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[vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

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Kyung-Don Kim

[vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

I'm using XP, VW7.7
In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.
Does visualworks have undo history?

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Alan Knight-3

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

There are two sorts of undo available. One is the text menu undo - it does not have multi-level support. The other is the undo of IDE operations, available via the left and right arrow buttons on the browser toolbar. So if you saved or deleted a method and changed your mind, that would undo it. But it won't help with text operations. The other undo-ish option available is in things like browse change log and method history, which will show you all the saved versions of a method.

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7
In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.
Does visualworks have undo history?
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Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk

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http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

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Kyung-Don Kim

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

Thanks.
I am confusing about visualworks does not have multi-level-text-undo support.
It's too inconvenient to me.
Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?
Yes, I'm newbie. I was going crazy due to undo in yesterday.

2010/1/22 Alan Knight <[hidden email]>

There are two sorts of undo available. One is the text menu undo - it does not have multi-level support. The other is the undo of IDE operations, available via the left and right arrow buttons on the browser toolbar. So if you saved or deleted a method and changed your mind, that would undo it. But it won't help with text operations. The other undo-ish option available is in things like browse change log and method history, which will show you all the saved versions of a method.

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7
In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.
Does visualworks have undo history?
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thomas.hawker

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

No, the text undo behavior is historical. It’s been basically the same [mostly bad by modern standards] implementation for over 25 years. I wrote an up-to-date undo capability for ParagraphEditor something like 20 years ago, and submitted to the VW vendor at the time, but it seems to have gotten lost. It wasn’t easy because any mistake tends to make your image unusable.

Cheers!

Tom Hawker
Senior Framework Developer
Home	+1 (408) 274-4128	The Environment: *We take it personally*
Office	+1 (408) 576-6591
Mobile	+1 (408) 835-3643

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kyung-Don Kim
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:54 AM
To: Alan Knight
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

2010/1/22 Alan Knight <[hidden email]>

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7
In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.
Does visualworks have undo history?

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Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk

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Alan Knight-3

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

The paradigm part of it is that Smalltalk tends to have short methods and they are edited individually, so the editor does not need to be as sophisticated as if you were doing complex or large file editing. And the regular part is that nobody got around to doing it, at least for this version of Smalltalk.

At 11:53 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

Thanks.
I am confusing about visualworks does not have multi-level-text-undo support.
It's too inconvenient to me.
Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?
Yes, I'm newbie. I was going crazy due to undo in yesterday.

2010/1/22 Alan Knight <[hidden email]>

There are two sorts of undo available. One is the text menu undo - it does not have multi-level support. The other is the undo of IDE operations, available via the left and right arrow buttons on the browser toolbar. So if you saved or deleted a method and changed your mind, that would undo it. But it won't help with text operations. The other undo-ish option available is in things like browse change log and method history, which will show you all the saved versions of a method.

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7

In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.

It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.

Does visualworks have undo history?

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[hidden email]

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http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

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http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

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Steven Kelly

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

Alan’s right: that’s why the Up and Down cursor keys don’t work either. The methods are so short that it’s perfectly easy just to press Left or Right enough times to get to the previous/next line. It would be trivial to implement, because Smalltalk is so productive, but nobody has ever wanted it. :-/

And no, I haven’t tested it in 7.7 yet: I too am too busy being productive to actually get round to it :-)

Steve

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Knight
Sent: 21 January 2010 19:09
To: Kyung-Don Kim
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7

In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.

It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.

Does visualworks have undo history?

_______________________________________________

vwnc mailing list

[hidden email]

http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk

[hidden email]

http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk

[hidden email]

http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

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Alan Knight-3

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

At 02:27 PM 2010-01-21, Steven Kelly wrote:

Alans right: thats why the Up and Down cursor keys dont work either. The methods are so short that its perfectly easy just to press Left or Right enough times to get to the previous/next line. It would be trivial to implement, because Smalltalk is so productive, but nobody has ever wanted it. :-/

On which platform? Up and down work fine for me on Windows, Mac, Linux, and Solaris.

Back to the real world: Andre Schnoor implemented multi-level undo for VW back in 7.4. With his permission I published it to the public repository as TextEditorUndo, and have extended and updated it a little. Current version seems good for 7.6, but VW reserves Ctrl+Y for User interrupt by default: set it to e.g. F11 with InputState interruptKeyValue: #F11.

