2012/2/10 Janko Mivšek
<[hidden email]>
Hi Bob,
You just inspired me to write down my vision and future plans for Aida,
:)
so let me start with that:
Main *Aida vision* from the start is to extend the Smalltalk philosophy,
elegance, simplicity, power to the web applications as well while
preserving all those beauties of Smalltalk.
I would really like to see Aida make coding in HTML/CSS/JavaScript a relic of the ancient past (I guess that would be Web 2.0 by now; what are we up to...4.0?)....
I like the direction WebSharper (F#) and LiftWeb (Scala) have been going. I really am intrigued by Amber, Cappuccino, and CoffeeScript. Aida web should 'Aid' in those kinds of experiments, only with Smalltalk and some kind of clean MVP pattern applied with rigour on the server and the client side.
I like the idea behind how Seaside maintains complex state. I am not terribly thrilled with replacing, rather than embracing, the realities of HTTP... it seems to me the overhead of that strategy will only be worth it till a cleaner way to do it RESTfully emerges.
And to be on the *bleeding edge of web technology* with Smalltalk all
the time. Which we are. I'm most proud that initial architecture was set
good enough to be adaptable through all that time since 1996 and that we
are not stuck even now supporting the current HTML5 wave.
That is an important plus. However, I'd like to see fewer bugs than have popped up, which give it the appearance of instability. For example, even now, if you want to put the Pharo-Aida-OneClick in a bad state, just log in as admin to the demo site, click Settings -> Sites, and try to go back, or navigate anywhere else. You'll need to invoke the following magical incantations:
SwazooServer stop.
AIDASite default releaseApplicationState.
SwazooServer start.
To you that's not a big deal, you know you've got a bug there. To a new person, that makes you wonder if the framework is stable. That kind of thing.
And here are the plans. Short-term, long-term? Well, we'll see :)
1. *Documentation*! It seems Aida core features are stable enough now
that we can document it and that this documentation will last for a
while without needing to update it constantly;
Yay! :)
2. More *HTML5*! like FileSystem, DragDrop, Video and Audio etc etc;
Excellent.
3. More *realtime*, actually realtime anything, everywhere. WebSocket
standard is now de-facto complete and in a year all browsers will
support it. What I mean by realtime anything, everywhere? Any data
you show everywhere on your web page will be updated in realtime,
that is, immediately when data changes. And this will be switched on
by default!
Good!
4 More *client*! That is, more processing moved to web client with
Amber Smalltalk. Here the end goal is to partition your app in
runtime where to run. All on server as now, all on client (and
offline), or parts on server, parts on client. Client parts are
"emitted" to Amber Smalltalk and sent to a client for execution;
Interesting.
5. More *local updating* at the client. On server only data is
updated while all dependent views are refreshed locally on client;
6. *Automatic forms building* out of domain model, with help of
forthcoming AidaFields by Nicolas Petton;
Oh, how I long for an Aida answer to Magritte! I really love the concept.
7. More *relational domain model* support;
Well, how about: just some decent support for the main persistence alternatives... in-image, GLORP, GemStone, etc.. Some kind of guidance here for noobs would be most helpful. Ahem. :)
8. More *JavaScript libraries* supported as Aida Addons;
I think the abstractions for JavaScript and CSS are not yet refined. There is some vision gap there in both Seaside and Aida.
9. Aida as provider of *REST-full web services* accessible from other
web or mobile apps
I have serious secure API needs for my applications. I feel rather insecure right now with Smalltalk vis a vis HTTPS.
10.*Cloud* support, Aida apps as both as client as service provider in
the cloud;
I like. :)
11.*Aida hosting*, both free and commercial.
Would be very nice if there was more of that, yes. :)
I think a twelfth point should be *Tooling*... it needs to be much more intuitive to build sites and apps on the sites in one or more images. A secure Web Development UI would be cool. Wizards in the development image for visualizing what's where would be really helpful.
- Bob
Best regards
Janko
S, Robert Calco piše:
> Janko,
>
> I was wondering if you could reveal any grand plans you might have for
> the future of Aida?
>
> What I like about Aida compared to Seaside is its relative simplicity
> and portability. Seaside uses features of Smalltalk that are not really
> portable between smalltalks to do its magic (continuations and pragmas
> being the big ones that I've noticed, which prevent it from being used
> fully in Dolphin, for example).
>
> It feels to me like Aida doesn't try to reinvent too many wheels,
> meaning it's a bit more accessible to people coming from, say, Rails,
> like myself. It has relatively more steak than sizzle, whereas Seaside
> has relatively more sizzle than steak. I like my steak rare ("still
> twitching" is what I tell waitresses at restaurants), so I don't care
> about sizzle so much. That said, my favourite way to prepare steak is
> 'black and blue' -- but it takes a rather industrial-size furnace to
> cook it that way, but, working for a charity, I usually only have a
> couple matches and a little kindling to start my fire pit. ;)
>
> What I don't like about Aida is the documentation, which is a bit
> scattered by topic and somewhat stream of consciousness. Seaside has
> Aida beat hands-down in this department. There are books, well-designed
> tutorials, lots of samples, etc. It's actually very hard, if you're me,
> to ignore that big plus for Seaside.
>
> I think Aida needs a much better, much more in-depth tutorial, that
> really highlights its best parts, and suggests where it's going to get
> better over time. I am not sure I like all the parts of Aida included --
> for example, I've been reviewing the (very involved) Parties/Roles
> packages and it encroaches a lot on my domain model, meaning I either
> have to use all of it or none of it. But maybe I have misinterpreted its
> design? Maybe it's better than my slogging in the code has revealed, and
> I should use it? Some documentation about the rationale for the
> abstractions chosen and how they're implemented would be nice.
>
> What I'd like to see in Aida is a greater commitment to REST and maybe
> XMLRPC API support (seems you're working on that one quite
> aggressively), more of an MVP vs MVC pattern for rendering, and perhaps
> support for rich web clients a la Amber (I see there is WebDAV support
> in Aida, so perhaps you're already intending to go that route), and
> better security (I really need to support HTTPS, and support API keys
> securely). Seaside has done a good job in its HTML API, but Aida's
> abstractions feel somewhat heavy (gazillions of methods). Some
> refactoring of that seems like it could be good.
>
> Neither framework handles layouts, look-feel, or any of the design
> intensive side of web development as nicely as I imagine it could be
> done. This could be an area for huge win in Aida, as I see you've tried
> to make it easy to reskin a site by supplying a new web style. However,
> I tried doing this with the demo app and only just mucked stuff up.
> Again, good documentation about this important area of implementation
> and some idea of what the end-goal is for it would be awesome.
>
> I'm willing to contribute but I need to get up and running and confident
> in what I'm doing still. It's been a bit of a ramp up. But I think I'll
> do well with this choice for what I need to do. I would just like to
> know what the future holds as I think there is still a lot of room for
> innovation in web development, and it doesn't all have to be heretical
> to be on the bleeding edge, so to speak. I'll feel better about Aida
> knowing that it's roadmap is a good one.
>
> - Bob
>
>
>
>
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--
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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