[tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
 
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Doru and Mariano,
I am in the process of adding a feature or two to GsDevKit_home[1], that will allow one to create arbitrary GemStone clients: createClient -t pharo gciClient -v Pharo-5.0 -s $GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston # create the client with GemStone-GCI loaded startClient gciClient # bring up the gciClient image ... The gciClient.ston file is a specification of the project(s) to be loaded into the pharo image, using the SmalltalkCI .smalltalk.ston[3] file. I have most of this working and will probably be merging it to master in the next day or so... I am also in the process of adding additional features to SmalltalkCI for being able to use travis-ci to test GemStone client/server setups where for example you can run the GT-tODE client tests against a GemStone server or in the case of GemStone-GCI use travis to run the tests using multiple Pharo versions ... The test specification is basically the same file as that used to load the client ($GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston), so there's no need to maintain separate load/test specifications ... In the mean time, apart from loading the GemStone-GCI into Pharo5.0, you'll need to copy the GemStone libgci* files from your todeClient directory ($GS_HOME/dev/slients/<name-of-tode-client>/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/libgci* to the pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins directory of your Pharo5.0 download ... Mariano will have to give you the details for supplying the login credentials to a running stone so that you can run the tests ... Dale [1] https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home/issues/93 [2] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI [3] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI#complete-smalltalkston-template On 3/31/16 12:46 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > How can I test this? > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Wow. This is great news! >> >> Doru >> >> >>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 4:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Of course, I also needed to copy the libssl* from my tODE vm to my Pharo 5.0 VM. >>> Now the testGciLogin is green :) >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Dale, I got the code of Esteban and continue with the port and trying to login I get the exception number 4147 and the message: SSL library initialization failed >>> >>> mmmmm there might be something related with that. Any bell? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 03/30/2016 10:52 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/30/16 7:25 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not confusing the GBS with GCI :). I am thinking of a remote IDE that has a different interface than tODE. >>>>> Very Cool! >>>>>> For this, I would need GCI and probably a layer of Proxies on top of it to allow us to work with objects remotely via OOPs. The Proxy layer would also be responsible for grouping shallow information to make rendering cheaper (like you do in tODE). >>>>> Have you thoughts on what the "layer of Proxies" would look like? I think the general problem is a pretty difficult nut to crack, but purpose-built "proxies" with a more meaningful/state-full presence in Pharo would be doable, I'd think ... TodeClientElements on steroids …. >>>> Precisely. I want to have a set of purpose-build proxies. For example, if we would have a GTInspector interface, for each tab, we would have a dedicated proxy with all the information needed for the presentation received in one single call. >>>> >>>> Also, I believe that we can also create a little infrastructure to make the creation of these custom proxies cheap. >>>> >>>>>> Does this make it interesting for you? >>>>> Haha, yes:) >>>> Great :). >>>> >>>> So, from my point of view the roadmap would be: >>>> 1. GCI in Pharo 5.0 >>>> >>>> Once GCI tests are green in 5.0, I think we should: >>>> >>>> 1.1) Re-structure Tugric so that to load GemStone-GCI project instead of his own packages >>>> 1.2) Test/stress new GemStone-GCI with Tugric tests >>>> 1.3) If all above works correctly, we should re-structure tODE too to use new GemStone-CGI ( in a development branch if you want) and see if we can make tODE to work in 5.0. >>> I agree with this to the extent that I will be compelled to do quite a bit of tODE client cleanup while porting to the new GCI. For the new GUI only the login and required bits need to be functional in Pharo-5.0. The timing of the cleanup and port of the standard tODE client to Pharo-5.0 isn't strictly a prerequisite to ongoing work for the new GUI and can go on in parallel... >>> >>> >>> Indeed, it's not a prerequisite per se but I thought that testing new GCI with tODE itself could be quite a good test besides the unit tests and the turgic. But indeed, the rest of items can go in parallel, I agree!!! >>> >>>> >>>> 2. Build proxies for the inspector >>>> 3. Extend GTInspector to present these proxies >>>> 4. See about the next steps :) >>>> >>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/29/16 10:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Dale, hi Mariano, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the very quick response. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Indeed, I am very happy that you want to start with porting GCI to Pharo 5.0. I would actually like to have a GT-based tools on top of GCI to provide a more seamless integration with Pharo. I hope that would be Ok with you. >>>>>>> What kind of tools are you thinking of? >>>>>>> The GCI is pretty low-level stuff, you wouldn't be confusing the GCI[1] with GBS[2] would you? >>>>>>> Where GBS provides support for full object repolication between a client and GemStone, the GCI is the low-level RPC-like API upon which GBS is built --- but there is quite a bit that goes into GBS that is over and above the GCI .. >>>>>>> We have no current plans to port GBS to Pharo --- it would be quite a bit of work ---- and the work that I am doing on Tugrik is aimed at providing Voyage-Mongo-style replication as a first step at making GemStone/S a persistence option for Pharo ... My plans were to start by duplicating the MongoTalk functionality so that GemStone could be plug compatible with Mongo, providing a transition path for applications to move from Mongo to GemStone/S.... But frankly I was not too sure how much work I would invest in duplicating the functionality of Mongo --- if one were to use GemStone/S instead of Mongo one could leverage the fact that Smalltalk is available on the server-side which would lead to a completely different model .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, if you were looking to do something along the lines of Tugrik then perhaps we should collaborate --- a "seamless integegration between Pharo and GemStone with GT-based tools in Pharo" is very appealing to me and I'd be willing to redirect my focus on that instead of Tugrik.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course you could be thinking of something entirely different :) >>>>>>> Dale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] https://downloads.gemtalksystems.com/docs/GemStone64/3.3.x/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.3.pdf >>>>>>> [2] https://gemtalksystems.com/products/gbs-vw/ >>>>>>>> About the port to UFFI, the API has changed a bit, but we can still easily map it to the existing one. For example: >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>>>>> it probably isn't." >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> www.feenk.com >>>> >>>> "We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. >>>> But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality." >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Obvious things are difficult to teach." >> >> >> >> > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. 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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: Doru and Mariano, YEs....and the libssl as I discovered yesterday. Doru, this is NOT intended as a real doc, but just writing the steps so that I don't forget... but you can see the README in https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/tree/50 BUt you must replace 3.0 by 5.0. Also...to load the code from GemStone-GCI you must NOW download it from MY fork and from branch 50. If I were you, I would wait a bit until things get easier for you to try them out. Mariano will have to give you the details for supplying the login credentials to a running stone so that you can run the tests ... You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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Hi Mariano,
