[vwnc] Problem creating a tab-control with UIPainter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Hubert D Wagner
> Sent: 15 September 2008 17:15
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [vwnc] Problem creating a tab-control with UIPainter
>
> Hello List Members :
> I'm new to SmallTalk and not a professional programmer.
>
> I've used UI Painters in a number of applications : RealBasic, xCode,
> etc. However, so far, UIPainter has defeated me.
>
> I'm attempting to build a simple GUI using a single tabControl with
> two tabs. One tab will contain a Sub-canvas, a List and some Action
> buttons. The second a Sub-canvas, a scrollling Text Field and an
> Action button.
> a) I can't find a way to switch tabs in UIPainter so I can

> canvas
> along with its contents so I can move other widgets around on top
> without disturbing what's underneath?
>
> The GUIDevGuide says, "Paint subcanvases for each page (See the
> appearanceSpec, colorsSpec,
> and fontsSpec class methods in TabControlExample for examples.)"
> However there is no explicit account of how to achieve that with the
> UIPainter alone.
>
> Do I create the window, the tabControl and Install. Then, create the
> contents of each tab in code?
>
> I welcome all advice and comments.
>
> Regards : Hubert Wagner
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

> From: Steven Kelly <[hidden email]>
> Date:  September 15,  2008 14:03:03 GMT-03:00
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Hubert D Wagner <[hidden email]>
> Subject: RE: [vwnc] Problem creating a tab-control with UIPainter
>
> Hello Hubert,
>
> As you've noticed, you can't build the internals of a tab directly in
> the same painter where you place the tab. If you place widgets on  
> top of
> a tab control, they'll just end up floating around on top of the whole
> tab control, rather than being embedded inside a particular tab.
>
> Instead, in one UIPainter you build a main window, e.g. with just a  
> tab
> control. In another UIPainter, you build the contents of the first  
> tab,
> sized so the edges of the window will be matched to the inside edge of
> the tab. In a 3rd UIPainter, you build the contents of the second tab,
> and so on. You'll notice that each new UIPainter opens as just a new
> canvas, reusing the GUI Painter Tool and Palette; clicking in  
> different
> canvases will change which is shown in the GUI Painter Tool.
>
> You install each canvas to the same class, but with different names:
> e.g. windowSpec for the main one, then name the others after the
> contents of your tabs - for the TabControlExample they were
> appearanceSpec, colorsSpec, fontsSpec.
>
> You'll need to set things up so that when the user chooses a new tab,
> the contents get read from the right spec - see the manuals and
> TabControlExample. I'd suggest you build an example with just a few
> simple widgets in each tab, before moving on to having subcanvases
> inside tabs etc.
>
> Steve
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Hubert D Wagner
>> Sent: 15 September 2008 17:15
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [vwnc] Problem creating a tab-control with UIPainter
>>
>> Hello List Members :
>> I'm new to SmallTalk and not a professional programmer.
>>
>> I've used UI Painters in a number of applications : RealBasic, xCode,
>> etc. However, so far, UIPainter has defeated me.
>>
>> I'm attempting to build a simple GUI using a single tabControl with
>> two tabs. One tab will contain a Sub-canvas, a List and some Action
>> buttons. The second a Sub-canvas, a scrollling Text Field and an
>> Action button.
>> a) I can't find a way to switch tabs in UIPainter so I can
> add
>> a sub-
>> canvas and widgets to the second tab.
>> b) Is there any way to lock down the tabControl and one
> sub-
>> canvas
>> along with its contents so I can move other widgets around on top
>> without disturbing what's underneath?
>>
>> The GUIDevGuide says, "Paint subcanvases for each page (See the
>> appearanceSpec, colorsSpec,
>> and fontsSpec class methods in TabControlExample for examples.)"
>> However there is no explicit account of how to achieve that with the
>> UIPainter alone.
>>
>> Do I create the window, the tabControl and Install. Then, create the
>> contents of each tab in code?
>>
>> I welcome all advice and comments.
>>
>> Regards : Hubert Wagner
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

