roassal + athens
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Hi,
I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? Cheers, _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic?
Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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Hi,
I do not quite understand your worries. Athens-Cairo has two parts: - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: Gofer new squeaksource: 'Athens'; package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; package: 'RoassalAthens'; load. ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. Cheers, Doru On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? > > Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. > > The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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The reason is that the day Athens will be in the image, then it is gonna to be messy because loading a particular version of Roassal will load a old version of Athens.
In Mondrian I played with that on some point when my changes on Morph where not in the mainstream. No need to see this happening again. Why not to load Athens from the Moose Configuration? Alexandre On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi, > > I do not quite understand your worries. > > Athens-Cairo has two parts: > - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. > - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. > > To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. > > Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? > > Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: > Gofer new > squeaksource: 'Athens'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > load. > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. > Gofer new > smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; > package: 'RoassalAthens'; > load. > ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >> >> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >> >> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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Hi,
Ok, now we get to a different argument. Placing the loading in Moose would break the encapsulation, and the ConfigurationOfMoose is already hard to handle. But, I think the solution would be to have ConfigurationOfRoassal conditionally load Athens only in Pharo 2.0. Would that work for you? Cheers, Doru On Apr 11, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > The reason is that the day Athens will be in the image, then it is gonna to be messy because loading a particular version of Roassal will load a old version of Athens. > In Mondrian I played with that on some point when my changes on Morph where not in the mainstream. No need to see this happening again. > > Why not to load Athens from the Moose Configuration? > > Alexandre > > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I do not quite understand your worries. >> >> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >> >> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >> >> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >> >> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >> Gofer new >> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >> load. >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >> Gofer new >> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >> load. >> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>> >>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>> >>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "No matter how many recipes we know, we still value a chef." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
+1
I do not understand the problem. Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. Stef On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi, > > I do not quite understand your worries. > > Athens-Cairo has two parts: > - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. > - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. > > To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. > > Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? > > Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: > Gofer new > squeaksource: 'Athens'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > load. > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. > Gofer new > smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; > package: 'RoassalAthens'; > load. > ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >> >> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >> >> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by abergel
>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? > > Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. why that? > I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. that you can load it and that you do not have to wait a year. > The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. This is a bad idea. Why do we have metacello for then? If roassal uses athens then it should load it, not moose. Stef > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by abergel
On Apr 11, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > The reason is that the day Athens will be in the image, then it is gonna to be messy because loading a particular version of Roassal will load a old version of Athens. Alex we have milestone for that. That day you will create a new baseline and this will be done. I did that for years with RefactoringBrowser (and worse I had to maintain the configuration which you do not have to do with athens). > In Mondrian I played with that on some point when my changes on Morph where not in the mainstream. No need to see this happening again. We are not talking about using a patched version of Athens. > Why not to load Athens from the Moose Configuration? Because it does not make sense to flatten everything. Did you look recently at the moose configuration? Why can we think modular? Stef > > Alexandre > > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I do not quite understand your worries. >> >> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >> >> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >> >> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >> >> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >> Gofer new >> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >> load. >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >> Gofer new >> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >> load. >> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>> >>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>> >>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
> But, I think the solution would be to have ConfigurationOfRoassal conditionally load Athens only in Pharo 2.0. Would that work for you?
What would be easy and quick to do, is to have a ConfigurationOfRoassalWithAthens with one baseline that loads the last version of Roassal and Athens. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
> I do not understand the problem.
> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. > > Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. Alexandre > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I do not quite understand your worries. >> >> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >> >> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >> >> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >> >> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >> Gofer new >> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >> load. >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >> Gofer new >> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >> load. >> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>> >>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>> >>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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Hi Alex, If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? This should be pretty fast, too.
Cheers, Doru On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right?
