[vwnc] Torrents?
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[vwnc] Torrents?
 
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I just did a quick social experiment by seeding a torrent of CST08NC iso for 3 hours from the pirate bay and so far 6 copies have been downloaded. I have no idea who the clients were, I wasn't tracking IPs, but I find it interesting nonetheless. Any chance we could convince Cincom to seed the ISO in addition to providing FTP access to improve download times for new users? I bet it would also work well for weekly builds, at the moment the average speed here from Cincom is just around 80K, whereas my seed alone is going out at 700K to 3 more peers. The easiest way to do that would be to throw builds up on S3 as it provides torrent tracker at no additional cost, just storage and bandwidth. Just a thought. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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I tried some while ago seeding a build as a torrent on S3
and getting people on the IRC at the time to download it simultaneously,
about half a dozen. It seemed to make no difference whatsoever.
At 08:43 PM 5/4/2008, Boris Popov wrote: Content-Class: urn:content-classes:messageI just did a quick social experiment by seeding a torrent of CST08NC iso for 3 hours from the pirate bay and so far 6 copies have been downloaded. I have no idea who the clients were, I wasn't tracking IPs, but I find it interesting nonetheless. Any chance we could convince Cincom to seed the ISO in addition to providing FTP access to improve download times for new users? I bet it would also work well for weekly builds, at the moment the average speed here from Cincom is just around 80K, whereas my seed alone is going out at 700K to 3 more peers. The easiest way to do that would be to throw builds up on S3 as it provides torrent tracker at no additional cost, just storage and bandwidth. Just a thought. Cheers! -Boris (via BlackBerry) _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
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Re: [vwnc] Torrents?
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
Alan, From: Alan Knight To: Boris Popov; [hidden email] Sent: Mon May 05 06:12:41 2008 Subject: Re: [vwnc] Torrents? I tried some while ago seeding a build as a torrent on S3 and getting people on the IRC at the time to download it simultaneously, about half a dozen. It seemed to make no difference whatsoever. At 08:43 PM 5/4/2008, Boris Popov wrote: Content-Class: urn:content-classes:messageI just did a quick social experiment by seeding a torrent of CST08NC iso for 3 hours from the pirate bay and so far 6 copies have been downloaded. I have no idea who the clients were, I wasn't tracking IPs, but I find it interesting nonetheless. Any chance we could convince Cincom to seed the ISO in addition to providing FTP access to improve download times for new users? I bet it would also work well for weekly builds, at the moment the average speed here from Cincom is just around 80K, whereas my seed alone is going out at 700K to 3 more peers. The easiest way to do that would be to throw builds up on S3 as it provides torrent tracker at no additional cost, just storage and bandwidth. Just a thought. Cheers! -Boris (via BlackBerry) _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
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I'm also not convinced that the limited life span of a build (generally a week) is long enough to let us reap the
benefits. Even more so since the target audience is rather small as well. The public release though could be a different story. Boris Popov wrote: > Alan, > > Indeed, with a single seed out there the download would effectively > still be mostly from a single source. The real difference comes into > play when people continue seeding after they are done leaching and P2P > kicks in. The weekly builds are released on a regular basis and chances > are most people download them within a couple of days. If few of us left > the torrents running, I bet others would see a difference then. But then > again, maybe it doesn't make any practical difference because people > download these in the background and don't care how long it takes. That > was just a thought as I was watching minutes go by at 80K from the ftp > when it could have been much higher. > > Cheers! > > -Boris (via BlackBerry) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From*: Alan Knight > *To*: Boris Popov; [hidden email] > *Sent*: Mon May 05 06:12:41 2008 > *Subject*: Re: [vwnc] Torrents? > > I tried some while ago seeding a build as a torrent on S3 and getting > people on the IRC at the time to download it simultaneously, about half > a dozen. It seemed to make no difference whatsoever. > > At 08:43 PM 5/4/2008, Boris Popov wrote: >> Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8AE49.10A5D201" >> >> I just did a quick social experiment by seeding a torrent of CST08NC >> iso for 3 hours from the pirate bay and so far 6 copies have been >> downloaded. I have no idea who the clients were, I wasn't tracking >> IPs, but I find it interesting nonetheless. Any chance we could >> convince Cincom to seed the ISO in addition to providing FTP access to >> improve download times for new users? I bet it would also work well >> for weekly builds, at the moment the average speed here from Cincom is >> just around 80K, whereas my seed alone is going out at 700K to 3 more >> peers. The easiest way to do that would be to throw builds up on S3 as >> it provides torrent tracker at no additional cost, just storage and >> bandwidth. Just a thought. >> >> Cheers! >> >> -Boris (via BlackBerry) >> _______________________________________________ >> vwnc mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc > > -- > Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk > [hidden email] > [hidden email] > http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > vwnc mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Re: [vwnc] Torrents?
