updateRoot: Weirdness

> Attached you will find FilesystemLink
>
> What does it do:
> Make a certain entry point point to a certain place on the file
> system. Very simple, very inefficient, very inflexible, very untested,
> very immature, very "reinvent-the-wheel". But half way portable to
> different dialects and webservers and integrates nicely into the
> Seaside environment without a single code change. So you're not forced
> to use Squeak and Kom.
>
> How does it work?
> - go to /seaside/config
> - add an entry point of type Filesystem Link
> - enter the directory to which the
> - save
> - go to your entry point
>
> Given all these issues I'd be surprised if anyone seriously considers
> using this. It's more proof on concept what an acceptable file serving
> solution for Seaside might look like once it has matured and acquired
> enough users and we agree that this in needed for Seaside.
>
> Philippe

>
> I know nothing about webservers so I cannot give you a lot of feedback.
> I just try to make some easy to develop and to deploy website using the
> smalltalk. I'll try to get some further with the documentation as
> indicated.
>
> @+Maarten,
>
>
> Janko Mivšek a écrit :
>> Hi Marteen,
>>
>> Maarten MOSTERT wrote:
>>
>>> I happened to load the Seaside Swazoo parcels this moring but
>>> hm....not so easy to start off. (some more parcel comment maybe)
>>
>> For Swazoo 1.0 there is a one page tutorial on a website, while for
>> forthcoming Swazoo 2.0 (currently in beta) there is already a bit more
>> comments on most important classes.
>>
>> And here you can help me a bit: what was your questions when you
>> loaded that parcel in the morning? What was your intentions on the
>> start? What did you want to achieve? Just look at it or maybe serve
>> some static web pages, make another virtual web site?
>>
>> By answering you will direct me to prepare a bit more docs on a web
>> site...
>>
>>> If Swazoo Seaside is the preferred configuration would it not be more
>>> cool that VW Seaside loads with Swazoo from the start and adds some
>>> Tool extension to get configured ? If I can rent like any dedicated
>>> server, upload a VW image and start business that would be really
>>> Cool . (Oké James I agree I' have to get a Licence in the mean time).
>>
>> Don't forget that Swazoo supports virtual websites, which enables web
>> hosting very easily...
>>
>> Best regards
>> Janko
>>
>>> Notice that now having some real Seaside tests in VW is really
>>> boosting understanding how things work excellent !
>>>
>>> @+Maarten,
>>>
>>>
>>>      > Message du 19/07/07 11:16
>>>      > De : "Janko Mivšek"
>>>      > A : "Seaside - general discussion"
>>>      > Copie à :
>>>      > Objet : [Seaside] Swazoo web server (was updateRoot: Weirdness)
>>>      >
>>>      > Dear Seasiders,
>>>      >
>>>      > Let me remind you that there is a web server in Smalltalk named
>>>     Swazoo
>>>      > (http://www.swazoo.org) and that it was recently ported to Squeak
>>>     too.
>>>      > All you need is to connect it to a Seaside. This can be done
>>> easily
>>>      > because it is already done by Michel Bany on VW Seaside.
>>>      >
>>>      > That way you get a nicely packed web app server, with easy, out
>>>     of the
>>>      > box installation. And from experience so far I can say that
>>>     Swazoo is
>>>      > capable to serve small to medium sized public web sites and all
>>>      > intranets. So, only for really big websites you need to start
>>>     thinking
>>>      > to go Apache or lighthttp way ...
>>>      >
>>>      > Best regards
>>>      > Janko
>>>      > Maintainer of Swazoo
>>>      >
>>>      >
>>>      > sig wrote:
>>>      > > On 19/07/07, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>>>      > >> 2007/7/19, sig :
>>>      > >> > As people says: don't put all of eggs in one basket.
>>>      > >> >
>>>      > >> > Serving all content from single image is nice, but its not
>>>     always
>>>      > >> achievable.
