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try.squeak.org is in need of some love

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timrowledge

try.squeak.org is in need of some love

There’s been an interesting thread on the RaspberryPi forums where I’ve been arguing the benefits of Smalltalk. I tried pointing people to try.squeak.org but it seems they had a lot of problems working out what was going on and what to do. It certainly isn’t the prettiest page I’ve seen and it really doesn’t sell itself well.

I understand the urge to put the minisqueak image up as the first thing because it is so fast to get going, but it isn’t our best advert. Monochrome, no explanations, no guidance, nothing. Maybe if we made a version that introduced itself better and even provided a way to fire up some of the other examples it could actually replace almost the entire page content?

I also got complaints that attempting to click on any of the other image URLs failed, though no details. They do all seem to work for me, but again , it would be much more attractive if the demo versions were better set up.I was going to point people to http://blackpagedigital.com/squeak/ as well but like phil reported it seems to be dead right now. I know it was working early yesterday because Craig pointed me to it! Can’t get anything out of snowglobe either :-(

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange OpCodes: CCC: Crash if Carry Clear

John Pfersich-2

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

http://blackpagedigital.com/squeak/ loads OK for me, even on an iPad (admittedly not very well without a keyboard).

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 9, 2016, at 16:26, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:

to http://blackpagedigital.com/squeak/

timrowledge

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

> On 09-12-2016, at 4:41 PM, John Pfersich <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> http://blackpagedigital.com/squeak/ loads OK for me, even on an iPad (admittedly not very well without a keyboard).

Glad to hear it, but all I get is a black page...

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building

David T. Lewis

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

In reply to this post by timrowledge

You may need to give some context when you point folks at the try.squeak.org
page, and maybe give a warning concerning browser variations.

To me, try.squeak.org is absolutely amazing because I have a fairly good idea
of what it is doing, and I appreciate the value of extreme portability. After
all, squeakjs is already achieving a level of run-time portability that exceeds
anything that has ever been accomplished in any C-based VM /ever/.

But if I did not know that, and you just told me to go look at the web page,
I would be completely unimpressed.

Dave

On Fri, Dec 09, 2016 at 04:26:06PM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:

> There???s been an interesting thread on the RaspberryPi forums where I???ve been arguing the benefits of Smalltalk. I tried pointing people to try.squeak.org but it seems they had a lot of problems working out what was going on and what to do. It certainly isn???t the prettiest page I???ve seen and it really doesn???t sell itself well.
>
> I understand the urge to put the minisqueak image up as the first thing because it is so fast to get going, but it isn???t our best advert. Monochrome, no explanations, no guidance, nothing. Maybe if we made a version that introduced itself better and even provided a way to fire up some of the other examples it could actually replace almost the entire page content?
>
> I also got complaints that attempting to click on any of the other image URLs failed, though no details. They do all seem to work for me, but again , it would be much more attractive if the demo versions were better set up.I was going to point people to http://blackpagedigital.com/squeak/ as well but like phil reported it seems to be dead right now. I know it was working early yesterday because Craig pointed me to it! Can???t get anything out of snowglobe either :-(
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Strange OpCodes: CCC: Crash if Carry Clear
>
>
>

Craig Latta

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

In reply to this post by timrowledge

Hi Tim--

It's great that try.squeak.org is becoming good enough to criticize
at a larger scale. :) Maybe Bert's https://squeak.js.org is better for now.

> [Pages at blackpagedigital.com work for others but not for you,
> although they did yesterday.]

I'd be happy to look at it with you. There are probably better ways
of simulating region-specific user experiences than my own current
tests, too.

-C

--
Craig Latta
Black Page Digital
Amsterdam | San Francisco
[hidden email]
+31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
+ 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)

Tobias Pape

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

On 10.12.2016, at 05:26, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Tim--
>
> It's great that try.squeak.org is becoming good enough to criticize
> at a larger scale. :) Maybe Bert's https://squeak.js.org is better for now.

