standard Smalltalk

There are some flavors of Smalltalk(Visualage
(ibm.com), Dolphin(www.object-arts.com),
Smalltalk MT(objectconnect.com), Object Studio
and Visual Works(cincom.com), Qks smalltalk
(qks.com), Squeak and ....)
Why not same set of classes for Interface(view),
Database, ...
Like java JODBC, Swing/Awt, and all.

Does Anybody known about library Smalltalk
Standard ?
How is it ?
When finished ?


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Before you buy.

> There are some flavors of Smalltalk(Visualage
> (ibm.com), Dolphin(www.object-arts.com),
> Smalltalk MT(objectconnect.com), Object Studio
> and Visual Works(cincom.com), Qks smalltalk
> (qks.com), Squeak and ....)
> Why not same set of classes for Interface(view),
> Database, ...
> Like java JODBC, Swing/Awt, and all.

First, JODBC, Swing, etc. have their share of problems, or we'd have all
long since been pulled into the Java world.  It's very difficult to make
things efficient and portable.  Java has been propelled by a HUGE amount of
money; the Smalltalk world would be hard pressed to compete, even with the
benefits of Smalltalk and without the burdens of strong typing.

Second, the various Smalltalk systems generally meet very different needs,
so there is an argument that portability between them isn't really needed.

VA is big and expensive, and has source-level portability.  VW is
image-portable, arguably big (though I was very impressed when I first saw
version 2.x run on fairly modest hardware for its time), and arguably
expensive.  IMHO, VW has some real license agreement problems right now, and
it's extremely unlikely that I would lobby for purchasing it.  Whether you
see one or two viable systems here, the theme is high-end systems with lots
of features and significant portability.

Smalltalk/X has some strong supporters and (I'm told) is worth a look.
Expect to struggle to get an executable out of it, but, the results are said
to be worth the effort.

QKS is warming up to .NET, though they apparently have a VM of their own
too.  *IF* .NET finds wide acceptance and provides good performance (I'm not
optimisitic on either front), then QKS will be in a good position to claim
they are portable too, at least to .NET platforms.  I very much doubt that
.NET will appear on Linux, because this could draw heavily from Windows'
installed base.

Squeak is a portable system that has a lot going for it.  The GUI is on the
slow side.  The big problem I have with it is that the GUI does not follow
modern conventions, and would be a tough sell to end users for many kinds of
applications.  Otherwise, it's free, open source, and Smalltalk.  I'll go
out on a limb to predict that eventually, Squeak running on (future) Linux
will out perform (future) Windows and an optimized Smalltalk running on
similar (future) hardware.

Dolphin and MT are Windows-specific systems.  MT's big advantage (and it can
also be a burden) is native threading.  IIRC, MT also has the ability to
build DLLs, etc..  Dolphin's "recent" addition of overlapped calls closes
the gap somewhat, at least for some kinds of applications.  I can see uses
for MT, but, when Dolphin suffices, I'd much sooner stay with it.

The current market is such that one picks the best fit and starts working.
As I referenced in an earlier post, OA has mentioned that they might be
interested in porting, or perhaps allowing ports of, MVP to other
Smalltalks.  If they decide to do that, it might provide a big piece of what
you want.  However, the harsh reality is that portable systems end up
working with the least common denominator of the their target platforms.

Windows is a good enough platform for my current purposes.  Eventually, I'd
like to see an Object Arts Smalltalk (which would probably *not* be a
Dolphin port) running on Linux.  My goal (others might see this differently)
is to get a more stable and less hardware-hungry OS under my server side
apps.

If you need portability, there are options available.

> Does Anybody known about library Smalltalk
> Standard ?
> How is it ?
> When finished ?

The "domain" classes are fairly portable even now, and the vendors seem to
be working to improve portability.  Porting a GUI has always been tough; at
least some Java users are more vendor-locked than they realize :)

Have a good one,

Bill

--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

> Does Anybody known about library Smalltalk
> Standard ?
> How is it ?
> When finished ?

The ANSI Smalltalk standard, which only deals with the core language, was
finished in early 1999. You can purchase the complete document on line at
the following URL for about (from memory) $25

http://www.cssinfo.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=56122

The final draft version was available on the net as well (for free) but I
don't know of any current locations you can download it from.

Ian

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:17:45 -0000, "Ian Bartholomew"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

Draft available here:

        ftp://www.smalltalksystems.com/sts-pub/x3j20/

--
Richard A. Harmon          "The only good zombie is a dead zombie"
[hidden email]           E. G. McCarthy