>>>      > >> >
>>>      > >> > As web server, Seaside must serve as front-end for
>>>     delivering content
>>>      > >> > on the web, but not dictate, the original source of content.
>>>      > >>
>>>      > >> Seaside is not a webserver and not a database layer. It is
>>> a web
>>>      > >> application development framework. Webservers live Apache for
>>>     lighttpd
>>>      > >> are preferable for serving static files because this is the
>>>     job they
>>>      > >> are really good at and optimized for. They are written in C
>>>     they use
>>>      > >> epoll/sendfile and multiple processors and caching and what
>>>     not. It is
>>>      > >> a simple one time investment that takes off load of your
>>>      > >> Squeak/Seaside image and gives it more time and resources to
>>>     do what
>>>      > >> it is good and optimized for: dynamic content. That doesn't
>>>     mean there
>>>      > >> is no place for a simple solution for simple problems. But at
>>>     the end
>>>      > >> of the day for any serious application you will need a
>>> standalone
>>>      > >> webserver.
>>>      > >>
>>>      > >
>>>      > > Hey, lets look to the roots: Seaside serving http requests. And
>>>     i can
>>>      > > assure you, that for 99% of the users in the world, thing which
>>>      > > serving http requests called web-server.
>>>      > > You may call it web application development framework or
>>>     anything you
>>>      > > want, but this will not makes any difference unless you stop
>>>     handling
>>>      > > http requests.
>>>      > > Its a layer, which delivers content to browsers using standard
>>>      > > protocol and from this point of view, it must be flexible
>>>     enough to be
>>>      > > able to deliver any content which developer wants to.
>>>      > >
>>>      > > And you saying 'standalone web server'.. It looks like you
>>>     insist that
>>>      > > seaside in 90% cases in not complete solution for _BASIC_ web
>>>      > > solutions?
>>>      > > Why it must force developer to use third party tools to be
>>>     complete?
>>>      > > Its better to be slow, as hog but be COMPLETE rather than
>>> flexible,
>>>      > > complex, but incomplete...
>>>      > >
>>>      > >
>>>      > >> Philippe
>>>      > >>
>>>      > >> > Is there something wrong with this concept?
>>
>
>
>

> After inspecting SwazooServer singleton, a site (aSeasideSite) and its
> uriPattern where aSiteIdentifier resists, I found it incorrectly set.
> This site identifier is somehow set by name of my local machine and
> external IP, but both should be 'localhost'. Or even better:
>
>     host:'locahost', ip:'127.0.0.1' port:8008
>
> If you change that site identifier manually and restart SwazooServer
> (SwazooServer stop; start), it will work correctly.
>
> Best regards
> Janko
>
> PS: Michel, would you correct that until next VW release?
>
>
>>
>> I know nothing about webservers so I cannot give you a lot of
>> feedback. I just try to make some easy to develop and to deploy
>> website using the smalltalk. I'll try to get some further with the
>> documentation as indicated.
>>
>> @+Maarten,
>>
>>
>> Janko Mivšek a écrit :
>>> Hi Marteen,
>>>
>>> Maarten MOSTERT wrote:
>>>
>>>> I happened to load the Seaside Swazoo parcels this moring but
>>>> hm....not so easy to start off. (some more parcel comment maybe)
>>>
>>> For Swazoo 1.0 there is a one page tutorial on a website, while for
>>> forthcoming Swazoo 2.0 (currently in beta) there is already a bit
>>> more comments on most important classes.
>>>
>>> And here you can help me a bit: what was your questions when you
>>> loaded that parcel in the morning? What was your intentions on the
>>> start? What did you want to achieve? Just look at it or maybe serve
>>> some static web pages, make another virtual web site?
>>>
>>> By answering you will direct me to prepare a bit more docs on a web
>>> site...
>>>
>>>> If Swazoo Seaside is the preferred configuration would it not be
>>>> more cool that VW Seaside loads with Swazoo from the start and adds
>>>> some Tool extension to get configured ? If I can rent like any
>>>> dedicated server, upload a VW image and start business that would be
>>>> really Cool . (Oké James I agree I' have to get a Licence in the
>>>> mean time).