No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time Alexandre > > This should be pretty fast, too. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I do not understand the problem. > > Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. > > > > Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. > > Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. > > Alexandre > > > > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I do not quite understand your worries. > >> > >> Athens-Cairo has two parts: > >> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. > >> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. > >> > >> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. > >> > >> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? > >> > >> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: > >> Gofer new > >> squeaksource: 'Athens'; > >> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > >> load. > >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. > >> Gofer new > >> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; > >> package: 'RoassalAthens'; > >> load. > >> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Doru > >> > >> > >> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > >>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? > >>> > >>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. > >>> > >>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Alexandre > >>> > >>> -- > >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Moose-dev mailing list > >>> [hidden email] > >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > >> > >> -- > >> www.tudorgirba.com > >> > >> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Moose-dev mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Moose-dev mailing list > > [hidden email] > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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Hi guys
I crosspost because I hate when I get complains without having mails sent to the right forum. On Apr 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? > > No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. Sure do not report it to the mailing-list……. frankly I do not understand. How can we address problems if people do not report them? > I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. you know everything was in the examples since months. > I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. > > However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, sorry but I do not get how you can get roassal working with athens without having it depend on it because it would solve a lot of our modularity problem. > then we will have to deal with: > - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed we cannot do magic. May be then you should prepare a virtual image OS with the lib installed. We cannot install lib on all the platform of earth. Sorry but if there is not cairo installed what can we do? May be the install of Damien will handle such case. But if you use an OS for your lecture or students you should also have a look at it. Or do not use Pharo 2.0 but then you will use software that is one year old with around 1000 fixes not available. > - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM the DEFAULT Pharo VM works with cairo. so I do not get what you mean. > - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash On which platform? I do not get what you are saying. On mac I press the settings and it works. Alain is developing on linux so it should work too. > - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu May be damien will address your problem. but again why do not create a virtualize image containing a well install OS? > - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. For versionner again, even in 1.4 I cannot use it because most of the time I need handling of projects. > - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time This will be fixed but not now. Really? Not the moose people. The moose people complain about the speed of roassal not its loading. > Alexandre > >> >> This should be pretty fast, too. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> I do not understand the problem. >>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>> >>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >> >> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>> >>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>> >>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>> >>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>> >>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>> Gofer new >>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>> load. >>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>> Gofer new >>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>> load. >>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>> >>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>> >>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by abergel
For your information igor spent 6 months of design and coding to develop athens + the handle of cairo + improving nativeboost (fgting against bug in mac OSX in different versions) to make it work. Now I think that be you should wait that 3.0 is out.
But do not expect athens to be good if nobody use it. Stef >> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? > > No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. > I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. > > However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: > - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed > - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM > - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash > - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu > - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. > - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time > > Alexandre > >> >> This should be pretty fast, too. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> I do not understand the problem. >>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>> >>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >> >> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>> >>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>> >>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>> >>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>> >>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>> Gofer new >>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>> load. >>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>> Gofer new >>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>> load. >>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>> >>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>> >>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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BTW may be you misunderstand that Athens is not only cairo but also balloon (= the default rendering engine we have now).
So roassal should use the api of athens and then you can pass a different surface and you will get balloon code. So this means that for your student you should be able to have roassal (without cairo but athens) and it should work. You should just have to swicth canvas. Stef On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:53 PM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: > For your information igor spent 6 months of design and coding to develop athens + the handle of cairo + improving nativeboost (fgting against bug in mac OSX in different versions) to make it work. Now I think that be you should wait that 3.0 is out. > But do not expect athens to be good if nobody use it. > > Stef > >>> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? >> >> No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. >> I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. >> >> However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: >> - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed >> - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM >> - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash >> - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu >> - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. >> - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> This should be pretty fast, too. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> I do not understand the problem. >>>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>>> >>>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >>> >>> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>>> >>>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>>> >>>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>>> >>>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>>> >>>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>>> load. >>>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>>> load. >>>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>>> >>>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by abergel
Hi Alex,
I added an experimental baseline to show how we can load Athens on demand only (see below). I committed it to ConfigurationOfRoassal without modifying any symbolic version. To load as before, you just load the default: (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load To load with Athens, you do: (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load: 'WithAthens' I think this should address your concerns. But, as Stef pointed out, Athens should work with Balloon, too. Thus, RoassalMorphic could just work with that the Balloon backend quite nicely. What do you say? baseline16: spec <version: '0.6-baseline'> spec for: #'common' do: [ spec blessing: #'baseline'. spec description: ''. spec author: 'TudorGirba'. spec timestamp: '4/11/2013 22:03'. spec repository: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/ObjectProfile/Roassal/main'. spec package: 'Roassal'; package: 'RoassalMorphic' with: [ spec requires: 'Roassal' ]; package: 'RoassalAthens' with: [ spec requires: #('RoassalMorphic' 'Athens') ]. spec project: 'Athens' with: [ spec className: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; file: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; version: '2.0'; repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens' ]. spec group: 'default' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); group: 'Tests' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); group: 'WithAthens' with: #('RoassalAthens')]. Cheers, Doru On Apr 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? > > No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. > I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. > > However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: > - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed > - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM > - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash > - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu > - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. > - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time > > Alexandre > >> >> This should be pretty fast, too. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> I do not understand the problem. >>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>> >>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >> >> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>> >>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>> >>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>> >>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>> >>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>> Gofer new >>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>> load. >>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>> Gofer new >>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>> load. >>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>> >>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>> >>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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> I added an experimental baseline to show how we can load Athens on demand only (see below). I committed it to ConfigurationOfRoassal without modifying any symbolic version.