> Compared to Apple's "Interface Builder", the UIPainter seems
> primitive to say the least. Even RealBasic is easier to use. Why is
> VW so different? Is this a case of a novice missing the point or is
> this a valid criticism. If the latter, why does this situation exist.
> And does the community believe Cincom is likely to do something about
> it?
>
> I wonder is anyone working on a way to have VW make use of a GUI
> created in, for example, Interface Builder?
>
> Regards : Hubert Wagner
>
> > From: Steven Kelly
> >
> > Hello Hubert,
> >
> > As you've noticed, you can't build the internals of a tab directly

> > the same painter where you place the tab. If you place widgets on
> > top of
> > a tab control, they'll just end up floating around on top of the
> whole
> > tab control, rather than being embedded inside a particular tab.
> >
> > Instead, in one UIPainter you build a main window, e.g. with just a
> > tab
> > control. In another UIPainter, you build the contents of the first
> > tab,
> > sized so the edges of the window will be matched to the inside edge
> of
> > the tab. In a 3rd UIPainter, you build the contents of the second

> > and so on. You'll notice that each new UIPainter opens as just a new
> > canvas, reusing the GUI Painter Tool and Palette; clicking in
> > different
> > canvases will change which is shown in the GUI Painter Tool.
> >
> > You install each canvas to the same class, but with different names:
> > e.g. windowSpec for the main one, then name the others after the
> > contents of your tabs - for the TabControlExample they were
> > appearanceSpec, colorsSpec, fontsSpec.
> >
> > You'll need to set things up so that when the user chooses a new

> > the contents get read from the right spec - see the manuals and
> > TabControlExample. I'd suggest you build an example with just a few
> > simple widgets in each tab, before moving on to having subcanvases
> > inside tabs etc.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> >> Behalf Of Hubert D Wagner
> >> Sent: 15 September 2008 17:15
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: [vwnc] Problem creating a tab-control with UIPainter
> >>
> >> Hello List Members :
> >> I'm new to SmallTalk and not a professional programmer.
> >>
> >> I've used UI Painters in a number of applications : RealBasic,

> >> etc. However, so far, UIPainter has defeated me.
> >>
> >> I'm attempting to build a simple GUI using a single tabControl with
> >> two tabs. One tab will contain a Sub-canvas, a List and some Action
> >> buttons. The second a Sub-canvas, a scrollling Text Field and an
> >> Action button.
> >> a) I can't find a way to switch tabs in UIPainter so I can
> > add
> >> a sub-
> >> canvas and widgets to the second tab.
> >> b) Is there any way to lock down the tabControl and one
> > sub-
> >> canvas
> >> along with its contents so I can move other widgets around on top
> >> without disturbing what's underneath?
> >>
> >> The GUIDevGuide says, "Paint subcanvases for each page (See the
> >> appearanceSpec, colorsSpec,
> >> and fontsSpec class methods in TabControlExample for examples.)"
> >> However there is no explicit account of how to achieve that with

> >> contents of each tab in code?
> >>
> >> I welcome all advice and comments.
> >>
> >> Regards : Hubert Wagner
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> vwnc mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