>>>
>>> Don't forget that Swazoo supports virtual websites, which enables web
>>> hosting very easily...
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Janko
>>>
>>>> Notice that now having some real Seaside tests in VW is really
>>>> boosting understanding how things work excellent !
>>>>
>>>> @+Maarten,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      > Message du 19/07/07 11:16
>>>>      > De : "Janko Mivšek"
>>>>      > A : "Seaside - general discussion"
>>>>      > Copie à :
>>>>      > Objet : [Seaside] Swazoo web server (was updateRoot: Weirdness)
>>>>      >
>>>>      > Dear Seasiders,
>>>>      >
>>>>      > Let me remind you that there is a web server in Smalltalk named
>>>>     Swazoo
>>>>      > (http://www.swazoo.org) and that it was recently ported to
>>>> Squeak
>>>>     too.
>>>>      > All you need is to connect it to a Seaside. This can be done
>>>> easily
>>>>      > because it is already done by Michel Bany on VW Seaside.
>>>>      >
>>>>      > That way you get a nicely packed web app server, with easy, out
>>>>     of the
>>>>      > box installation. And from experience so far I can say that
>>>>     Swazoo is
>>>>      > capable to serve small to medium sized public web sites and all
>>>>      > intranets. So, only for really big websites you need to start
>>>>     thinking
>>>>      > to go Apache or lighthttp way ...
>>>>      >
>>>>      > Best regards
>>>>      > Janko
>>>>      > Maintainer of Swazoo
>>>>      >
>>>>      >
>>>>      > sig wrote:
>>>>      > > On 19/07/07, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>>>>      > >> 2007/7/19, sig :
>>>>      > >> > As people says: don't put all of eggs in one basket.
>>>>      > >> >
>>>>      > >> > Serving all content from single image is nice, but its not
>>>>     always
>>>>      > >> achievable.
>>>>      > >> >
>>>>      > >> > As web server, Seaside must serve as front-end for
>>>>     delivering content
>>>>      > >> > on the web, but not dictate, the original source of
>>>> content.
>>>>      > >>
>>>>      > >> Seaside is not a webserver and not a database layer. It is
>>>> a web
>>>>      > >> application development framework. Webservers live Apache for
>>>>     lighttpd
>>>>      > >> are preferable for serving static files because this is the
>>>>     job they
>>>>      > >> are really good at and optimized for. They are written in C
>>>>     they use
>>>>      > >> epoll/sendfile and multiple processors and caching and what
>>>>     not. It is
>>>>      > >> a simple one time investment that takes off load of your
>>>>      > >> Squeak/Seaside image and gives it more time and resources to
>>>>     do what
>>>>      > >> it is good and optimized for: dynamic content. That doesn't
>>>>     mean there
>>>>      > >> is no place for a simple solution for simple problems. But at
>>>>     the end
>>>>      > >> of the day for any serious application you will need a
>>>> standalone
>>>>      > >> webserver.
>>>>      > >>
>>>>      > >
>>>>      > > Hey, lets look to the roots: Seaside serving http requests.
>>>> And
>>>>     i can
>>>>      > > assure you, that for 99% of the users in the world, thing
>>>> which
>>>>      > > serving http requests called web-server.
>>>>      > > You may call it web application development framework or
>>>>     anything you
>>>>      > > want, but this will not makes any difference unless you stop
>>>>     handling
>>>>      > > http requests.
>>>>      > > Its a layer, which delivers content to browsers using standard
>>>>      > > protocol and from this point of view, it must be flexible
>>>>     enough to be
>>>>      > > able to deliver any content which developer wants to.
>>>>      > >
>>>>      > > And you saying 'standalone web server'.. It looks like you
>>>>     insist that
>>>>      > > seaside in 90% cases in not complete solution for _BASIC_ web
>>>>      > > solutions?
