rails niceties equivalents?

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rails niceties equivalents?

sergio_101-2

hi, guys...

i am playing with my first seaside app, and i have a few quick  
questions..

for every new project, in order to allow clients to start entering  
data quickly, we build the database in rails, and then use  
activescaffold to quickly build a backend that allows them to start  
entering relevant data. this allows us to continue developing the  
front end, and presenting it with real data.

we also use restful_authentication to quickly install a user and role  
security system..

are there any equivalents to those systems in the seaside world?

thanks!

___________
sergio t. ruiz
network analyst
red red design
419.281.8483

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

Philippe Marschall
2009/5/14 sergio_101 <[hidden email]>:

>
> hi, guys...
>
> i am playing with my first seaside app, and i have a few quick questions..
>
> for every new project, in order to allow clients to start entering data
> quickly, we build the database in rails, and then use activescaffold to
> quickly build a backend that allows them to start entering relevant data.
> this allows us to continue developing the front end, and presenting it with
> real data.
>
> we also use restful_authentication to quickly install a user and role
> security system..
>
> are there any equivalents to those systems in the seaside world?

Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.

Cheers
Philippe
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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

sergio_101-2

On May 14, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:

> Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.



right..

i am just trying to figure out how to do similar things in seaside.


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network analyst
red red design
419.281.8483

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

Philippe Marschall
2009/5/14 sergio_101 <[hidden email]>:

>
> On May 14, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>
>> Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.
>
>
>
> right..
>
> i am just trying to figure out how to do similar things in seaside.

The short answer is there's none. Seaside is just a web framework. It
doesn't include any persistence stuff or security frameworks. The long
answer is there are other frameworks like Magritte that can do similar
things but are very different.

Cheers
Philippe
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RE: rails niceties equivalents?

Sebastian Sastre-2
In reply to this post by sergio_101-2
>
> i am just trying to figure out how to do similar things in seaside.
>
sure you're most welcome to.
The hard part is the paradigm shift.
You are facing 2 paradigm shifts actually. The web framework which is seaside,
and persisting in an ODB which has *nothing* to do with seaside.
cheers
sebastian

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

Gerardo Richarte
In reply to this post by sergio_101-2
Sergio_101 wrote:
> are there any equivalents to those systems in the seaside world?
    I also find the learning curve for using Smalltalk for webapps still
steeper than, say, rails or turbogears, anyway.

In your case, I would suggest to just get a GLASS
(http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/) and use it, no need to use or setup
a database, in GLASS it's all included, and it's free, and it's proven
to be good. I've been using it for some small things, and I like it a
lot... if you are wondering how you store the data: You just create a
Global where you store all your objects, or better, give it some
structure :)

    good luck!
    share your experience
    gera
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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

Dave Bauer-3
In reply to this post by Philippe Marschall


On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Philippe Marschall <[hidden email]> wrote:
2009/5/14 sergio_101 <[hidden email]>:
>
> On May 14, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>
>> Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.
>
>
>
> right..
>
> i am just trying to figure out how to do similar things in seaside.

The short answer is there's none. Seaside is just a web framework. It
doesn't include any persistence stuff or security frameworks. The long
answer is there are other frameworks like Magritte that can do similar
things but are very different.

It looks like Rails does not necessarily include every feature, and Seaside, the web framework might not, but are there any optional addons that people use? It seems like the responses always focus on Seaside the web framework, and do not mention if there is any usable code you can download that can add these type of features.

Dave

Cheers
Philippe
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--
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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

sergio_101-2
In reply to this post by Gerardo Richarte

On May 14, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Gerardo Richarte wrote:

>    I also find the learning curve for using Smalltalk for webapps  
> still
> steeper than, say, rails or turbogears, anyway.
>

my main concern is..

i work for a company.. i have done several HUGE projects in rails.. so  
they have an expectation as far as timing.. like.. they know that we  
can have a skeleton admin system set up in an afternoon..

i just want to make sure that those kinds of expectations don't get  
broken.

> In your case, I would suggest to just get a GLASS
> (http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/) and use it, no need to use or  
> setup
>

checking this out now..

thanks!



___________
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network analyst
red red design
419.281.8483

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

sergio_101-2
In reply to this post by Sebastian Sastre-2

On May 14, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Sebastian Sastre wrote:

> You are facing 2 paradigm shifts actually. The web framework which  
> is seaside,
> and persisting in an ODB which has *nothing* to do with seaside.


i kind of like the seaside framework MUCH better.. just because it's  
more like GUI programming.

in rails, i STILL feel like i am always programming a website.. with  
all the extra things you have to worry about..

seaside feels more like programming and application (in an app  
framework)..

thanks!


___________
sergio t. ruiz
network analyst
red red design
419.281.8483

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

Jason Rogers-4
You could also see if Cincom is still offering slots in their beta
program for WebVelocity.  They offer some of these things out of the
box.

