> I'm forwarding a response from Sebastien Paquet, posted on Nabble which
> has also problems sending posts to our mailing list. I'm investigating
> the problem ...
>
> 23:43, 09.Mar.2012 sebastien paquet
>
> HI,
>
> I recently started using Aida and learning Smalltalk at the same time
> and I have to say that I really believe in a great future for this
> framework and where it could go.
>
> I just did the blog tutorial that used to be on the Aida site and where
> the link is broken. I squinted my eyes over the clip on Youtube and did
> it. I realized that a couple things in the docs on the site and
> tutorials seem to have changed. I mean code wise. Sometimes I ll do
> exactly what It says and it doesn t work. I ll try something else and it
> does. I guess it could be related to the versions but I m not sure. So,
> I wish i could contribute and maybe write down the blog tutorial from
> the video, it s really good for showing how CRUD operations integrate
> with the framework. Also how to route the views.
>
> Aida is awesome and not that Seaside is not good but coming from Avi
> Bryant himself saying that its outdated as a lot of frameworks since it
> was built at a time when problems were different. I think Aida is
> different and can only get better especially when I hear people talking
> about integrating Amber on the client-side. Wow! Technology at its best
> and the future of the only real OOP language(!) looks bright.
>
>
> Dne 10. 02. 2012 16:37, piše Janko Mivšek:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> You just inspired me to write down my vision and future plans for Aida,
>> so let me start with that:
>>
>> Main *Aida vision* from the start is to extend the Smalltalk philosophy,
>> elegance, simplicity, power to the web applications as well while
>> preserving all those beauties of Smalltalk.
>>
>> And to be on the *bleeding edge of web technology* with Smalltalk all
>> the time. Which we are. I'm most proud that initial architecture was set
>> good enough to be adaptable through all that time since 1996 and that we
>> are not stuck even now supporting the current HTML5 wave.
>>
>> And here are the plans. Short-term, long-term? Well, we'll see :)
>>
>> 1. *Documentation*! It seems Aida core features are stable enough now
>>    that we can document it and that this documentation will last for a
>>    while without needing to update it constantly;
>>
>> 2. More *HTML5*! like FileSystem, DragDrop, Video and Audio etc etc;
>>
>> 3. More *realtime*, actually realtime anything, everywhere. WebSocket
>>    standard is now de-facto complete and in a year all browsers will
>>    support it. What I mean by realtime anything, everywhere? Any data
>>    you show everywhere on your web page will be updated in realtime,
>>    that is, immediately when data changes. And this will be switched on
>>    by default!
>>
>> 4 More *client*! That is, more processing moved to web client with
>>   Amber Smalltalk. Here the end goal is to partition your app in
>>   runtime where to run. All on server as now, all on client (and
>>   offline), or parts on server, parts on client. Client parts are
>>   "emitted" to Amber Smalltalk and sent to a client for execution;
>>
>> 5. More *local updating* at the client. On server only data is
>>    updated while all dependent views are refreshed locally on client;
>>
>> 6. *Automatic forms building* out of domain model, with help of
>>    forthcoming AidaFields by Nicolas Petton;
>>
>> 7. More *relational domain model* support;
>>
>> 8. More *JavaScript libraries* supported as Aida Addons;
>>
>> 9. Aida as provider of *REST-full web services* accessible from other
>>    web or mobile apps
>>
>> 10.*Cloud* support, Aida apps as both as client as service provider in
>>    the cloud;
>>
>> 11.*Aida hosting*, both free and commercial.
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>> Janko
>>
>>
>>
>> S, Robert Calco piše:
>>> Janko,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if you could reveal any grand plans you might have for
>>> the future of Aida?
>>>
>>> What I like about Aida compared to Seaside is its relative simplicity
>>> and portability. Seaside uses features of Smalltalk that are not really
>>> portable between smalltalks to do its magic (continuations and pragmas
>>> being the big ones that I've noticed, which prevent it from being used
>>> fully in Dolphin, for example).
>>>
>>> It feels to me like Aida doesn't try to reinvent too many wheels,
>>> meaning it's a bit more accessible to people coming from, say, Rails,
>>> like myself. It has relatively more steak than sizzle, whereas Seaside
>>> has relatively more sizzle than steak. I like my steak rare ("still
>>> twitching" is what I tell waitresses at restaurants), so I don't care
>>> about sizzle so much. That said, my favourite way to prepare steak is
>>> 'black and blue' -- but it takes a rather industrial-size furnace to
>>> cook it that way, but, working for a charity, I usually only have a
>>> couple matches and a little kindling to start my fire pit. ;)
>>>
>>> What I don't like about Aida is the documentation, which is a bit
>>> scattered by topic and somewhat stream of consciousness. Seaside has
>>> Aida beat hands-down in this department. There are books, well-designed
>>> tutorials, lots of samples, etc. It's actually very hard, if you're me,
>>> to ignore that big plus for Seaside.
>>>
>>> I think Aida needs a much better, much more in-depth tutorial, that
>>> really highlights its best parts, and suggests where it's going to get
>>> better over time. I am not sure I like all the parts of Aida included --
>>> for example, I've been reviewing the (very involved) Parties/Roles
>>> packages and it encroaches a lot on my domain model, meaning I either
>>> have to use all of it or none of it. But maybe I have misinterpreted its
>>> design? Maybe it's better than my slogging in the code has revealed, and
>>> I should use it? Some documentation about the rationale for the
>>> abstractions chosen and how they're implemented would be nice.
>>>
>>> What I'd like to see in Aida is a greater commitment to REST and maybe
>>> XMLRPC API support (seems you're working on that one quite
>>> aggressively), more of an MVP vs MVC pattern for rendering, and perhaps
>>> support for rich web clients a la Amber (I see there is WebDAV support
>>> in Aida, so perhaps you're already intending to go that route), and
>>> better security (I really need to support HTTPS, and support API keys
>>> securely). Seaside has done a good job in its HTML API, but Aida's
>>> abstractions feel somewhat heavy (gazillions of methods). Some
>>> refactoring of that seems like it could be good.
>>>
>>> Neither framework handles layouts, look-feel, or any of the design
>>> intensive side of web development as nicely as I imagine it could be
>>> done. This could be an area for huge win in Aida, as I see you've tried
>>> to make it easy to reskin a site by supplying a new web style. However,
>>> I tried doing this with the demo app and only just mucked stuff up.
>>> Again, good documentation about this important area of implementation
>>> and some idea of what the end-goal is for it would be awesome.
>>>
>>> I'm willing to contribute but I need to get up and running and confident
>>> in what I'm doing still. It's been a bit of a ramp up. But I think I'll
>>> do well with this choice for what I need to do. I would just like to
>>> know what the future holds as I think there is still a lot of room for
>>> innovation in web development, and it doesn't all have to be heretical
>>> to be on the bleeding edge, so to speak. I'll feel better about Aida
>>> knowing that it's roadmap is a good one.
>>>
>>> - Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Aida mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
>>
>