>>>>      > > Why it must force developer to use third party tools to be
>>>>     complete?
>>>>      > > Its better to be slow, as hog but be COMPLETE rather than
>>>> flexible,
>>>>      > > complex, but incomplete...
>>>>      > >
>>>>      > >
>>>>      > >> Philippe
>>>>      > >>
>>>>      > >> > Is there something wrong with this concept?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> So now I configure uncle bobs webserver, comanche whatever to serve my
> files instead... and the mechanism for switching to this better
> solution is?
>
> a) write my own class to generate urls which target the new server.
> UBFileLibrary-#/
> Replace all references to MyFileLibrary / fileSelector with
> UBFileLibrary, or perhaps put the hard wired urls in instead.
>
> Thats not really a solution (user/author/builder level) thats coding
> (programmer/architect level).
>
> Ok, so I want to write UBFileLibrary to reference my externally served
> files, where do I start. How much help do I have from 'seaside'
> itself. Is there an object somewhere I can simply change a
> configuration setting on to point to my new file server, or is some
> coding necessary? Ok if I am going to code something up who do I
> subclass. WAFileLibrary, or WALibrary, or in worst case start from
> scratch from Object?
>
> Ok if I subclass WAFileLibrary... the urls generated are hardwired to
> the class name! I have no choice my files have to be served at
> http://samehost/<entryPoint>/UBFileLibrary/logo.gif etc. This seems a
> little restrictive, if I want to change it, I would have to change the
> whole WALibrary implementation not to use the class name everywhere.
>
> Lets say I am at a university and they have a set up where I can put
> all my own website stuff on the public servers at
> myuniversity.ac.uk/~myaccount/logo.gif etc ? In that case I am
> definitely beyond the remit of any of the WALibrary classes, I have to
> start from scratch using Object, or put hard wired urls in my code.
>
> This leads me to my conclusion, apart from WAFileLibrary which is
> extremely limited in scope.
>
> 'Seaside the solution'  does not have any configurable solution for
> serving files/resources, and neither does 'seaside' the html generator
> have any solution for integrating with such a solution should it exist.
> So yes I stand by my observation that 'Seaside' lacks some basics of
> which file serving is the primary example, and 'seaside' is not
> providing any configurable hooks that could lead me to conclude it
> supports serving files either.

> Hi Marteen,
>
> Maarten MOSTERT wrote:
>
>> I happened to load the Seaside Swazoo parcels this moring but
>> hm....not so easy to start off. (some more parcel comment maybe)
>
> For Swazoo 1.0 there is a one page tutorial on a website, while for
> forthcoming Swazoo 2.0 (currently in beta) there is already a bit more
> comments on most important classes.
>
> And here you can help me a bit: what was your questions when you
> loaded that parcel in the morning? What was your intentions on the
> start? What did you want to achieve? Just look at it or maybe serve
> some static web pages, make another virtual web site?
>
> By answering you will direct me to prepare a bit more docs on a web
> site...
>
>> If Swazoo Seaside is the preferred configuration would it not be more
>> cool that VW Seaside loads with Swazoo from the start and adds some
>> Tool extension to get configured ? If I can rent like any dedicated
>> server, upload a VW image and start business that would be really
>> Cool . (Oké James I agree I' have to get a Licence in the mean time).
>
> Don't forget that Swazoo supports virtual websites, which enables web
> hosting very easily...
>
> Best regards
> Janko
>
>> Notice that now having some real Seaside tests in VW is really
>> boosting understanding how things work excellent !
>>
>> @+Maarten,
>>
>>
>>      > Message du 19/07/07 11:16
>>      > De : "Janko Mivšek"
>>      > A : "Seaside - general discussion"
>>      > Copie à :
>>      > Objet : [Seaside] Swazoo web server (was updateRoot: Weirdness)
>>      >
>>      > Dear Seasiders,
>>      >
>>      > Let me remind you that there is a web server in Smalltalk named
>>     Swazoo
>>      > (http://www.swazoo.org) and that it was recently ported to Squeak
>>     too.