And no, I havent tested it in 7.7 yet: I too am too busy being productive to actually get round to it :-)

Steve

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Knight
Sent: 21 January 2010 19:09
To: Kyung-Don Kim
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

The paradigm part of it is that Smalltalk tends to have short methods and they are edited individually, so the editor does not need to be as sophisticated as if you were doing complex or large file editing. And the regular part is that nobody got around to doing it, at least for this version of Smalltalk.

At 11:53 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

Thanks.
I am confusing about visualworks does not have multi-level-text-undo support.
It's too inconvenient to me.
Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?
Yes, I'm newbie. I was going crazy due to undo in yesterday.

2010/1/22 Alan Knight <[hidden email]>
There are two sorts of undo available. One is the text menu undo - it does not have multi-level support. The other is the undo of IDE operations, available via the left and right arrow buttons on the browser toolbar. So if you saved or deleted a method and changed your mind, that would undo it. But it won't help with text operations. The other undo-ish option available is in things like browse change log and method history, which will show you all the saved versions of a method.

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7
In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.
Does visualworks have undo history?
_______________________________________________
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--
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

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Travis Griggs-3

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

On Jan 21, 2010, at 1:52 AM, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

> I'm using XP, VW7.7
> In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
> It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo,
> redo.
> Does visualworks have undo history?

The VisualWorks text editor, unfortunately, does not have an undo stack.

--
Travis Griggs
Objologist
"It had better be a pretty good meeting, to be better than no meeting
at all" - Boyd K Packer

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Dave Stevenson-3

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Alan Knight-3

I suspect he meant that if you start from the end of a longer line and go up/down to a shorter line, then back again, the text cursor is not in the same place. Rather, its horizontal position is near the end of the shorter line.

Dave Stevenson
[hidden email]

From: Alan Knight <[hidden email]>
To: Steven Kelly <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 1:46:56 PM
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

At 02:27 PM 2010-01-21, Steven Kelly wrote:

Alan’s right: that’s why the Up and Down cursor keys don’t work either. The methods are so short that it’s perfectly easy just to press Left or Right enough times to get to the previous/next line. It would be trivial to implement, because Smalltalk is so productive, but nobody has ever wanted it. :-/

On which platform? Up and down work fine for me on Windows, Mac, Linux, and Solaris.

Back to the real world: Andre Schnoor implemented multi-level undo for VW back in 7.4. With his permission I published it to the public repository as TextEditorUndo, and have extended and updated it a little. Current version seems good for 7.6, but VW reserves Ctrl+Y for User interrupt by default: set it to e.g. F11 with InputState interruptKeyValue: #F11.

And no, I haven’t tested it in 7.7 yet: I too am too busy being productive to actually get round to it :-)

Steve

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Knight
Sent: 21 January 2010 19:09
To: Kyung-Don Kim
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

The paradigm part of it is that Smalltalk tends to have short methods and they are edited individually, so the editor does not need to be as sophisticated as if you were doing complex or large file editing. And the regular part is that nobody got around to doing it, at least for this version of Smalltalk.

At 11:53 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

Thanks.
I am confusing about visualworks does not have multi-level-text-undo support.
It's too inconvenient to me.
Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?
Yes, I'm newbie. I was going crazy due to undo in yesterday.

2010/1/22 Alan Knight <[hidden email]>
There are two sorts of undo available. One is the text menu undo - it does not have multi-level support. The other is the undo of IDE operations, available via the left and right arrow buttons on the browser toolbar. So if you saved or deleted a method and changed your mind, that would undo it. But it won't help with text operations. The other undo-ish option available is in things like browse change log and method history, which will show you all the saved versions of a method.

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7
In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.
Does visualworks have undo history?
_______________________________________________
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--
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

--
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[hidden email]
[hidden email]
http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
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Steven Kelly

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

I was actually being ironic, and didn’t know of any problems with Up and Down. My apologies for not adding enough appropriate emoticons.

Dave is of course right, though. Also, pressing End always doesn’t always go to the end of a line: if the line is wrapped and ends in a thin character, the cursor ends up at the start of the next line. To duplicate in 7.7 visual.im, write “Pompeii worm” right after “information.” in the Workspace.

Also, if you cursor left from the end of “worm”, it stays still at the start of the line for one press, before jumping to between the i’s of Pompeii.