Great. I will wait :). Please feel free to ping me when it’s a better time to look. Doru > On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: > Doru and Mariano, > > I am in the process of adding a feature or two to GsDevKit_home[1], that will allow one to create arbitrary GemStone clients: > > createClient -t pharo gciClient -v Pharo-5.0 -s $GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston # create the client with GemStone-GCI loaded > startClient gciClient # bring up the gciClient image ... > > The gciClient.ston file is a specification of the project(s) to be loaded into the pharo image, using the SmalltalkCI .smalltalk.ston[3] file. > > I have most of this working and will probably be merging it to master in the next day or so... > > I am also in the process of adding additional features to SmalltalkCI for being able to use travis-ci to test GemStone client/server setups where for example you can run the GT-tODE client tests against a GemStone server or in the case of GemStone-GCI use travis to run the tests using multiple Pharo versions ... The test specification is basically the same file as that used to load the client ($GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston), so there's no need to maintain separate load/test specifications ... > > In the mean time, apart from loading the GemStone-GCI into Pharo5.0, you'll need to copy the GemStone libgci* files from your todeClient directory ($GS_HOME/dev/slients/<name-of-tode-client>/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/libgci* to the pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins directory of your Pharo5.0 download ... > > > YEs....and the libssl as I discovered yesterday. > Doru, this is NOT intended as a real doc, but just writing the steps so that I don't forget... but you can see the README in https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/tree/50 > BUt you must replace 3.0 by 5.0. > Also...to load the code from GemStone-GCI you must NOW download it from MY fork and from branch 50. > If I were you, I would wait a bit until things get easier for you to try them out. > > > Mariano will have to give you the details for supplying the login credentials to a running stone so that you can run the tests ... > > Dale > > [1] https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home/issues/93 > [2] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI > [3] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI#complete-smalltalkston-template > > > On 3/31/16 12:46 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > How can I test this? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Wow. This is great news! > > Doru > > > On Mar 31, 2016, at 4:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Of course, I also needed to copy the libssl* from my tODE vm to my Pharo 5.0 VM. > Now the testGciLogin is green :) > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: > Dale, I got the code of Esteban and continue with the port and trying to login I get the exception number 4147 and the message: SSL library initialization failed > > mmmmm there might be something related with that. Any bell? > > Cheers, > > > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > On 03/30/2016 10:52 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi, > > > On Mar 30, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > On 3/30/16 7:25 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > I am not confusing the GBS with GCI :). I am thinking of a remote IDE that has a different interface than tODE. > Very Cool! > For this, I would need GCI and probably a layer of Proxies on top of it to allow us to work with objects remotely via OOPs. The Proxy layer would also be responsible for grouping shallow information to make rendering cheaper (like you do in tODE). > Have you thoughts on what the "layer of Proxies" would look like? I think the general problem is a pretty difficult nut to crack, but purpose-built "proxies" with a more meaningful/state-full presence in Pharo would be doable, I'd think ... TodeClientElements on steroids …. > Precisely. I want to have a set of purpose-build proxies. For example, if we would have a GTInspector interface, for each tab, we would have a dedicated proxy with all the information needed for the presentation received in one single call. > > Also, I believe that we can also create a little infrastructure to make the creation of these custom proxies cheap. > > Does this make it interesting for you? > Haha, yes:) > Great :). > > So, from my point of view the roadmap would be: > 1. GCI in Pharo 5.0 > > Once GCI tests are green in 5.0, I think we should: > > 1.1) Re-structure Tugric so that to load GemStone-GCI project instead of his own packages > 1.2) Test/stress new GemStone-GCI with Tugric tests > 1.3) If all above works correctly, we should re-structure tODE too to use new GemStone-CGI ( in a development branch if you want) and see if we can make tODE to work in 5.0. > I agree with this to the extent that I will be compelled to do quite a bit of tODE client cleanup while porting to the new GCI. For the new GUI only the login and required bits need to be functional in Pharo-5.0. The timing of the cleanup and port of the standard tODE client to Pharo-5.0 isn't strictly a prerequisite to ongoing work for the new GUI and can go on in parallel... > > > Indeed, it's not a prerequisite per se but I thought that testing new GCI with tODE itself could be quite a good test besides the unit tests and the turgic. But indeed, the rest of items can go in parallel, I agree!!! > > > 2. Build proxies for the inspector > 3. Extend GTInspector to present these proxies > 4. See about the next steps :) > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Mar 30, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > On 3/29/16 10:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi Dale, hi Mariano, > > Thanks a lot for the very quick response. > > Indeed, I am very happy that you want to start with porting GCI to Pharo 5.0. I would actually like to have a GT-based tools on top of GCI to provide a more seamless integration with Pharo. I hope that would be Ok with you. > What kind of tools are you thinking of? > The GCI is pretty low-level stuff, you wouldn't be confusing the GCI[1] with GBS[2] would you? > Where GBS provides support for full object repolication between a client and GemStone, the GCI is the low-level RPC-like API upon which GBS is built --- but there is quite a bit that goes into GBS that is over and above the GCI .. > We have no current plans to port GBS to Pharo --- it would be quite a bit of work ---- and the work that I am doing on Tugrik is aimed at providing Voyage-Mongo-style replication as a first step at making GemStone/S a persistence option for Pharo ... My plans were to start by duplicating the MongoTalk functionality so that GemStone could be plug compatible with Mongo, providing a transition path for applications to move from Mongo to GemStone/S.... But frankly I was not too sure how much work I would invest in duplicating the functionality of Mongo --- if one were to use GemStone/S instead of Mongo one could leverage the fact that Smalltalk is available on the server-side which would lead to a completely different model .... > > Anyway, if you were looking to do something along the lines of Tugrik then perhaps we should collaborate --- a "seamless integegration between Pharo and GemStone with GT-based tools in Pharo" is very appealing to me and I'd be willing to redirect my focus on that instead of Tugrik.... > > Of course you could be thinking of something entirely different :) > Dale > > [1] https://downloads.gemtalksystems.com/docs/GemStone64/3.3.x/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.3.pdf > [2] https://gemtalksystems.com/products/gbs-vw/ > About the port to UFFI, the API has changed a bit, but we can still easily map it to the existing one. For example: > Thanks, > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "If you can't say why something is relevant, > it probably isn't." > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. > But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality." > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Obvious things are difficult to teach." > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Presenting is storytelling." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. 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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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First commit that yields all green tests :) Dale...for my fork, I am working in a branch named "50". To push back to the upstream project (GsDevKit), do you want me to do it also in a new branch 50? or you prefer MASTER, or... ? Thanks, On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Mariano, You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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It depends, I want to preserve the implementation that works in
Pharo3.0/Pharo4.0, so at this point Id like to understand how much
commonality there is between the two implementations and then
package things appropriately ...
Dale On 03/31/2016 11:43 AM, Mariano
Martinez Peck wrote:
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote:
The code is quite different. So I would have one branch of GemStone-GCI for Pharo 3.0/4.0 (right now what it is in master) and one branch for Pharo 5.0.