> The UI Painter, and UI support in general, is something of a painful
> subject in VW. Here's my view of the history. I guess VisualWorks 1.0
> was well ahead of the curve when it offered a platform-independent GUI
> with a graphical builder around 1992. In the graphical builder, very
> little has changed since then. The UI support overall has slowly slipped
> down the field, with occasional jumps back up to the high side of
> "perfectly acceptable", e.g. when supporting a new major Windows look or
> a new platform like Mac OS X.
>
> The underlying UI framework, known both affectionately and pejoratively
> as Wrapper, became increasingly crufty with age and as it tried to
> stretch to graphical looks and control behavior that it hadn't been
> designed for. Cincom made the decision in 2001 to start a major project,
> Pollock (later renamed as Widgetry), to create a new UI framework and
> tools. It was scheduled for full production release in early 2004,
> including a new UI painter and tools for automatically upgrading
> existing apps. In September 2007, the project was discontinued:
> http://www.parcplace.net/list/vw-dev/0709/msg00062.html
>
> no new UI painter was ever built:
> http://www.parcplace.net/list/vwnc-archive/0709/msg00041.html
> :-) ...and if you think I sounded annoyed, you should read the messages
> from the few trusting souls who had implemented their new apps based on
> pre-releases of Widgetry!
>
> Paradoxically, I think Cincom made the right decision in both 2001 and
> 2007. I honestly don't know what the right decision for 2008 might be,
> but I like the direction in the roadmap:
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/cincom/blogView?content=roadmap
>
> With apologies to those for whom any discussion on this just reopens old
> wounds,
> Steve
>
> Hubert D Wagner wrote:
>> Compared to Apple's "Interface Builder", the UIPainter seems
>> primitive to say the least. Even RealBasic is easier to use. Why is
>> VW so different? Is this a case of a novice missing the point or is
>> this a valid criticism. If the latter, why does this situation exist.
>> And does the community believe Cincom is likely to do something about
>> it?
>>
>> I wonder is anyone working on a way to have VW make use of a GUI
>> created in, for example, Interface Builder?
>>
>> Regards : Hubert Wagner
>>
>> > From: Steven Kelly
>> >
>> > Hello Hubert,
>> >
>> > As you've noticed, you can't build the internals of a tab directly
> in
>> > the same painter where you place the tab. If you place widgets on
>> > top of
>> > a tab control, they'll just end up floating around on top of the
>> whole
>> > tab control, rather than being embedded inside a particular tab.
>> >
>> > Instead, in one UIPainter you build a main window, e.g. with just a
>> > tab
>> > control. In another UIPainter, you build the contents of the first
>> > tab,
>> > sized so the edges of the window will be matched to the inside edge
>> of
>> > the tab. In a 3rd UIPainter, you build the contents of the second
> tab,
>> > and so on. You'll notice that each new UIPainter opens as just a new
>> > canvas, reusing the GUI Painter Tool and Palette; clicking in
>> > different
>> > canvases will change which is shown in the GUI Painter Tool.
>> >
>> > You install each canvas to the same class, but with different names:
>> > e.g. windowSpec for the main one, then name the others after the
>> > contents of your tabs - for the TabControlExample they were
>> > appearanceSpec, colorsSpec, fontsSpec.
>> >
>> > You'll need to set things up so that when the user chooses a new
> tab,
>> > the contents get read from the right spec - see the manuals and
>> > TabControlExample. I'd suggest you build an example with just a few
>> > simple widgets in each tab, before moving on to having subcanvases
>> > inside tabs etc.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> >> Behalf Of Hubert D Wagner
>> >> Sent: 15 September 2008 17:15
>> >> To: [hidden email]
>> >> Subject: [vwnc] Problem creating a tab-control with UIPainter
>> >>
>> >> Hello List Members :
>> >> I'm new to SmallTalk and not a professional programmer.
>> >>
>> >> I've used UI Painters in a number of applications : RealBasic,
> xCode,
>> >> etc. However, so far, UIPainter has defeated me.
>> >>
>> >> I'm attempting to build a simple GUI using a single tabControl with
>> >> two tabs. One tab will contain a Sub-canvas, a List and some Action
>> >> buttons. The second a Sub-canvas, a scrollling Text Field and an
>> >> Action button.
>> >> a) I can't find a way to switch tabs in UIPainter so I can
>> > add
>> >> a sub-
>> >> canvas and widgets to the second tab.
>> >> b) Is there any way to lock down the tabControl and one
>> > sub-
>> >> canvas
>> >> along with its contents so I can move other widgets around on top
>> >> without disturbing what's underneath?
>> >>
>> >> The GUIDevGuide says, "Paint subcanvases for each page (See the
>> >> appearanceSpec, colorsSpec,
>> >> and fontsSpec class methods in TabControlExample for examples.)"
>> >> However there is no explicit account of how to achieve that with
> the
>> >> UIPainter alone.
>> >>
>> >> Do I create the window, the tabControl and Install. Then, create
> the
>> >> contents of each tab in code?
>> >>
>> >> I welcome all advice and comments.
>> >>
>> >> Regards : Hubert Wagner
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> vwnc mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>