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
I wonder though if seeding from a much faster CDN combined with P2P would result in better times all around? My S3 downloads typically clock in at 500K on the low end, but its certainly not enough of a sample to say for sure. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
BitTorrent may not make a difference with only a small number of
users, but I bet rsync would make a huge difference. -- Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills http://www.openskills.org/ _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Re: [vwnc] Torrents?
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rsync of what to where?
-Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Badger [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:31 PM > To: Boris Popov > Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [vwnc] Torrents? > > BitTorrent may not make a difference with only a small number of > users, but I bet rsync would make a huge difference. > > -- > Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills > http://www.openskills.org/ _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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In reply to this post by kobetic
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Martin Kobetic <[hidden email]> wrote:
One of my sad addictions is for formula 1 motor racing, especially when presented by British broadcasters (yes I know, nationalistic of me, but I can't stand the frequency of adverts on Speed, and next year the beeb is getting formula 1 back from ITV so No Adverts RSN!!). I don't have cable. So the only way I can get my British F1 fix is via the most wonderful http://www.racing-underground.com/ which is a motorsport torrent site. The average 2 1/2 to 3 hour broadcast (1 hour preshow, 1 1/2 hour race, wind down) is round about 2Gb, depending on encoding. A typical race happens in the middle of the night, PST. So I get up on a Sunday morning, download the torrent and set it going. Initially I get ETAs of 1 to 2 days. But as the P2P effect kicks in the download rate accelerates and I typically get to watch the race late Sunday evening. i.e. I see 2Gb in around 15 hours, starting with 1 or 2 seeds and ending with about 350 seeds, download rates starting at ~10kb/sec and ending up at over 100kb/sec. So I think Boris is right to suspect using torrents to distribute the weekly build could work quite well.
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Re: [vwnc] Torrents?
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
... because pretty much anyone who is going to download it will likely do it within a week resulting in a lot of sharing. But its just a hunch, clearly the current system works, I was just hoping to make it a little faster for those of us anxious to get going with new builds, especially if those at cincom seed the build they have locally available to them. From: [hidden email] To: [hidden email] Sent: Mon May 05 20:15:35 2008 Subject: Re: [vwnc] Torrents? On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Martin Kobetic <[hidden email]> wrote:
One of my sad addictions is for formula 1 motor racing, especially when presented by British broadcasters (yes I know, nationalistic of me, but I can't stand the frequency of adverts on Speed, and next year the beeb is getting formula 1 back from ITV so No Adverts RSN!!). I don't have cable. So the only way I can get my British F1 fix is via the most wonderful http://www.racing-underground.com/ which is a motorsport torrent site. The average 2 1/2 to 3 hour broadcast (1 hour preshow, 1 1/2 hour race, wind down) is round about 2Gb, depending on encoding. A typical race happens in the middle of the night, PST. So I get up on a Sunday morning, download the torrent and set it going. Initially I get ETAs of 1 to 2 days. But as the P2P effect kicks in the download rate accelerates and I typically get to watch the race late Sunday evening. i.e. I see 2Gb in around 15 hours, starting with 1 or 2 seeds and ending with about 350 seeds, download rates starting at ~10kb/sec and ending up at over 100kb/sec. So I think Boris is right to suspect using torrents to distribute the weekly build could work quite well.