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote:
BTW, I think my code is ready to give it a serious try (with Tugric if you want). Let me know where you want me to push. And soon... I have to attend my client software too..... hahahahaha
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
In that case I think it's best to combine and rename the packages
(i.e., save as a new name --- renaming the directories is not
sufficient and I haven't created a rename package option for tODE
... yet).
It's too difficult to manage cross branch projects ... I've done it with FileTree and I wish that I had taken a different route --- but trying to use Filetree and different branches for different platforms taught me that it's not a good option ... Dale On 03/31/2016 12:24 PM, Mariano
Martinez Peck wrote:
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
If you don't have time, I can pull from your branch at my leisure
... I'm pretty busy right now trying to get the smalltalkCI testing
issues cleaned up which are needed for GemStone-GCI, tODE, Tugrik,
Obex, to name a few ... Tugrik depends upon MongoTalk and Voyage and
I'm not even sure that those guys are ported to 5.0 yet either ;;;
Dale On 03/31/2016 12:27 PM, Mariano
Martinez Peck wrote:
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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OK...so I will let the code in 5.0 branch of my fork until you have some time for it. On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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In the meantime, I just tested the GCI port from Mariano, and I got it to run properly in a Pharo 5.0 against a test 3.3.0 stone. Thanks a lot!
Cheers, Doru > On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: > > OK...so I will let the code in 5.0 branch of my fork until you have some time for it. > > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: > If you don't have time, I can pull from your branch at my leisure ... I'm pretty busy right now trying to get the smalltalkCI testing issues cleaned up which are needed for GemStone-GCI, tODE, Tugrik, Obex, to name a few ... Tugrik depends upon MongoTalk and Voyage and I'm not even sure that those guys are ported to 5.0 yet either ;;; > > Dale > > > On 03/31/2016 12:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >> It depends, I want to preserve the implementation that works in Pharo3.0/Pharo4.0, so at this point Id like to understand how much commonality there is between the two implementations and then package things appropriately ... >> >> The code is quite different. So I would have one branch of GemStone-GCI for Pharo 3.0/4.0 (right now what it is in master) and one branch for Pharo 5.0. >> >> >> BTW, I think my code is ready to give it a serious try (with Tugric if you want). Let me know where you want me to push. >> And soon... I have to attend my client software too..... hahahahaha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dale >> >> >> On 03/31/2016 11:43 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> First commit that yields all green tests :) >>> >>> https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/commit/286c7812395482a02f550cc209705e93c3fcd280 >>> >>> >>> Dale...for my fork, I am working in a branch named "50". To push back to the upstream project (GsDevKit), do you want me to do it also in a new branch 50? or you prefer MASTER, or... ? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Hi Mariano, >>> >>> Great. I will wait :). Please feel free to ping me when it’s a better time to look. >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> > On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > Doru and Mariano, >>> > >>> > I am in the process of adding a feature or two to GsDevKit_home[1], that will allow one to create arbitrary GemStone clients: >>> > >>> > createClient -t pharo gciClient -v Pharo-5.0 -s $GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston # create the client with GemStone-GCI loaded >>> > startClient gciClient # bring up the gciClient image ... >>> > >>> > The gciClient.ston file is a specification of the project(s) to be loaded into the pharo image, using the SmalltalkCI .smalltalk.ston[3] file. >>> > >>> > I have most of this working and will probably be merging it to master in the next day or so... >>> > >>> > I am also in the process of adding additional features to SmalltalkCI for being able to use travis-ci to test GemStone client/server setups where for example you can run the GT-tODE client tests against a GemStone server or in the case of GemStone-GCI use travis to run the tests using multiple Pharo versions ... The test specification is basically the same file as that used to load the client ($GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston), so there's no need to maintain separate load/test specifications ... >>> > >>> > In the mean time, apart from loading the GemStone-GCI into Pharo5.0, you'll need to copy the GemStone libgci* files from your todeClient directory ($GS_HOME/dev/slients/<name-of-tode-client>/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/libgci* to the pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins directory of your Pharo5.0 download ... >>> > >>> > >>> > YEs....and the libssl as I discovered yesterday. >>> > Doru, this is NOT intended as a real doc, but just writing the steps so that I don't forget... but you can see the README in https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/tree/50 >>> > BUt you must replace 3.0 by 5.0. >>> > Also...to load the code from GemStone-GCI you must NOW download it from MY fork and from branch 50. >>> > If I were you, I would wait a bit until things get easier for you to try them out. >>> > >>> > >>> > Mariano will have to give you the details for supplying the login credentials to a running stone so that you can run the tests ... >>> > >>> > Dale >>> > >>> > [1] https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home/issues/93 >>> > [2] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI >>> > [3] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI#complete-smalltalkston-template >>> > >>> > >>> > On 3/31/16 12:46 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> > How can I test this? >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Doru >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Wow. This is great news! >>> > >>> > Doru >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mar 31, 2016, at 4:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Of course, I also needed to copy the libssl* from my tODE vm to my Pharo 5.0 VM. >>> > Now the testGciLogin is green :) >>> > >>> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > Dale, I got the code of Esteban and continue with the port and trying to login I get the exception number 4147 and the message: SSL library initialization failed >>> > >>> > mmmmm there might be something related with that. Any bell? >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On 03/30/2016 10:52 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> > >>> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mar 30, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 3/30/16 7:25 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > I am not confusing the GBS with GCI :). I am thinking of a remote IDE that has a different interface than tODE. >>> > Very Cool! >>> > For this, I would need GCI and probably a layer of Proxies on top of it to allow us to work with objects remotely via OOPs. The Proxy layer would also be responsible for grouping shallow information to make rendering cheaper (like you do in tODE). >>> > Have you thoughts on what the "layer of Proxies" would look like? I think the general problem is a pretty difficult nut to crack, but purpose-built "proxies" with a more meaningful/state-full presence in Pharo would be doable, I'd think ... TodeClientElements on steroids …. >>> > Precisely. I want to have a set of purpose-build proxies. For example, if we would have a GTInspector interface, for each tab, we would have a dedicated proxy with all the information needed for the presentation received in one single call. >>> > >>> > Also, I believe that we can also create a little infrastructure to make the creation of these custom proxies cheap. >>> > >>> > Does this make it interesting for you? >>> > Haha, yes:) >>> > Great :). >>> > >>> > So, from my point of view the roadmap would be: >>> > 1. GCI in Pharo 5.0 >>> > >>> > Once GCI tests are green in 5.0, I think we should: >>> > >>> > 1.1) Re-structure Tugric so that to load GemStone-GCI project instead of his own packages >>> > 1.2) Test/stress new GemStone-GCI with Tugric tests >>> > 1.3) If all above works correctly, we should re-structure tODE too to use new GemStone-CGI ( in a development branch if you want) and see if we can make tODE to work in 5.0. >>> > I agree with this to the extent that I will be compelled to do quite a bit of tODE client cleanup while porting to the new GCI. For the new GUI only the login and required bits need to be functional in Pharo-5.0. The timing of the cleanup and port of the standard tODE client to Pharo-5.0 isn't strictly a prerequisite to ongoing work for the new GUI and can go on in parallel... >>> > >>> > >>> > Indeed, it's not a prerequisite per se but I thought