> > To load as before, you just load the default: > (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load > > To load with Athens, you do: > (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load: 'WithAthens' > > I think this should address your concerns. > > But, as Stef pointed out, Athens should work with Balloon, too. Thus, RoassalMorphic could just work with that the Balloon backend quite nicely. > > What do you say? I would be happy to. However the toolbox is telling me the following: Critical Warning: No version specified for the package 'RoassalAthens' in version '1.313' { noVersionSpecified } [ #validateVersionSpec: ] Warning: Symbolic version #development refers to a version'0.6-baseline' whose blessing #baseline is not #development { notDevelopmentVersion } [ #validateVersionSpecForSymbolicVersion:symbolicVersion: ] We need to fix this Alexandre > > > baseline16: spec > <version: '0.6-baseline'> > > spec for: #'common' do: [ > spec blessing: #'baseline'. > spec description: ''. > spec author: 'TudorGirba'. > spec timestamp: '4/11/2013 22:03'. > spec repository: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/ObjectProfile/Roassal/main'. > spec > package: 'Roassal'; > package: 'RoassalMorphic' with: [ spec requires: 'Roassal' ]; > package: 'RoassalAthens' with: [ spec requires: #('RoassalMorphic' 'Athens') ]. > spec project: 'Athens' with: [ > spec > className: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > file: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > version: '2.0'; > repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens' ]. > spec > group: 'default' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); > group: 'Tests' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); > group: 'WithAthens' with: #('RoassalAthens')]. > > > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Apr 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? >> >> No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. >> I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. >> >> However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: >> - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed >> - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM >> - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash >> - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu >> - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. >> - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> This should be pretty fast, too. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> I do not understand the problem. >>>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>>> >>>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >>> >>> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>>> >>>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>>> >>>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>>> >>>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>>> >>>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>>> load. >>>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>>> load. >>>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>>> >>>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
Yes this is the way :) or even to move to athens since this is the same api for balloon & cairo
On Apr 11, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Alex, > > I added an experimental baseline to show how we can load Athens on demand only (see below). I committed it to ConfigurationOfRoassal without modifying any symbolic version. > > To load as before, you just load the default: > (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load > > To load with Athens, you do: > (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load: 'WithAthens' > > I think this should address your concerns. > > But, as Stef pointed out, Athens should work with Balloon, too. Thus, RoassalMorphic could just work with that the Balloon backend quite nicely. > > What do you say? > > > baseline16: spec > <version: '0.6-baseline'> > > spec for: #'common' do: [ > spec blessing: #'baseline'. > spec description: ''. > spec author: 'TudorGirba'. > spec timestamp: '4/11/2013 22:03'. > spec repository: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/ObjectProfile/Roassal/main'. > spec > package: 'Roassal'; > package: 'RoassalMorphic' with: [ spec requires: 'Roassal' ]; > package: 'RoassalAthens' with: [ spec requires: #('RoassalMorphic' 'Athens') ]. > spec project: 'Athens' with: [ > spec > className: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > file: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > version: '2.0'; > repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens' ]. > spec > group: 'default' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); > group: 'Tests' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); > group: 'WithAthens' with: #('RoassalAthens')]. > > > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Apr 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? >> >> No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. >> I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. >> >> However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: >> - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed >> - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM >> - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash >> - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu >> - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. >> - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> This should be pretty fast, too. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> I do not understand the problem. >>>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>>> >>>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >>> >>> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>>> >>>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>>> >>>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>>> >>>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>>> >>>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>>> load. >>>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>>> load. >>>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>>> >>>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by abergel
Any news on that front? If no, then I will have to remove Athens from the configuration of roassal.