Maybe Bert could somehow sync those two?
He certainly has access to try.squeak.org :)

Best regards
-Tobas

>
>> [Pages at blackpagedigital.com work for others but not for you,
>> although they did yesterday.]
>
> I'd be happy to look at it with you. There are probably better ways
> of simulating region-specific user experiences than my own current
> tests, too.
>
>
> -C
>
> --
> Craig Latta
> Black Page Digital
> Amsterdam | San Francisco
> [hidden email]
> +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
> + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
>
>

timrowledge

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

In reply to this post by Craig Latta

> On 09-12-2016, at 8:26 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> [Pages at blackpagedigital.com work for others but not for you,
>> although they did yesterday.]
>
> I'd be happy to look at it with you. There are probably better ways
> of simulating region-specific user experiences than my own current
> tests, too.

It worked first time when we were talking on thurs but since then I see a pale yellow background for a moment and then it goes black… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful random insult:- Not enough sense to come in out of the rain.

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

Hi Craig, Tim,

> On Dec 10, 2016, at 11:05 AM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>>> On 09-12-2016, at 8:26 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> [Pages at blackpagedigital.com work for others but not for you,
>>> although they did yesterday.]
>>
>> I'd be happy to look at it with you. There are probably better ways
>> of simulating region-specific user experiences than my own current
>> tests, too.

Could the two of you not collaborate on setting up a demo image delivered via Snowglobe?

And Craig, why not SnowGlobe?

>
> It worked first time when we were talking on thurs but since then I see a pale yellow background for a moment and then it goes black… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Useful random insult:- Not enough sense to come in out of the rain.
>
>
>

Chris Muller-3

Re: try.squeak.org is in need of some love

In reply to this post by timrowledge

Didn't we include the ARM VM with Squeak 5.1? Why not point them to that?

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 6:26 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There’s been an interesting thread on the RaspberryPi forums where I’ve been arguing the benefits of Smalltalk. I tried pointing people to try.squeak.org but it seems they had a lot of problems working out what was going on and what to do. It certainly isn’t the prettiest page I’ve seen and it really doesn’t sell itself well.
>
> I understand the urge to put the minisqueak image up as the first thing because it is so fast to get going, but it isn’t our best advert. Monochrome, no explanations, no guidance, nothing. Maybe if we made a version that introduced itself better and even provided a way to fire up some of the other examples it could actually replace almost the entire page content?
>
> I also got complaints that attempting to click on any of the other image URLs failed, though no details. They do all seem to work for me, but again , it would be much more attractive if the demo versions were better set up.I was going to point people to http://blackpagedigital.com/squeak/ as well but like phil reported it seems to be dead right now. I know it was working early yesterday because Craig pointed me to it! Can’t get anything out of snowglobe either :-(
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Strange OpCodes: CCC: Crash if Carry Clear
>
>
>

Craig Latta

Snow*lobe (was "try.squeak.org is in need of some love")

In reply to this post by timrowledge

Hi--

Tim writes:

> [1] worked first time when we were talking on thurs, but since then I
> see a pale yellow background for a moment and then it goes black[2]...

Weird; we'll try to figure it out the next time we chat.

Eliot writes:

> Could the two of you not collaborate on setting up a demo image
> delivered via Snowglobe?

I'm up for it. Let's hash out the details off-list.

> And Craig, why not SnowGlobe?

Oh, I wanted to avoid another spelling like "GemStone" which
contributes to people writing "SmallTalk" instead of "Smalltalk". I
think "snowglobe" is common enough variant of "snow globe" in normal
prose. If "Snowglobe" isn't good, I'd rather use a different word and
theme entirely, and free from the temptation to use an embedded capital.
So we can't call it eXistenZ. :)

"Snowglobe" was in our communication about it for so long that I
thought you were okay with it.

thanks again,

-C

[1] http://blackpagedigital.com/squeak
[2] (YouTube video which isn't a screencast of the mentioned behavior :)

--
Craig Latta
Black Page Digital
Amsterdam :: San Francisco
[hidden email]
+31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
+ 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)