that testing new GCI with tODE itself could be quite a good test besides the unit tests and the turgic. But indeed, the rest of items can go in parallel, I agree!!! >>> > >>> > >>> > 2. Build proxies for the inspector >>> > 3. Extend GTInspector to present these proxies >>> > 4. See about the next steps :) >>> > >>> > What do you think? >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Doru >>> > >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Doru >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mar 30, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 3/29/16 10:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> > Hi Dale, hi Mariano, >>> > >>> > Thanks a lot for the very quick response. >>> > >>> > Indeed, I am very happy that you want to start with porting GCI to Pharo 5.0. I would actually like to have a GT-based tools on top of GCI to provide a more seamless integration with Pharo. I hope that would be Ok with you. >>> > What kind of tools are you thinking of? >>> > The GCI is pretty low-level stuff, you wouldn't be confusing the GCI[1] with GBS[2] would you? >>> > Where GBS provides support for full object repolication between a client and GemStone, the GCI is the low-level RPC-like API upon which GBS is built --- but there is quite a bit that goes into GBS that is over and above the GCI .. >>> > We have no current plans to port GBS to Pharo --- it would be quite a bit of work ---- and the work that I am doing on Tugrik is aimed at providing Voyage-Mongo-style replication as a first step at making GemStone/S a persistence option for Pharo ... My plans were to start by duplicating the MongoTalk functionality so that GemStone could be plug compatible with Mongo, providing a transition path for applications to move from Mongo to GemStone/S.... But frankly I was not too sure how much work I would invest in duplicating the functionality of Mongo --- if one were to use GemStone/S instead of Mongo one could leverage the fact that Smalltalk is available on the server-side which would lead to a completely different model .... >>> > >>> > Anyway, if you were looking to do something along the lines of Tugrik then perhaps we should collaborate --- a "seamless integegration between Pharo and GemStone with GT-based tools in Pharo" is very appealing to me and I'd be willing to redirect my focus on that instead of Tugrik.... >>> > >>> > Of course you could be thinking of something entirely different :) >>> > Dale >>> > >>> > [1] https://downloads.gemtalksystems.com/docs/GemStone64/3.3.x/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.3.pdf >>> > [2] https://gemtalksystems.com/products/gbs-vw/ >>> > About the port to UFFI, the API has changed a bit, but we can still easily map it to the existing one. For example: >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > -- >>> > www.tudorgirba.com >>> > www.feenk.com >>> > >>> > "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>> > it probably isn't." >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > -- >>> > www.tudorgirba.com >>> > www.feenk.com >>> > >>> > "We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. >>> > But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality." >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Mariano >>> > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Mariano >>> > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Mariano >>> > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Mariano >>> > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > -- >>> > www.tudorgirba.com >>> > www.feenk.com >>> > >>> > "Obvious things are difficult to teach." >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > www.tudorgirba.com >>> > www.feenk.com >>> > >>> > "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Mariano >>> > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "Presenting is storytelling." >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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Good work Mariano!
Doru, FYI, the full GCI API is not present in GemStone-GCI (yet) ... I was adding function calls as needed, but the calls that are implemented cover a good chunk of the funcationality needed ... Dale On 03/31/2016 01:48 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > In the meantime, I just tested the GCI port from Mariano, and I got it to run properly in a Pharo 5.0 against a test 3.3.0 stone. Thanks a lot! > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> OK...so I will let the code in 5.0 branch of my fork until you have some time for it. >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >> If you don't have time, I can pull from your branch at my leisure ... I'm pretty busy right now trying to get the smalltalkCI testing issues cleaned up which are needed for GemStone-GCI, tODE, Tugrik, Obex, to name a few ... Tugrik depends upon MongoTalk and Voyage and I'm not even sure that those guys are ported to 5.0 yet either ;;; >> >> Dale >> >> >> On 03/31/2016 12:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> It depends, I want to preserve the implementation that works in Pharo3.0/Pharo4.0, so at this point Id like to understand how much commonality there is between the two implementations and then package things appropriately ... >>> >>> The code is quite different. So I would have one branch of GemStone-GCI for Pharo 3.0/4.0 (right now what it is in master) and one branch for Pharo 5.0. >>> >>> >>> BTW, I think my code is ready to give it a serious try (with Tugric if you want). Let me know where you want me to push. >>> And soon... I have to attend my client software too..... hahahahaha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> >>> On 03/31/2016 11:43 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>> First commit that yields all green tests :) >>>> >>>> https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/commit/286c7812395482a02f550cc209705e93c3fcd280 >>>> >>>> >>>> Dale...for my fork, I am working in a branch named "50". To push back to the upstream project (GsDevKit), do you want me to do it also in a new branch 50? or you prefer MASTER, or... ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Hi Mariano, >>>> >>>> Great. I will wait :). Please feel free to ping me when it’s a better time to look. >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Doru and Mariano, >>>>> >>>>> I am in the process of adding a feature or two to GsDevKit_home[1], that will allow one to create arbitrary GemStone clients: >>>>> >>>>> createClient -t pharo gciClient -v Pharo-5.0 -s $GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston # create the client with GemStone-GCI loaded >>>>> startClient gciClient # bring up the gciClient image ... >>>>> >>>>> The gciClient.ston file is a specification of the project(s) to be loaded into the pharo image, using the SmalltalkCI .smalltalk.ston[3] file. >>>>> >>>>> I have most of this working and will probably be merging it to master in the next day or so... >>>>> >>>>> I am also in the process of adding additional features to SmalltalkCI for being able to use travis-ci to test GemStone client/server setups where for example you can run the GT-tODE client tests against a GemStone server or in the case of GemStone-GCI use travis to run the tests using multiple Pharo versions ... The test specification is basically the same file as that used to load the client ($GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston), so there's no need to maintain separate load/test specifications ... >>>>> >>>>> In the mean time, apart from loading the GemStone-GCI into Pharo5.0, you'll need to copy the GemStone libgci* files from your todeClient directory ($GS_HOME/dev/slients/<name-of-tode-client>/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/libgci* to the pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins directory of your Pharo5.0 download ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> YEs....and the libssl as I discovered yesterday. >>>>> Doru, this is NOT intended as a real doc, but just writing the steps so that I don't forget... but you can see the README in https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/tree/50 >>>>> BUt you must replace 3.0 by 5.0. >>>>> Also...to load the code from GemStone-GCI you must NOW download it from MY fork and from branch 50. >>>>> If I were you, I would wait a bit until things get easier for you to try them out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mariano will have to give you the details for supplying the login credentials to a running stone so that you can run the tests ... >>>>> >>>>> Dale >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home/issues/93 >>>>> [2] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI >>>>> [3] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI#complete-smalltalkston-template >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/31/16 12:46 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>> How can I test this? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Wow. This is great news! >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 4:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Of course, I also needed to copy the libssl* from my tODE vm to my Pharo 5.0 VM. >>>>> Now the testGciLogin is green :) >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Dale, I got the code of Esteban and continue with the port and trying to login I get the exception number 4147 and the message: SSL library initialization failed >>>>> >>>>> mmmmm there might be something related with that. Any bell? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 03/30/2016 10:52 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/30/16 7:25 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I am not confusing the GBS with GCI :). I am thinking of a remote IDE that has a different interface than tODE. >>>>> Very Cool! >>>>> For this, I would need GCI and probably a layer of Proxies on top of it to allow us to work with objects remotely via OOPs. The Proxy layer would also be responsible for grouping shallow information to make rendering cheaper (like you do in tODE). >>>>> Have you thoughts on what the "layer of Proxies" would look like? I think the general problem is a pretty difficult nut to crack, but purpose-built "proxies" with a more meaningful/state-full presence in Pharo would be doable, I'd think ... TodeClientElements on steroids …. >>>>> Precisely. I want to have a set of purpose-build proxies. For example, if we would have a GTInspector interface, for each tab, we would have a dedicated proxy with all the information needed for the presentation received in one single call. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I believe that we can also create a little infrastructure to make the creation of these custom proxies cheap. >>>>> >>>>> Does this make it interesting for you? >>>>> Haha, yes:) >>>>> Great :). >>>>> >>>>> So, from my point of view the roadmap would be: >>>>> 1. GCI in Pharo 5.0 >>>>> >>>>> Once GCI tests are green in 5.0, I think we should: >>>>> >>>>> 1.1) Re-structure Tugric so that to load GemStone-GCI project instead of his own packages >>>>> 1.2) Test/stress new GemStone-GCI with Tugric tests >>>>> 1.3) If all above works correctly, we should re-structure tODE too to use new GemStone-CGI ( in a development branch if you want) and see if we can make tODE to work in 5.0. >>>>> I agree with this to the extent that I will be compelled to do quite a bit of tODE client cleanup while porting to the new GCI. For the new GUI only the login and required bits need to be functional in Pharo-5.0. The timing of the cleanup and port of the standard tODE client to Pharo-5.0 isn't strictly a prerequisite to ongoing work for the new GUI and can go on in parallel... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, it's not a prerequisite per se but I thought that testing new GCI with tODE itself could be quite a good test besides the unit tests and the turgic. But indeed, the rest of items can go in parallel, I agree!!! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2. Build proxies for the inspector >>>>> 3. Extend GTInspector to present these proxies >>>>> 4. See about the next steps :) >>>>> >>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/29/16 10:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>> Hi Dale, hi Mariano, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks a lot for the very quick response. >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, I am very happy that you want to start with porting GCI to Pharo 5.0. I would actually like to have a GT-based tools on top of GCI to provide a more seamless integration with Pharo. I hope that would be Ok with you. >>>>> What kind of tools are you thinking of? >>>>> The GCI is pretty low-level stuff, you wouldn't be confusing the GCI[1] with GBS[2] would you? >>>>> Where GBS provides support for full object repolication between a client and GemStone, the GCI is the low-level RPC-like API upon which GBS is built --- but there is quite a bit that goes into GBS that is over and above the GCI .. >>>>> We have no current plans to port GBS to Pharo --- it would be quite a bit of work ---- and the work that I am doing on Tugrik is aimed at providing Voyage-Mongo-style replication as a first step at making GemStone/S a persistence option for Pharo ... My plans were to start by duplicating the MongoTalk functionality so that GemStone could be plug compatible with Mongo, providing a transition path for applications to move from Mongo to GemStone/S.... But frankly I was not too sure how much work I would invest in duplicating the functionality of Mongo --- if one were to use GemStone/S instead of Mongo one could leverage the fact that Smalltalk is available on the server-side which would lead to a completely different model .... >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, if you were looking to do something along the lines of Tugrik then perhaps we should collaborate --- a "seamless integegration between Pharo and GemStone with GT-based tools in Pharo" is very appealing to me and I'd be willing to redirect my focus on that instead of Tugrik.... >>>>> >>>>> Of course you could be thinking of something entirely different :) >>>>> Dale >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://downloads.gemtalksystems.com/docs/GemStone64/3.3.x/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.3.pdf >>>>> [2] https://gemtalksystems.com/products/gbs-vw/ >>>>> About the port to UFFI, the API has changed a bit, but we can still easily map it to the existing one. For example: >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>> >>>>> "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>>>> it probably isn't." >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>> >>>>> "We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. >>>>> But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality." >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>> >>>>> "Obvious things are difficult to teach." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>> >>>>> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> www.feenk.com >>>> >>>> "Presenting is storytelling." >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. 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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:12 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: Good work Mariano! Thanks Dale. I took me several hours but I think it has some nice improvements over the old version: 1) We do not have any FFI override 2) The way GsGciOopType is mapped now is much better (previous one using a ExternalStructure was a bit hackish) 3) The way we now map arrays in GsGci32xErrSType is much better too (Esteban had to add FFITypeArray for us) 4) I have added some improvements, like showing an error in case of login failure, validate if the init call was successful or not, etc 5) Added some new tests (only one so far) Doru, FYI, the full GCI API is not present in GemStone-GCI (yet) ... I was adding function calls as needed, but the calls that are implemented cover a good chunk of the funcationality needed ... I am willing to do another pass with the remaining parts. I really think I have already done most of the complicated part. So unless there are still missing some complicated structures to be mapped, I guess the remaining work is as Doru said, only change the #apicall:. I do have a tODE handy with the rest of the API, but I am not sure what is needed, and even less about the tests. I don't know if you wrote the tests of if they were already present in tODE, I don't remember. To conclude, tell me when there is a missing part of the lib, and I will continue with the port. If you can provide me a test with the failing part is easier as it is not always easy for me to write the unit test for the missing parts. Yes... not only I want Doru to be able to play with his stuff, or Tugrik or .. , but I do want that tODE does not get behind Pharo (it's almost already 2 stable versions behind when 5.0 is release...which is soon) Dale You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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On 03/31/2016 02:58 PM, Mariano
Martinez Peck wrote:
Very good! I was dismayed that FFI needed patches to get things to work :( no kidding:) Excellent! Very good ... I wrote the login code way before I wrote the error handling code and figured I'd eventually come back to it:) Good... At this point I think that GsGciOopType is the only real complicated structure that is used, so you've gotten us out of the woods! There are a handfull of client-tests for tODE, but because of a lack of a clean way to run client tests on travis, there weren't a lot of tests written ... with the work that I'm doing right now it will be very simple to arrange to run tests as well build client images for interactive or headless operations ... At this point I am making coordinated changes in GsDevKit_home and SmalltalkCI as the proof of concept work has already been done... The upshot is that when tODE gets ported to Pharo5.0 I will be adding tests as I go since I do intend on some significant clean up work ... as soon as I have tests and and a test running framework, I am willing to make major chagnes :) I'm pretty certain that I'll be able to add api calls as needed and if I run into trouble I won't hesitate to ask for your help ... I really appreciate the quick response and I'm glad that you knew enough about the new FFI interface to be able to tell the difference between a bug and feature and get the bugs fixed:) As I said earlier I have a number of balls in the air and I don't know how fast I'll be able to push tODE forward ... there are a number of projects that need SmalltalkCI support so I'm pretty much focusing on getting that work behind me ... when the smoke clears I'll have a better idea of where I will need to put my effort ... Well, technically tODE works in Pharo4.0, but the qualitative difference in tODE running in Pharo4.0 or Pharo3.0 was pretty much the same --- the place where I'm hoping that Pharo5.0 shows improvement is in the keyboard mapping --- I've seen messages on the pharo list where the keyboard mapping for Linux has finally been taken care of --- but I guess I'll only find out for real when I port tODE to Pharo5.0 ... I've got my fingers crosses that the keyboard mapping for Windows is better, but I won't hold my breath:) Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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Dale, My pleasure. OK then. I will go back to business code tomorrow..... buuuuuuhhh this was funnier hahahha. On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 8:57 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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In reply to this post by Dale Henrichs-3