>>      > All you need is to connect it to a Seaside. This can be done
>> easily
>>      > because it is already done by Michel Bany on VW Seaside.
>>      >
>>      > That way you get a nicely packed web app server, with easy, out
>>     of the
>>      > box installation. And from experience so far I can say that
>>     Swazoo is
>>      > capable to serve small to medium sized public web sites and all
>>      > intranets. So, only for really big websites you need to start
>>     thinking
>>      > to go Apache or lighthttp way ...
>>      >
>>      > Best regards
>>      > Janko
>>      > Maintainer of Swazoo
>>      >
>>      >
>>      > sig wrote:
>>      > > On 19/07/07, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>>      > >> 2007/7/19, sig :
>>      > >> > As people says: don't put all of eggs in one basket.
>>      > >> >
>>      > >> > Serving all content from single image is nice, but its not
>>     always
>>      > >> achievable.
>>      > >> >
>>      > >> > As web server, Seaside must serve as front-end for
>>     delivering content
>>      > >> > on the web, but not dictate, the original source of content.
>>      > >>
>>      > >> Seaside is not a webserver and not a database layer. It is
>> a web
>>      > >> application development framework. Webservers live Apache for
>>     lighttpd
>>      > >> are preferable for serving static files because this is the
>>     job they
>>      > >> are really good at and optimized for. They are written in C
>>     they use
>>      > >> epoll/sendfile and multiple processors and caching and what
>>     not. It is
>>      > >> a simple one time investment that takes off load of your
>>      > >> Squeak/Seaside image and gives it more time and resources to
>>     do what
>>      > >> it is good and optimized for: dynamic content. That doesn't
>>     mean there
>>      > >> is no place for a simple solution for simple problems. But at
>>     the end
>>      > >> of the day for any serious application you will need a
>> standalone
>>      > >> webserver.
>>      > >>
>>      > >
>>      > > Hey, lets look to the roots: Seaside serving http requests. And
>>     i can
>>      > > assure you, that for 99% of the users in the world, thing which
>>      > > serving http requests called web-server.
>>      > > You may call it web application development framework or
>>     anything you
>>      > > want, but this will not makes any difference unless you stop
>>     handling
>>      > > http requests.
>>      > > Its a layer, which delivers content to browsers using standard
>>      > > protocol and from this point of view, it must be flexible
>>     enough to be
>>      > > able to deliver any content which developer wants to.
>>      > >
>>      > > And you saying 'standalone web server'.. It looks like you
>>     insist that
>>      > > seaside in 90% cases in not complete solution for _BASIC_ web
>>      > > solutions?
>>      > > Why it must force developer to use third party tools to be
>>     complete?
>>      > > Its better to be slow, as hog but be COMPLETE rather than
>> flexible,
>>      > > complex, but incomplete...
>>      > >
>>      > >
>>      > >> Philippe
>>      > >>
>>      > >> > Is there something wrong with this concept?
>

>
> Thanks,
>
> @+Maarten,
>
> 2007/7/21, Maarten MOSTERT <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi,
>> I am trying to add a download button to my application to serve a 20MB
>> application file.
>
> The best way is to configure your webserver to serve files of this
> size. Ideally something like Apache or lighty that supports streaming,
> ideally sendfile. Your Squeak webserver might or might not be up to
> the job.
>
>> I don't manage figure out how to make button that triggers a download
>> dialog ?
>
> Buttons are not really well suited for this, anchors work way better.
> What probably is the most reliable thing is:
>
> renderContentOn: html
>    html form
>        with: [
>            html submitButton
>                callback: [ self session redirectTo:
> 'http://url.to/my.file ];
>                text: 'download' ]
>
>
>> I also wonder if MyFileLibrary is the right way to do so ?
>
> No, don't even think about it.