Steve

From: Dave Stevenson [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 21 January 2010 22:10
To: Alan Knight; Steven Kelly; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

Dave Stevenson
[hidden email]

On which platform? Up and down work fine for me on Windows, Mac, Linux, and Solaris.

Back to the real world: Andre Schnoor implemented multi-level undo for VW back in 7.4. With his permission I published it to the public repository as TextEditorUndo, and have extended and updated it a little. Current version seems good for 7.6, but VW reserves Ctrl+Y for User interrupt by default: set it to e.g. F11 with InputState interruptKeyValue: #F11.

And no, I haven’t tested it in 7.7 yet: I too am too busy being productive to actually get round to it :-)

Steve

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Knight
Sent: 21 January 2010 19:09
To: Kyung-Don Kim
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

The paradigm part of it is that Smalltalk tends to have short methods and they are edited individually, so the editor does not need to be as sophisticated as if you were doing complex or large file editing. And the regular part is that nobody got around to doing it, at least for this version of Smalltalk.

At 11:53 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

Thanks.
I am confusing about visualworks does not have multi-level-text-undo support.
It's too inconvenient to me.
Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?
Yes, I'm newbie. I was going crazy due to undo in yesterday.

2010/1/22 Alan Knight <[hidden email]>
There are two sorts of undo available. One is the text menu undo - it does not have multi-level support. The other is the undo of IDE operations, available via the left and right arrow buttons on the browser toolbar. So if you saved or deleted a method and changed your mind, that would undo it. But it won't help with text operations. The other undo-ish option available is in things like browse change log and method history, which will show you all the saved versions of a method.

At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:

I'm using XP, VW7.7
In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo, redo.
Does visualworks have undo history?
_______________________________________________
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--
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[hidden email]
[hidden email]
http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk

--
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[hidden email]
http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
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Andre Schnoor

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

> Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?

Yes, it's called "Simplification Through Innovation"

Andre

(sorry, couldn't resist)
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Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

"Simplification Through Innovation", or "STI" in short.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

-Boris (via BlackBerry)

----- Original Message -----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
To: VWNC List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu Jan 21 13:20:25 2010
Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

> Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?

Yes, it's called "Simplification Through Innovation"

Andre

(sorry, couldn't resist)
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Karsten Kusche

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Travis Griggs-3

Am 21.01.10 21:02, schrieb Travis Griggs:
>
> The VisualWorks text editor, unfortunately, does not have an undo stack.
>

Are there any plans on improving that? That's a major pain in the rear
end. Undo is such a standard feature nowadays that it's really annoying
that it's not properly working in VisualWorks:
- type something
- hit ctrl-z to undo
- click somewhere else in the text
- hit ctrl-z to redo and see the text at your cursor position, not where
you typed it in first place.

Kind Regards
Karsten

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>
>
>

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Holger Kleinsorgen-4

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

Ah, the semi-annual text-editor discussion. Given that it looks like
every 2nd smalltalker has implemented it, it might be a good idea to
stop trying the "you-don't-need-it"-Jedi-mind-trick and actually
implement it in the base image. And the block indent goodie could be
integrated as well.

Another issue: The paragraph editor shouldn't destroy the source code by
pasting compiler error message into the code. It's not 1982 anymore.

"Smalltalk - make hard things easy and easy things hard"

Am 22.01.2010 09:59, schrieb Karsten:

>
> Am 21.01.10 21:02, schrieb Travis Griggs:
> >
> > The VisualWorks text editor, unfortunately, does not have an undo stack.
> >
>
> Are there any plans on improving that? That's a major pain in the rear
> end. Undo is such a standard feature nowadays that it's really annoying
> that it's not properly working in VisualWorks:
> - type something
> - hit ctrl-z to undo
> - click somewhere else in the text
> - hit ctrl-z to redo and see the text at your cursor position, not where
> you typed it in first place.
>
> Kind Regards
> Karsten

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Steven Kelly

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

Thanks Tomáš, do please publish your change to the public repository. You could update the package comment for 7.7 and add a note that it's in the public domain (as Andre said in his original version, see version comment from 0.1).

Steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tomáš Dvořák [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 22 January 2010 10:30
> To: Steven Kelly; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.
>
> So cool! Another step into 20th century :)
> I just tested it in 7.7 and it seems to work fine. I just had to add a
>
> self invalidate.
>
> message send into InputFieldView >> #editText:
> just after
> self changedPreferredBounds: nil.
> (made it look the same as in ComposedTextView >> #editText:) in order
> to
> have input field views redrawn after undo/redo.
>
> Otherwise, a great improvement. Thank you so much.
>
> Best regards..
> Tomas Dvorak
>
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:27:31 +0100, Steven Kelly <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Alan's right: that's why the Up and Down cursor keys don't work
> either.
> > The methods are so short that it's perfectly easy just to press Left
> or
> > Right enough times to get to the previous/next line. It would be
> trivial
> > to implement, because Smalltalk is so productive, but nobody has ever
> > wanted it. :-/
> >
> >
> > Back to the real world: Andre Schnoor implemented multi-level undo
> for
> > VW back in 7.4. With his permission I published it to the public
> > repository as TextEditorUndo, and have extended and updated it a
> little.
> > Current version seems good for 7.6, but VW reserves Ctrl+Y for User
> > interrupt by default: set it to e.g. F11 with InputState
> > interruptKeyValue: #F11.
> >
> >
> > And no, I haven't tested it in 7.7 yet: I too am too busy being
> > productive to actually get round to it :-)
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> > Behalf Of Alan Knight
> > Sent: 21 January 2010 19:09
> > To: Kyung-Don Kim
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.
> >
> >
> > The paradigm part of it is that Smalltalk tends to have short methods
> > and they are edited individually, so the editor does not need to be
> as
> > sophisticated as if you were doing complex or large file editing. And
> > the regular part is that nobody got around to doing it, at least for
> > this version of Smalltalk.
> >
> > At 11:53 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> > I am confusing about visualworks does not have multi-level-text-undo
> > support.
> > It's too inconvenient to me.
> > Is it something about smalltalk-ish "PARADIGM"?
> > Yes, I'm newbie. I was going crazy due to undo in yesterday.
> >
> > 2010/1/22 Alan Knight <[hidden email]>
> >
> > There are two sorts of undo available. One is the text menu undo - it
> > does not have multi-level support. The other is the undo of IDE
> > operations, available via the left and right arrow buttons on the
> > browser toolbar. So if you saved or deleted a method and changed your
> > mind, that would undo it. But it won't help with text operations. The
> > other undo-ish option available is in things like browse change log
> and
> > method history, which will show you all the saved versions of a
> method.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 04:52 AM 2010-01-21, Kyung-Don Kim wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm using XP, VW7.7
> >
> > In IDE, 'Undo' don't work properly.
> >
> > It don't go back to undo history that It's just switch between undo,
> > redo.
> >
> > Does visualworks have undo history?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > vwnc mailing list
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
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> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > [hidden email]
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> > http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk
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>

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Terry Raymond

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Holger Kleinsorgen-4

Actually, I use the unconventional undo for swapping text.
1. select text and cut.
2. select text to swap and then paste.
3. put cursor at previous position and then undo.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Holger Kleinsorgen
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 5:03 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.
>
> Ah, the semi-annual text-editor discussion. Given that it looks like
> every 2nd smalltalker has implemented it, it might be a good idea to
> stop trying the "you-don't-need-it"-Jedi-mind-trick and actually
> implement it in the base image. And the block indent goodie could be
> integrated as well.
>
> Another issue: The paragraph editor shouldn't destroy the source code by
> pasting compiler error message into the code. It's not 1982 anymore.

And what do you consider to be better?

> "Smalltalk - make hard things easy and easy things hard"
>
>
> Am 22.01.2010 09:59, schrieb Karsten:
> >
> > Am 21.01.10 21:02, schrieb Travis Griggs:
> > >
> > > The VisualWorks text editor, unfortunately, does not have an undo stack.
> > >
> >
> > Are there any plans on improving that? That's a major pain in the rear
> > end. Undo is such a standard feature nowadays that it's really annoying
> > that it's not properly working in VisualWorks:
> > - type something
> > - hit ctrl-z to undo
> > - click somewhere else in the text
> > - hit ctrl-z to redo and see the text at your cursor position, not where
> > you typed it in first place.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > Karsten
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Terry

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Terry Raymond
Crafted Smalltalk
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Holger Kleinsorgen-4

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

Am 22.01.2010 14:10, schrieb Terry Raymond:
> Actually, I use the unconventional undo for swapping text.
> 1. select text and cut.
> 2. select text to swap and then paste.
> 3. put cursor at previous position and then undo.

the primary purpose of "undo" is, well, to undo changes to the sources
;)I don't mind if it can be used for other operations, but I mind if it
doesn't do what every other sane text editor (or input field) on the
planet can do.