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
On 05/05/2008, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> rsync of what to where? Well, the same thing that would be torrented? The dev build (e.g. cake) does not change so much from release to release. If I were able to rsync from a Cincom server to my host the amount of data that would need to be moved would be much smaller than if I were to use scp, or FTP or a torrent. How would this work? Create an account on a machine hosting the cake files that only has read access to the cake tree and then have people send in SSH certificates so that they can use rsync without a password. Control would come from being able to add/remove certificates and the permissions given to the account. -- Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills http://www.openskills.org/ _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:39:09 +0100
"Bruce Badger" <[hidden email]> wrote: > How would this work? Create an account on a machine hosting the cake > files that only has read access to the cake tree and then have people > send in SSH certificates so that they can use rsync without a > password. Control would come from being able to add/remove > certificates and the permissions given to the account. +1 for this idea. s. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Badger
>> rsync of what to where?
> > Well, the same thing that would be torrented? > > The dev build (e.g. cake) does not change so much from release to > release. If I were able to rsync from a Cincom server to my host the > amount of data that would need to be moved would be much smaller than > if I were to use scp, or FTP or a torrent. Torrent allows downloading of individual files, so you could stagger the two approaches: have rsync tell which files are needed then use torrent p2p to get those particular files. R - _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Re: [vwnc] Torrents?
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I always get the ISO, which is where P2P might make the most difference.
Of course if others prefer to get individual files via rsync, there won't be many seeds out there to piggyback on. -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf > Of Reinout Heeck > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:35 AM > To: VW NC > Subject: Re: [vwnc] Torrents? > > >> rsync of what to where? > > > > Well, the same thing that would be torrented? > > > > The dev build (e.g. cake) does not change so much from release to > > release. If I were able to rsync from a Cincom server to my host > > amount of data that would need to be moved would be much smaller than > > if I were to use scp, or FTP or a torrent. > > Torrent allows downloading of individual files, so you could stagger > the two approaches: > have rsync tell which files are needed then use torrent p2p to get > those particular files. > > R > - > > _______________________________________________ > vwnc mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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On 06/05/2008, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I always get the ISO, which is where P2P might make the most difference. > Of course if others prefer to get individual files via rsync, there > won't be many seeds out there to piggyback on. The rsync approach is good for the entire tree. Better for the entire tree than for just the odd file, but it can do the odd file too. torrent vs. rsync is not be an either-or thing. I could imagine obtaining an initial .iso fiie via torrent and then unpacking it to form the entire cake (for example) tree, I could then keep the tree up to date with minimal network usage using rsync. Let's have both. But if it is a choice, rsync is the most flexible. IMO. -- Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills http://www.openskills.org/ _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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On 07/05/2008, at 7:22 AM, Bruce Badger wrote: > Let's have both. > > But if it is a choice, rsync is the most flexible. IMO. I think rsync makes the torrent considerably less valuable given closed nature of the dev-build community, because it will greatly reduce the number of seeders. +1 for rsync. OTOH, rsync is not useful for the NC, whereas a torrent is, as long as the NC downloads are popular enough. Conflating NC and dev-build access issues is misleading. Antony Blakey -------------------------- CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd Ph: 0438 840 787 Hi, I'd like to do $THING. I know that $SOLUTION_A and $SOLUTION_B will do it very easily and for a very reasonable price, but I don't want to use $SOLUTION_A or $SOLUTION_B because $VAGUE_REASON and $CONTRADICTORY_REASON. Instead, I'd like your under-informed ideas on how to achieve my $POORLY_CONCEIVED_AMBITIONS using Linux, duct tape, an iPod, and hours and hours of my precious time. -- Slashdot response to an enquiry _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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