>
> Cheers
> Philippe
>
> Thanks in adavance,
> @+Maarten,
>
>
>
> Janko Mivšek a écrit :
>> Hi Marteen,
>>
>> Maarten MOSTERT wrote:
>>
>>> I happened to load the Seaside Swazoo parcels this moring but
>>> hm....not so easy to start off. (some more parcel comment maybe)
>>
>> For Swazoo 1.0 there is a one page tutorial on a website, while for
>> forthcoming Swazoo 2.0 (currently in beta) there is already a bit more
>> comments on most important classes.
>>
>> And here you can help me a bit: what was your questions when you
>> loaded that parcel in the morning? What was your intentions on the
>> start? What did you want to achieve? Just look at it or maybe serve
>> some static web pages, make another virtual web site?
>>
>> By answering you will direct me to prepare a bit more docs on a web
>> site...
>>
>>> If Swazoo Seaside is the preferred configuration would it not be more
>>> cool that VW Seaside loads with Swazoo from the start and adds some
>>> Tool extension to get configured ? If I can rent like any dedicated
>>> server, upload a VW image and start business that would be really
>>> Cool . (Oké James I agree I' have to get a Licence in the mean time).
>>
>> Don't forget that Swazoo supports virtual websites, which enables web
>> hosting very easily...
>>
>> Best regards
>> Janko
>>
>>> Notice that now having some real Seaside tests in VW is really
>>> boosting understanding how things work excellent !
>>>
>>> @+Maarten,
>>>
>>>
>>>      > Message du 19/07/07 11:16
>>>      > De : "Janko Mivšek"
>>>      > A : "Seaside - general discussion"
>>>      > Copie à :
>>>      > Objet : [Seaside] Swazoo web server (was updateRoot: Weirdness)
>>>      >
>>>      > Dear Seasiders,
>>>      >
>>>      > Let me remind you that there is a web server in Smalltalk named
>>>     Swazoo
>>>      > (http://www.swazoo.org) and that it was recently ported to Squeak
>>>     too.
>>>      > All you need is to connect it to a Seaside. This can be done
>>> easily
>>>      > because it is already done by Michel Bany on VW Seaside.
>>>      >
>>>      > That way you get a nicely packed web app server, with easy, out
>>>     of the
>>>      > box installation. And from experience so far I can say that
>>>     Swazoo is
>>>      > capable to serve small to medium sized public web sites and all
>>>      > intranets. So, only for really big websites you need to start
>>>     thinking
>>>      > to go Apache or lighthttp way ...
>>>      >
>>>      > Best regards
>>>      > Janko
>>>      > Maintainer of Swazoo
>>>      >

> Problem seems to be in current implementation of response sending, which
> generates a lot of small short living arrays to send segments of data to
> TCP socket. Not to mention that all file is read in memory and copied
> there several times!
>
> I'm currently working on streaming support and just finished input
> streaming (for file uploads). Idea is to stream files directly from/to
> TCP sockets, without intermediate buffering in memory. After that and
> after careful GC avoidance optimizations I'm confident that Swazoo will
> be capable to serve such large files in parallel to serve other requests.
>
> Input streaming will be released in few days as Swazoo 2.0 beta2, while
> I expect to finish output streaming soon after that too.
>
> Best regards
> Janko
>

> Hi Janko,
>
> I just reloaded SeasideForSwazoo from the VW repository
> (2.8a1.399,mbany) 9/7/2007.
>
> At the end it gives the following error:
>
> SeasideForSwazoo:Error (Subscripts out of bounds:)
> evaluating postLoadBlock
>

>
> After inspecting SwazooServer singleton, a site (aSeasideSite) and its
> uriPattern where aSiteIdentifier resists, I found it incorrectly set.
> This site identifier is somehow set by name of my local machine and
> external IP, but both should be 'localhost'. Or even better:
>
>     host:'locahost', ip:'127.0.0.1' port:8008
>
> If you change that site identifier manually and restart SwazooServer
> (SwazooServer stop; start), it will work correctly.
>
> Best regards
> Janko
>
> PS: Michel, would you correct that until next VW release?