The Metacello toolbox complains about ConfigurationOfRoassal, which is not properly defined. Alexandre On Apr 12, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I added an experimental baseline to show how we can load Athens on demand only (see below). I committed it to ConfigurationOfRoassal without modifying any symbolic version. >> >> To load as before, you just load the default: >> (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load >> >> To load with Athens, you do: >> (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load: 'WithAthens' >> >> I think this should address your concerns. >> >> But, as Stef pointed out, Athens should work with Balloon, too. Thus, RoassalMorphic could just work with that the Balloon backend quite nicely. >> >> What do you say? > > I would be happy to. However the toolbox is telling me the following: > > Critical Warning: No version specified for the package 'RoassalAthens' in version '1.313' { noVersionSpecified } [ #validateVersionSpec: ] > > Warning: Symbolic version #development refers to a version'0.6-baseline' whose blessing #baseline is not #development { notDevelopmentVersion } [ #validateVersionSpecForSymbolicVersion:symbolicVersion: ] > > We need to fix this > > Alexandre > >> >> >> baseline16: spec >> <version: '0.6-baseline'> >> >> spec for: #'common' do: [ >> spec blessing: #'baseline'. >> spec description: ''. >> spec author: 'TudorGirba'. >> spec timestamp: '4/11/2013 22:03'. >> spec repository: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/ObjectProfile/Roassal/main'. >> spec >> package: 'Roassal'; >> package: 'RoassalMorphic' with: [ spec requires: 'Roassal' ]; >> package: 'RoassalAthens' with: [ spec requires: #('RoassalMorphic' 'Athens') ]. >> spec project: 'Athens' with: [ >> spec >> className: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >> file: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >> version: '2.0'; >> repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens' ]. >> spec >> group: 'default' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); >> group: 'Tests' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); >> group: 'WithAthens' with: #('RoassalAthens')]. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>>> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? >>> >>> No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. >>> I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. >>> >>> However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: >>> - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed >>> - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM >>> - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash >>> - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu >>> - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. >>> - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> This should be pretty fast, too. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> I do not understand the problem. >>>>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>>>> >>>>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >>>> >>>> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>>>> >>>>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>>>> >>>>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>>>> >>>>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>>>> Gofer new >>>>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>>>> load. >>>>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>>>> Gofer new >>>>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>>>> load. >>>>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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alex why don't take the time to try to fix it?