Hi,
Indeed, I noticed that the GCI is not complete, but I figure that if it was enough for tODE, it should be enough for other similar tools. Just in case we need something else, I think a thorougher documentation of GCI can be found here: http://community.gemstone.com/download/attachments/6816350/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.0.pdf Is this correct? Cheers, Doru > On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:12 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Good work Mariano! > > Doru, FYI, the full GCI API is not present in GemStone-GCI (yet) ... I was adding function calls as needed, but the calls that are implemented cover a good chunk of the funcationality needed ... > > Dale > > On 03/31/2016 01:48 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> In the meantime, I just tested the GCI port from Mariano, and I got it to run properly in a Pharo 5.0 against a test 3.3.0 stone. Thanks a lot! >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> OK...so I will let the code in 5.0 branch of my fork until you have some time for it. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> If you don't have time, I can pull from your branch at my leisure ... I'm pretty busy right now trying to get the smalltalkCI testing issues cleaned up which are needed for GemStone-GCI, tODE, Tugrik, Obex, to name a few ... Tugrik depends upon MongoTalk and Voyage and I'm not even sure that those guys are ported to 5.0 yet either ;;; >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> >>> On 03/31/2016 12:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> It depends, I want to preserve the implementation that works in Pharo3.0/Pharo4.0, so at this point Id like to understand how much commonality there is between the two implementations and then package things appropriately ... >>>> >>>> The code is quite different. So I would have one branch of GemStone-GCI for Pharo 3.0/4.0 (right now what it is in master) and one branch for Pharo 5.0. >>>> >>>> >>>> BTW, I think my code is ready to give it a serious try (with Tugric if you want). Let me know where you want me to push. >>>> And soon... I have to attend my client software too..... hahahahaha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dale >>>> >>>> >>>> On 03/31/2016 11:43 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>>> First commit that yields all green tests :) >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/commit/286c7812395482a02f550cc209705e93c3fcd280 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dale...for my fork, I am working in a branch named "50". To push back to the upstream project (GsDevKit), do you want me to do it also in a new branch 50? or you prefer MASTER, or... ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Hi Mariano, >>>>> >>>>> Great. I will wait :). Please feel free to ping me when it’s a better time to look. >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> Doru and Mariano, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am in the process of adding a feature or two to GsDevKit_home[1], that will allow one to create arbitrary GemStone clients: >>>>>> >>>>>> createClient -t pharo gciClient -v Pharo-5.0 -s $GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston # create the client with GemStone-GCI loaded >>>>>> startClient gciClient # bring up the gciClient image ... >>>>>> >>>>>> The gciClient.ston file is a specification of the project(s) to be loaded into the pharo image, using the SmalltalkCI .smalltalk.ston[3] file. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have most of this working and will probably be merging it to master in the next day or so... >>>>>> >>>>>> I am also in the process of adding additional features to SmalltalkCI for being able to use travis-ci to test GemStone client/server setups where for example you can run the GT-tODE client tests against a GemStone server or in the case of GemStone-GCI use travis to run the tests using multiple Pharo versions ... The test specification is basically the same file as that used to load the client ($GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston), so there's no need to maintain separate load/test specifications ... >>>>>> >>>>>> In the mean time, apart from loading the GemStone-GCI into Pharo5.0, you'll need to copy the GemStone libgci* files from your todeClient directory ($GS_HOME/dev/slients/<name-of-tode-client>/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/libgci* to the pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins directory of your Pharo5.0 download ... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> YEs....and the libssl as I discovered yesterday. >>>>>> Doru, this is NOT intended as a real doc, but just writing the steps so that I don't forget... but you can see the README in https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/tree/50 >>>>>> BUt you must replace 3.0 by 5.0. >>>>>> Also...to load the code from GemStone-GCI you must NOW download it from MY fork and from branch 50. >>>>>> If I were you, I would wait a bit until things get easier for you to try them out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mariano will have to give you the details for supplying the login credentials to a running stone so that you can run the tests ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Dale >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home/issues/93 >>>>>> [2] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI >>>>>> [3] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI#complete-smalltalkston-template >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/31/16 12:46 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>> How can I test this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Wow. This is great news! >>>>>> >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 4:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, I also needed to copy the libssl* from my tODE vm to my Pharo 5.0 VM. >>>>>> Now the testGciLogin is green :) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> Dale, I got the code of Esteban and continue with the port and trying to login I get the exception number 4147 and the message: SSL library initialization failed >>>>>> >>>>>> mmmmm there might be something related with that. Any bell? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 03/30/2016 10:52 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/30/16 7:25 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not confusing the GBS with GCI :). I am thinking of a remote IDE that has a different interface than tODE. >>>>>> Very Cool! >>>>>> For this, I would need GCI and probably a layer of Proxies on top of it to allow us to work with objects remotely via OOPs. The Proxy layer would also be responsible for grouping shallow information to make rendering cheaper (like you do in tODE). >>>>>> Have you thoughts on what the "layer of Proxies" would look like? I think the general problem is a pretty difficult nut to crack, but purpose-built "proxies" with a more meaningful/state-full presence in Pharo would be doable, I'd think ... TodeClientElements on steroids …. >>>>>> Precisely. I want to have a set of purpose-build proxies. For example, if we would have a GTInspector interface, for each tab, we would have a dedicated proxy with all the information needed for the presentation received in one single call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I believe that we can also create a little infrastructure to make the creation of these custom proxies cheap. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this make it interesting for you? >>>>>> Haha, yes:) >>>>>> Great :). >>>>>> >>>>>> So, from my point of view the roadmap would be: >>>>>> 1. GCI in Pharo 5.0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Once GCI tests are green in 5.0, I think we should: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1.1) Re-structure Tugric so that to load GemStone-GCI project instead of his own packages >>>>>> 1.2) Test/stress new GemStone-GCI with Tugric tests >>>>>> 1.3) If all above works correctly, we should re-structure tODE too to use new GemStone-CGI ( in a development branch if you want) and see if we can make tODE to work in 5.0. >>>>>> I agree with this to the extent that I will be compelled to do quite a bit of tODE client cleanup while porting to the new GCI. For the new GUI only the login and required bits need to be functional in Pharo-5.0. The timing of the cleanup and port of the standard tODE client to Pharo-5.0 isn't strictly a prerequisite to ongoing work for the new GUI and can go on in parallel... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, it's not a prerequisite per se but I thought that testing new GCI with tODE itself could be quite a good test besides the unit tests and the turgic. But indeed, the rest of items can go in parallel, I agree!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. Build proxies for the inspector >>>>>> 3. Extend GTInspector to present these proxies >>>>>> 4. See about the next steps :) >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you think? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/29/16 10:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>> Hi Dale, hi Mariano, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks a lot for the very quick response. >>>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, I am very happy that you want to start with porting GCI to Pharo 5.0. I would actually like to have a GT-based tools on top of GCI to provide a more seamless integration with Pharo. I hope that would be Ok with you. >>>>>> What kind of tools are you thinking of? >>>>>> The GCI is pretty low-level stuff, you wouldn't be confusing the GCI[1] with GBS[2] would you? >>>>>> Where GBS provides support for full object repolication between a client and GemStone, the GCI is the low-level RPC-like API upon which GBS is built --- but there is quite a bit that goes into GBS that is over and above the GCI .. >>>>>> We have no current plans to port GBS to Pharo --- it would be quite a bit of work ---- and the work that I am doing on Tugrik is aimed at providing Voyage-Mongo-style replication as a first step at making GemStone/S a persistence option for Pharo ... My plans were to start by duplicating the MongoTalk functionality so that GemStone could be plug compatible with Mongo, providing a transition path for applications to move from Mongo to GemStone/S.... But frankly I was not too sure how much work I would invest in duplicating the functionality of Mongo --- if one were to use GemStone/S instead of Mongo one could leverage the fact that Smalltalk is available on the server-side which would lead to a completely different model .... >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, if you were looking to do something along the lines of Tugrik then perhaps we should collaborate --- a "seamless integegration between Pharo and GemStone with GT-based tools in Pharo" is very appealing to me and I'd be willing to redirect my focus on that instead of Tugrik.... >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course you could be thinking of something entirely different :) >>>>>> Dale >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] https://downloads.gemtalksystems.com/docs/GemStone64/3.3.x/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.3.pdf >>>>>> [2] https://gemtalksystems.com/products/gbs-vw/ >>>>>> About the port to UFFI, the API has changed a bit, but we can still easily map it to the existing one. For example: >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>>>>> it probably isn't." >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. >>>>>> But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality." >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mariano >>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mariano >>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mariano >>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mariano >>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Obvious things are difficult to teach." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mariano >>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>> >>>>> "Presenting is storytelling." >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:00 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi, Yes, and as for 3.1 and 3.2, there are the link already in https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/tree/50#gemstone-gci Is this correct? You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. |
Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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...and I've added a note about $GEMSTONE/include/gci.hf in the read
me.
On 4/1/16 5:33 AM, Mariano Martinez
Peck wrote:
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ohh yes, thanks. Because the page 72 of the doc is plain wrong. Not only in the missing field "reason" of the error type but also the values it mentions for the constants are also wrong. BTW, I have also planned to do another pass (don't know when) on the code, and add some documentation via method and class comments.
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Re: [tode_st] tODE & GCI in Pharo 5?
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
Doru,
Just as a fine point on this ... the GemStone-GCI implementation may not have all of the api needed by tODE --- it is awfully dang close --- as Tugrik was the target application for the rewrite ... but ... The hard work is behind us with GsGciOopType defined, error handling and virtually all of the special object conversion complete, the missing function calls shoudl be straightforward to convert as needed ... I would think that you could start your inspector experiments when I complete my smalltalkCI integration as you will be able to create and launch a Pharo image with GemStone-GCi and your application loaded ... the gci libraries handling will be automatically taken care of and I will have figured out how to define a default stone session description -- Dale On 4/1/16 12:00 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > Indeed, I noticed that the GCI is not complete, but I figure that if it was enough for tODE, it should be enough for other similar tools. > > Just in case we need something else, I think a thorougher documentation of GCI can be found here: > http://community.gemstone.com/download/attachments/6816350/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.0.pdf > > Is this correct? > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:12 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Good work Mariano! >> >> Doru, FYI, the full GCI API is not present in GemStone-GCI (yet) ... I was adding function calls as needed, but the calls that are implemented cover a good chunk of the funcationality needed ... >> >> Dale >> >> On 03/31/2016 01:48 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> In the meantime, I just tested the GCI port from Mariano, and I got it to run properly in a Pharo 5.0 against a test 3.3.0 stone. Thanks a lot! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> OK...so I will let the code in 5.0 branch of my fork until you have some time for it. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> If you don't have time, I can pull from your branch at my leisure ... I'm pretty busy right now trying to get the smalltalkCI testing issues cleaned up which are needed for GemStone-GCI, tODE, Tugrik, Obex, to name a few ... Tugrik depends upon MongoTalk and Voyage and I'm not even sure that those guys are ported to 5.0 yet either ;;; >>>> >>>> Dale >>>> >>>> >>>> On 03/31/2016 12:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> It depends, I want to preserve the implementation that works in Pharo3.0/Pharo4.0, so at this point Id like to understand how much commonality there is between the two implementations and then package things appropriately ... >>>>> >>>>> The code is quite different. So I would have one branch of GemStone-GCI for Pharo 3.0/4.0 (right now what it is in master) and one branch for Pharo 5.0. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BTW, I think my code is ready to give it a serious try (with Tugric if you want). Let me know where you want me to push. >>>>> And soon... I have to attend my client software too..... hahahahaha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 03/31/2016 11:43 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>>>> First commit that yields all green tests :) >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/commit/286c7812395482a02f550cc209705e93c3fcd280 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dale...for my fork, I am working in a branch named "50". To push back to the upstream project (GsDevKit), do you want me to do it also in a new branch 50? or you prefer MASTER, or... ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mariano, >>>>>> >>>>>> Great. I will wait :). Please feel free to ping me when it’s a better time to look. >>>>>> >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> Doru and Mariano, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am in the process of adding a feature or two to GsDevKit_home[1], that will allow one to create arbitrary GemStone clients: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> createClient -t pharo gciClient -v Pharo-5.0 -s $GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston # create the client with GemStone-GCI loaded >>>>>>> startClient gciClient # bring up the gciClient image ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The gciClient.ston file is a specification of the project(s) to be loaded into the pharo image, using the SmalltalkCI .smalltalk.ston[3] file. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have most of this working and will probably be merging it to master in the next day or so... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am also in the process of adding additional features to SmalltalkCI for being able to use travis-ci to test GemStone client/server setups where for example you can run the GT-tODE client tests against a GemStone server or in the case of GemStone-GCI use travis to run the tests using multiple Pharo versions ... The test specification is basically the same file as that used to load the client ($GS_HOME/sys/local/pharo/gciClient.ston), so there's no need to maintain separate load/test specifications ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the mean time, apart from loading the GemStone-GCI into Pharo5.0, you'll need to copy the GemStone libgci* files from your todeClient directory ($GS_HOME/dev/slients/<name-of-tode-client>/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/libgci* to the pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins directory of your Pharo5.0 download ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> YEs....and the libssl as I discovered yesterday. >>>>>>> Doru, this is NOT intended as a real doc, but just writing the steps so that I don't forget... but you can see the README in https://github.com/marianopeck/GemStone-GCI/tree/50 >>>>>>> BUt you must replace 3.0 by 5.0. >>>>>>> Also...to load the code from GemStone-GCI you must NOW download it from MY fork and from branch 50. >>>>>>> If I were you, I would wait a bit until things get easier for you to try them out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mariano will have to give you the details for supplying the login credentials to a running stone so that you can run the tests ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home/issues/93 >>>>>>> [2] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI >>>>>>> [3] https://github.com/hpi-swa/smalltalkCI#complete-smalltalkston-template >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/31/16 12:46 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>>> How can I test this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wow. This is great news! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 4:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course, I also needed to copy the libssl* from my tODE vm to my Pharo 5.0 VM. >>>>>>> Now the testGciLogin is green :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> Dale, I got the code of Esteban and continue with the port and trying to login I get the exception number 4147 and the message: SSL library initialization failed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mmmmm there might be something related with that. Any bell? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 03/30/2016 10:52 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/30/16 7:25 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not confusing the GBS with GCI :). I am thinking of a remote IDE that has a different interface than tODE. >>>>>>> Very Cool! >>>>>>> For this, I would need GCI and probably a layer of Proxies on top of it to allow us to work with objects remotely via OOPs. The Proxy layer would also be responsible for grouping shallow information to make rendering cheaper (like you do in tODE). >>>>>>> Have you thoughts on what the "layer of Proxies" would look like? I think the general problem is a pretty difficult nut to crack, but purpose-built "proxies" with a more meaningful/state-full presence in Pharo would be doable, I'd think ... TodeClientElements on steroids …. >>>>>>> Precisely. I want to have a set of purpose-build proxies. For example, if we would have a GTInspector interface, for each tab, we would have a dedicated proxy with all the information needed for the presentation received in one single call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, I believe that we can also create a little infrastructure to make the creation of these custom proxies cheap. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this make it interesting for you? >>>>>>> Haha, yes:) >>>>>>> Great :). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, from my point of view the roadmap would be: >>>>>>> 1. GCI in Pharo 5.0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Once GCI tests are green in 5.0, I think we should: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1.1) Re-structure Tugric so that to load GemStone-GCI project instead of his own packages >>>>>>> 1.2) Test/stress new GemStone-GCI with Tugric tests >>>>>>> 1.3) If all above works correctly, we should re-structure tODE too to use new GemStone-CGI ( in a development branch if you want) and see if we can make tODE to work in 5.0. >>>>>>> I agree with this to the extent that I will be compelled to do quite a bit of tODE client cleanup while porting to the new GCI. For the new GUI only the login and required bits need to be functional in Pharo-5.0. The timing of the cleanup and port of the standard tODE client to Pharo-5.0 isn't strictly a prerequisite to ongoing work for the new GUI and can go on in parallel... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Indeed, it's not a prerequisite per se but I thought that testing new GCI with tODE itself could be quite a good test besides the unit tests and the turgic. But indeed, the rest of items can go in parallel, I agree!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. Build proxies for the inspector >>>>>>> 3. Extend GTInspector to present these proxies >>>>>>> 4. See about the next steps :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do you think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/29/16 10:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Dale, hi Mariano, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the very quick response. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Indeed, I am very happy that you want to start with porting GCI to Pharo 5.0. I would actually like to have a GT-based tools on top of GCI to provide a more seamless integration with Pharo. I hope that would be Ok with you. >>>>>>> What kind of tools are you thinking of? >>>>>>> The GCI is pretty low-level stuff, you wouldn't be confusing the GCI[1] with GBS[2] would you? >>>>>>> Where GBS provides support for full object repolication between a client and GemStone, the GCI is the low-level RPC-like API upon which GBS is built --- but there is quite a bit that goes into GBS that is over and above the GCI .. >>>>>>> We have no current plans to port GBS to Pharo --- it would be quite a bit of work ---- and the work that I am doing on Tugrik is aimed at providing Voyage-Mongo-style replication as a first step at making GemStone/S a persistence option for Pharo ... My plans were to start by duplicating the MongoTalk functionality so that GemStone could be plug compatible with Mongo, providing a transition path for applications to move from Mongo to GemStone/S.... But frankly I was not too sure how much work I would invest in duplicating the functionality of Mongo --- if one were to use GemStone/S instead of Mongo one could leverage the fact that Smalltalk is available on the server-side which would lead to a completely different model .... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, if you were looking to do something along the lines of Tugrik then perhaps we should collaborate --- a "seamless integegration between Pharo and GemStone with GT-based tools in Pharo" is very appealing to me and I'd be willing to redirect my focus on that instead of Tugrik.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course you could be thinking of something entirely different :) >>>>>>> Dale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] https://downloads.gemtalksystems.com/docs/GemStone64/3.3.x/GS64-GemBuilderforC-3.3.pdf >>>>>>> [2] https://gemtalksystems.com/products/gbs-vw/ >>>>>>> About the port to UFFI, the API has changed a bit, but we can still easily map it to the existing one. For example: >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>>>>>> it probably isn't." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "We can create beautiful models in a vacuum. >>>>>>> But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Mariano >>>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Mariano >>>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Mariano >>>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Mariano >>>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Obvious things are difficult to teach." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Mariano >>>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Presenting is storytelling." >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mariano >>>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "tODE" group. 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