" can mean a web applicaiton build on top of Seaside. > Just as J2EE i think the list got a little bristly when i mentioned rails functions.. but bear with me... it's sort of like learning a new language.. you kind of have to learn what everything is called in the new language.. so, basically, i am asking alot of: "where is the nearest public restroom?" types of questions.. ___________ sergio t. ruiz network analyst red red design 419.281.8483 _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: rails niceties equivalents?
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> so, basically, i am asking alot of: > > "where is the nearest public restroom?" > > types of questions.. > Sergio you also have the #seaside IRC channel as another source of community interaction cheers, sebastian _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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