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snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

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Stéphane Ducasse

snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

Hi guys

Snapshotcello and MooseReloader fails on

((ConfigurationOfMoose project version: #development) ignoreImage: true; record)

It takes ages.

Can somebody confirm that this is the same problem?

Stef
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Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

Hi Stef,

What exactly are you trying to achieve here?

Adding more flattened snapshots to the ConfigurationOfMoose
is i.m.o. not a good idea. I've never found snapshotted
versions useable for development. Within a week there
were incompatible changes that break the snapshot version.

Snapshots can be a valuable artifact, and should be separate
from configurations.

Stephan

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stepharo

Re: snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

We CANNOT reproduce the versions we ship to clients and this DOOMED to
failure.

Snapshotting is key and it was working.
Having development belssing for development is ok only if you can
version versions when you want!
This is a basic principle to manage mess.
Else how can we maintain a product during a couple of years (Hakcing
carefully a fucking image?)
I'm a software engineering not an handcraft. Tools should work.

Stef

On 26/6/14 13:02, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

> Hi Stef,
>
> What exactly are you trying to achieve here?
>
> Adding more flattened snapshots to the ConfigurationOfMoose
> is i.m.o. not a good idea. I've never found snapshotted
> versions useable for development. Within a week there
> were incompatible changes that break the snapshot version.
>
> Snapshots can be a valuable artifact, and should be separate
> from configurations.
>
> Stephan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>

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Tudor Girba-2

Re: snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

Exactly.

Snapshotcello is meant to be used when you want to reproduce an image.

I believe the confusion in this discussion comes from Stephan referring to a snapshot as a means to define a dependency from other configurations. For that purpose it is not yet useful.

Doru

On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:32 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:

We CANNOT reproduce the versions we ship to clients and this DOOMED to failure.

Snapshotting is key and it was working.
Having development belssing for development is ok only if you can version versions when you want!
This is a basic principle to manage mess.
Else how can we maintain a product during a couple of years (Hakcing carefully a fucking image?)
I'm a software engineering not an handcraft. Tools should work.

Stef

On 26/6/14 13:02, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

Hi Stef,

What exactly are you trying to achieve here?

Adding more flattened snapshots to the ConfigurationOfMoose
is i.m.o. not a good idea. I've never found snapshotted
versions useable for development. Within a week there
were incompatible changes that break the snapshot version.

Snapshots can be a valuable artifact, and should be separate
from configurations.

Stephan

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www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

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DiegoLont

Re: snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

Exactly.

Snapshotcello is meant to be used when you want to reproduce an image.

I believe the confusion in this discussion comes from Stephan referring to a snapshot as a means to define a dependency from other configurations. For that purpose it is not yet useful.

I think the problems starts when you put snapshots in a configurations:

> they mess the configuration up.

> they cannot be maintained: they only freeze the situation.

I remember trying to fix this problem, but I came to the conclusion that the design for snapshot cello is not sound.

I came to the conclusion that they solve a different problem than configurations and therefore the result should not be put in the configuration!

I suggest we fix snapshot cello and make it produce a separate class called: “SnapshotOf…” and puts the snapshots in here. The input is a configuration, so maybe it is easier to inherit this class from the configuration, or keep a different reference, but the original configuration should remain untouched, so it keeps working.

Diego

We CANNOT reproduce the versions we ship to clients and this DOOMED to failure.

Snapshotting is key and it was working.
Having development belssing for development is ok only if you can version versions when you want!
This is a basic principle to manage mess.
Else how can we maintain a product during a couple of years (Hakcing carefully a fucking image?)
I'm a software engineering not an handcraft. Tools should work.

Stef

On 26/6/14 13:02, Stephan Eggermont wrote:

Hi Stef,

What exactly are you trying to achieve here?

Adding more flattened snapshots to the ConfigurationOfMoose
is i.m.o. not a good idea. I've never found snapshotted
versions useable for development. Within a week there
were incompatible changes that break the snapshot version.

Snapshots can be a valuable artifact, and should be separate
from configurations.

Stephan

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stepharo

Re: snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

> I suggest we fix snapshot cello and make it produce a separate class
> called: “SnapshotOf…” and puts the snapshots in here. The input is a
> configuration, so maybe it is easier to inherit this class from the
> configuration, or keep a different reference, but the original
> configuration should remain untouched, so it keeps working.
>
Yes this is a good idea. Snapshotcello is just useful when we want to
package/archive something for a client
if all the packages of Moose are not released/versionned.

I think that the real solution is to make sure that we can use versionner.
We started to do some experiences and this is really promising.

We can use the baseline when developing and when releasing freeze all
the versions to versions. Christophe was looking at the problem
with us and can address some problems.

In addition, we could have a ci job that check that there are newer
package in the repository than in the loaded one.
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Ben Coman

Re: snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

stepharo wrote:

>
>> I suggest we fix snapshot cello and make it produce a separate class
>> called: “SnapshotOf…” and puts the snapshots in here. The input is a
>> configuration, so maybe it is easier to inherit this class from the
>> configuration, or keep a different reference, but the original
>> configuration should remain untouched, so it keeps working.
>>
> Yes this is a good idea. Snapshotcello is just useful when we want to
> package/archive something for a client
> if all the packages of Moose are not released/versionned.
>
> I think that the real solution is to make sure that we can use
> versionner.
> We started to do some experiences and this is really promising.
>
> We can use the baseline when developing and when releasing freeze all
> the versions to versions. Christophe was looking at the problem
> with us and can address some problems.
>
> In addition, we could have a ci job that check that there are newer
> package in the repository than in the loaded one.
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>

I wonder if it would be possible for Snapshotcello output would be
useful to fed into Versioneer somehow?
cheers -ben

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stepharo

Re: snapshotcello ConfigurationOfMoose problems

>>
> I wonder if it would be possible for Snapshotcello output would be
> useful to fed into Versioneer somehow?

the problem is that snapshotcello loses the dependencies structure and
flattens everything so
this is worst solution. We did it because it was the quick and dirty way
to achieve what we want to freeze
but this is a dead-end conceptually to me.

> cheers -ben
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>

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