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:16 AM, sergio_101
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On May 14, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Sebastian Sastre wrote:
>
>> You are facing 2 paradigm shifts actually. The web framework which is
>> seaside,
>> and persisting in an ODB which has *nothing* to do with seaside.
>
>
> i kind of like the seaside framework MUCH better.. just because it's more
> like GUI programming.
>
> in rails, i STILL feel like i am always programming a website.. with  all
> the extra things you have to worry about..
>
> seaside feels more like programming and application (in an app framework)..
>
> thanks!
>
>
> ___________
> sergio t. ruiz
> network analyst
> red red design
> 419.281.8483
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>



--
Jason Rogers

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of
the Son of God, who loved me, and gave
himself for me."
    Galatians 2:20
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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

sergio_101-2
In reply to this post by Dave Bauer-3

On May 14, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Dave Bauer wrote:

> It looks like Rails does not necessarily include every feature, and  
> Seaside, the web framework might not, but are there any optional  
> addons that people use? It seems like the responses always focus on  
> Seaside the web framework, and do not mention if there is any usable  
> code you can download that can add these type of



correct.. i think this is the question i was asking..

the rails equivalent of.. what gems/plugins are available?

___________
sergio t. ruiz
network analyst
red red design
419.281.8483

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

Ryan Simmons-2
In reply to this post by Jason Rogers-4
I see Magritte has already been mentioned.

We have been using Ramon Leon's SSForm in Gemstone, for edit/add forms
and find it easy to setup something quick and to customise where
necessary.

2009/5/14 Jason Rogers <[hidden email]>:

> You could also see if Cincom is still offering slots in their beta
> program for WebVelocity.  They offer some of these things out of the
> box.
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:16 AM, sergio_101
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On May 14, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Sebastian Sastre wrote:
>>
>>> You are facing 2 paradigm shifts actually. The web framework which is
>>> seaside,
>>> and persisting in an ODB which has *nothing* to do with seaside.
>>
>>
>> i kind of like the seaside framework MUCH better.. just because it's more
>> like GUI programming.
>>
>> in rails, i STILL feel like i am always programming a website.. with  all
>> the extra things you have to worry about..
>>
>> seaside feels more like programming and application (in an app framework)..
>>
>> thanks!
>>
>>
>> ___________
>> sergio t. ruiz
>> network analyst
>> red red design
>> 419.281.8483
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jason Rogers
>
> "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live;
> yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life
> which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of
> the Son of God, who loved me, and gave
> himself for me."
>    Galatians 2:20
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
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RE: rails niceties equivalents?

Sebastian Sastre-2
In reply to this post by sergio_101-2
> in rails, i STILL feel like i am always programming a
> website.. with  
> all the extra things you have to worry about..
>
> seaside feels more like programming and application (in an app  
> framework)..
>
> thanks!
>
exactly, you totally got it :)
have fun
sebastian

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RE: rails niceties equivalents?

Ramon Leon-5
In reply to this post by Ryan Simmons-2
> Subject: Re: [Seaside] rails niceties equivalents?
>
> I see Magritte has already been mentioned.
>
> We have been using Ramon Leon's SSForm in Gemstone, for edit/add forms
> and find it easy to setup something quick and to customise where
> necessary.

Found at...

MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/SentorsaSeasideForms'
    user: ''
    password: ''

For those who don't know, since I haven't really blogged about it.  It's a
form building superclass that lets you write as little code as possible to
get a form up and going and works with either your domain model object, or
the form itself acting as the model in cases where you just need a simple
form.  It's reflective and relies both on method naming patterns and pragmas
for customizing the form or simply overriding the auto-generated stuff on a
field by field basis with manually written custom code.

There's also some event based hooks so you can catch an auto-generated tag
and modify or ajax it up allowing you to customize without having to write
all the html manually.

There are 3 basic base classes that give different layouts, one based on CSS
using divs, one based on fieldsets where you can group fields, and one based
on tables where you can specify via a selector exactly what fields are in
each row.  There's a sample of each included for testing.

Ramon Leon
http://onsmalltalk.com

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by Philippe Marschall
Still philippe as a community it would be good to collect such (none  
Seaside) software
that can make Seaside adoption larger and get seasider happier.
Of course this is not the task of the seaside core dev to do that but  
it should encourage
it.
I imagine that an easy Glorp-based (but not Glorpish -- too verbose)
or sandstone like database or security layer.... would be welcome.

Stef



> 2009/5/14 sergio_101 <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> On May 14, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>>
>>> Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.
>>
>>
>>
>> right..
>>
>> i am just trying to figure out how to do similar things in seaside.
>
> The short answer is there's none. Seaside is just a web framework. It
> doesn't include any persistence stuff or security frameworks. The long
> answer is there are other frameworks like Magritte that can do similar
> things but are very different.
>
> Cheers
> Philippe
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by sergio_101-2
I understand this kind of concerns. They are natural!