we are all busy and have our own agenda. For example, I arrived yesterday at 6 at home after five days teaching at Lviv and in 2 hours I will leave to go to lugano. Stef On Apr 14, 2013, at 4:20 AM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > Any news on that front? If no, then I will have to remove Athens from the configuration of roassal. > The Metacello toolbox complains about ConfigurationOfRoassal, which is not properly defined. > > Alexandre > > > On Apr 12, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> I added an experimental baseline to show how we can load Athens on demand only (see below). I committed it to ConfigurationOfRoassal without modifying any symbolic version. >>> >>> To load as before, you just load the default: >>> (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load >>> >>> To load with Athens, you do: >>> (self project version: '0.6-baseline') load: 'WithAthens' >>> >>> I think this should address your concerns. >>> >>> But, as Stef pointed out, Athens should work with Balloon, too. Thus, RoassalMorphic could just work with that the Balloon backend quite nicely. >>> >>> What do you say? >> >> I would be happy to. However the toolbox is telling me the following: >> >> Critical Warning: No version specified for the package 'RoassalAthens' in version '1.313' { noVersionSpecified } [ #validateVersionSpec: ] >> >> Warning: Symbolic version #development refers to a version'0.6-baseline' whose blessing #baseline is not #development { notDevelopmentVersion } [ #validateVersionSpecForSymbolicVersion:symbolicVersion: ] >> >> We need to fix this >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> >>> baseline16: spec >>> <version: '0.6-baseline'> >>> >>> spec for: #'common' do: [ >>> spec blessing: #'baseline'. >>> spec description: ''. >>> spec author: 'TudorGirba'. >>> spec timestamp: '4/11/2013 22:03'. >>> spec repository: 'http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/ObjectProfile/Roassal/main'. >>> spec >>> package: 'Roassal'; >>> package: 'RoassalMorphic' with: [ spec requires: 'Roassal' ]; >>> package: 'RoassalAthens' with: [ spec requires: #('RoassalMorphic' 'Athens') ]. >>> spec project: 'Athens' with: [ >>> spec >>> className: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>> file: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>> version: '2.0'; >>> repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens' ]. >>> spec >>> group: 'default' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); >>> group: 'Tests' with: #('Roassal' 'RoassalMorphic'); >>> group: 'WithAthens' with: #('RoassalAthens')]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>>> If I understand correctly, if we would get ConfigurationOfRoassal to load Athens only in Pharo 2.0, you would be satisfied, right? >>>> >>>> No, because if I download the Pharo from http://www.pharo-project.org/home (by clicking on the download button), install Roassal, then errors will show up, and this is what I want to avoid above everything else. >>>> I am a fierce advertiser of Athens. Thanks to Igor tutorial, my developing environment is Athens-based. I would like to see Athens widely used, yes. >>>> >>>> However, if I go a step further, such as making Roassal depends on Athens, then we will have to deal with: >>>> - students who simply clicked on the download webpage and see bugs appearing because the lib are not installed >>>> - telling where to download and how to install Igor's VM >>>> - telling the world how to install the free type fonts else Roassal will lamentably crash >>>> - have to test myself cairo on Ubuntu >>>> - fiddling ConfigurationOfRoassal to make it sure it works with 1.4 and trying to not get nervous because I will surely won't be able to save Roassal using Versionner anymore. >>>> - Answering complains that loading Roassal takes too much time >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>>> >>>>> This should be pretty fast, too. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> I do not understand the problem. >>>>>> Athens loads perfectly and all the VM are working. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now if you prefer to wait for about a year, it simply means that you do not need vector graphics. >>>>> >>>>> Roassal needs to be loadable in a 1.4 image. >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:48 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not quite understand your worries. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Athens-Cairo has two parts: >>>>>>> - the VM side: the plugin is already nicely bundled with the Pharo VM on all operating systems. >>>>>>> - the image side: the Athens canvas and Cairo binding are essentially working, but were not yet added to Pharo 2.0 because it was not tested enough at the time of the release. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To me, the largest problem is on the VM-side, and that was nicely solved. The image-side is solid already and will get into Pharo 3.0. But, in the meantime, I do not want to wait for another year until we can start to benefit from the nice capabilities of Athens. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you be more explicit as to why we should not make this default in Pharo Morphic? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Btw, it is not enough to just load Athens. Here is what I reverse engineered: >>>>>>> Gofer new >>>>>>> squeaksource: 'Athens'; >>>>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; >>>>>>> load. >>>>>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAthens) loadVersion: '2.0'. >>>>>>> Gofer new >>>>>>> smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal'; >>>>>>> package: 'RoassalAthens'; >>>>>>> load. >>>>>>> ROPlatform setCurrent: 'athens'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like to start adopting Athens behind Roassal. I believe there already is a binding. The question is what keeps us from adding Athens as a dependency to RoassalMorphic? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well... The way I see this is slightly different. Athens should be part of the runtime (i.e., included in Pharo) and not use as a library. I am not sure what we will gain to consider Athens as a separate Library. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Roassal<-->Athens bindings works well I think. We haven't spotted any problem. Just load Athens before loading Moose while Athens is not part of Pharo. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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