Stef

On May 14, 2009, at 5:14 PM, sergio_101 wrote:

>
> On May 14, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Gerardo Richarte wrote:
>
>>   I also find the learning curve for using Smalltalk for webapps  
>> still
>> steeper than, say, rails or turbogears, anyway.
>>
>
> my main concern is..
>
> i work for a company.. i have done several HUGE projects in rails..  
> so they have an expectation as far as timing.. like.. they know that  
> we can have a skeleton admin system set up in an afternoon..
>
> i just want to make sure that those kinds of expectations don't get  
> broken.
>
>> In your case, I would suggest to just get a GLASS
>> (http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/) and use it, no need to use or  
>> setup
>>
>
> checking this out now..
>
> thanks!
>
>
>
> ___________
> sergio t. ruiz
> network analyst
> red red design
> 419.281.8483
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by Ramon Leon-5
Hi ramon

may be this is time to blog again :)
I know that lot of people would read it as they read your blog in the  
past :)

Stef

On May 14, 2009, at 7:18 PM, Ramon Leon wrote:

>> Subject: Re: [Seaside] rails niceties equivalents?
>>
>> I see Magritte has already been mentioned.
>>
>> We have been using Ramon Leon's SSForm in Gemstone, for edit/add  
>> forms
>> and find it easy to setup something quick and to customise where
>> necessary.
>
> Found at...
>
> MCHttpRepository
>    location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/SentorsaSeasideForms'
>    user: ''
>    password: ''
>
> For those who don't know, since I haven't really blogged about it.  
> It's a
> form building superclass that lets you write as little code as  
> possible to
> get a form up and going and works with either your domain model  
> object, or
> the form itself acting as the model in cases where you just need a  
> simple
> form.  It's reflective and relies both on method naming patterns and  
> pragmas
> for customizing the form or simply overriding the auto-generated  
> stuff on a
> field by field basis with manually written custom code.
>
> There's also some event based hooks so you can catch an auto-
> generated tag
> and modify or ajax it up allowing you to customize without having to  
> write
> all the html manually.
>
> There are 3 basic base classes that give different layouts, one  
> based on CSS
> using divs, one based on fieldsets where you can group fields, and  
> one based
> on tables where you can specify via a selector exactly what fields  
> are in
> each row.  There's a sample of each included for testing.
>
> Ramon Leon
> http://onsmalltalk.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

SeanTAllen
In reply to this post by sergio_101-2

On May 14, 2009, at 11:40 AM, sergio_101 wrote:

>
> On May 14, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Dave Bauer wrote:
>
>> It looks like Rails does not necessarily include every feature, and  
>> Seaside, the web framework might not, but are there any optional  
>> addons that people use? It seems like the responses always focus on  
>> Seaside the web framework, and do not mention if there is any  
>> usable code you can download that can add these type of
>
>
>
> correct.. i think this is the question i was asking..
>
> the rails equivalent of.. what gems/plugins are available?

its still very early in the game for this and there isnt a central  
repository.
its mostly via announcements to the list, people mentioning "i've done  
blah" in a message,
personal interaction, that sort of thing.

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

stephane ducasse
Probably this is the time to have a web page to collect them.

Stef

On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 PM, Sean Allen wrote:

>
> On May 14, 2009, at 11:40 AM, sergio_101 wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 14, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Dave Bauer wrote:
>>
>>> It looks like Rails does not necessarily include every feature,  
>>> and Seaside, the web framework might not, but are there any  
>>> optional addons that people use? It seems like the responses  
>>> always focus on Seaside the web framework, and do not mention if  
>>> there is any usable code you can download that can add these type of
>>
>>
>>
>> correct.. i think this is the question i was asking..
>>
>> the rails equivalent of.. what gems/plugins are available?
>
> its still very early in the game for this and there isnt a central  
> repository.
> its mostly via announcements to the list, people mentioning "i've  
> done blah" in a message,
> personal interaction, that sort of thing.
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

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Re: rails niceties equivalents?

SeanTAllen
it would seem to be a good time for that. i was watching the seaside  
list for 12 months before i really started a real project so i had a  
bit of a leg up
and i have a easily searched local location of all the messages which  
helps me, probably sucks to be a new person especially if you are  
coming from the very chatty, bloggy world of rails and ruby.

On May 14, 2009, at 4:31 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:

> Probably this is the time to have a web page to collect them.
>
> Stef
>
> On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 PM, Sean Allen wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 14, 2009, at 11:40 AM, sergio_101 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On May 14, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Dave Bauer wrote:
>>>
>>>> It looks like Rails does not necessarily include every feature,  
>>>> and Seaside, the web framework might not, but are there any  
>>>> optional addons that people use? It seems like the responses  
>>>> always focus on Seaside the web framework, and do not mention if  
>>>> there is any usable code you can download that can add these type  
>>>> of
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> correct.. i think this is the question i was asking..
>>>
>>> the rails equivalent of.. what gems/plugins are available?
>>
>> its still very early in the game for this and there isnt a central  
>> repository.
>> its mostly via announcements to the list, people mentioning "i've  
>> done blah" in a message,
>> personal interaction, that sort of thing.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

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1234