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Holger Kleinsorgen
>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 5:03 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.
>>
>> Ah, the semi-annual text-editor discussion. Given that it looks like
>> every 2nd smalltalker has implemented it, it might be a good idea to
>> stop trying the "you-don't-need-it"-Jedi-mind-trick and actually
>> implement it in the base image. And the block indent goodie could be
>> integrated as well.
>>
>> Another issue: The paragraph editor shouldn't destroy the source code by
>> pasting compiler error message into the code. It's not 1982 anymore.
>
>
> And what do you consider to be better?

a non-destructive approach where the faulty code is only highlighted and
the error message is not inserted there, but displayed elsewhere
(tooltip, separate list,...)

by the way, try the following:

1. create a method, e.g. #foobar
2. modify the method so that it contains a syntax error, but don't accept it
3. click on another method
4. when asked "Accept unsaved text changes", answer yes
5. click on the "modified" method (#foobar)
6. notice that the changes have not been accepted
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Ralph Johnson

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Holger Kleinsorgen
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Another issue: The paragraph editor shouldn't destroy the source code by
>>> pasting compiler error message into the code. It's not 1982 anymore.
>>
>>
>> And what do you consider to be better?
>
> a non-destructive approach where the faulty code is only highlighted and
> the error message is not inserted there, but displayed elsewhere
> (tooltip, separate list,...)

I would like to agree with Holger.

The way that Smalltalk handled and reported syntax errors was
innovative and clever back in 1980. It led to a very simple parser
(it only had to report the first syntax error, and not recover from
it) and to interactive tools. But the world has changed since then,
and we have a lot more experience with IDEs. Even the ones that are
not nearly as good as Smalltalk's often have some good ideas. And
some have collected years of incremental improvement into a pretty
good package. In particular, the way that Eclipse annotates code with
both errors and hints for improvement is very good.

Here is my suggestion. First, produce a frame for the text editor
that lets you hang icons on it. You can tell the frame "stick this
icon on line 24" and "remove this icon". Next, change the
compiler/editor interface so that a syntax error produces an icon for
that line. Hovering over the icon will show text for the error
message. Double-clicking on the icon will produce something, too,
even if just a text box with the same message.

There is a lot more that can be done. In particular, the parser
should be rewritten so it produces a set of errors instead of just the
first one, but this is a much bigger project. In the mean time,
people can use this code annocation framework for all sorts of things.

-Ralph Johnson
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Karsten Kusche

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

Am 22.01.10 16:12, schrieb Ralph Johnson:
> I would like to agree with Holger.
>

yeah, me too.

> The way that Smalltalk handled and reported syntax errors was
> innovative and clever back in 1980. It led to a very simple parser
> (it only had to report the first syntax error, and not recover from
> it) and to interactive tools. But the world has changed since then,
> and we have a lot more experience with IDEs. Even the ones that are
> not nearly as good as Smalltalk's often have some good ideas. And
> some have collected years of incremental improvement into a pretty
> good package. In particular, the way that Eclipse annotates code with
> both errors and hints for improvement is very good.
>

actually a great idea! I wouldn't go for a frame though. In Smalltalk
you don't have lines of code that fail, there's an expression that could
be wrong or that could be improved, so the expression should be annotated.
With ExtraEmphasis loaded, the breakpoints already have a big stop-sign
in front of them. Same could go for error messages or warnings. Warnings
could be Lint warnings. Those would actually be extremely useful,
especially for lazy people that always forget to run Lint manually.
With Computers becoming faster and faster, why not compile the method
and check it against lint rules in the same run?

Karsten

--
Karsten Kusche - Dipl. Inf. - [hidden email]
Georg Heeg eK - Köthen
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Dortmund A 12812

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Steven Kelly

Re: [vwnc] 'Undo' don't work properly.

In reply to this post by Kyung-Don Kim

Ralph Johnson wrote:
> Holger Kleinsorgen wrote:
>> Another issue: The paragraph editor shouldn't destroy the source code
by
>> pasting compiler error message into the code. It's not 1982 anymore.
>
> Here is my suggestion. First, produce a frame for the text editor
> that lets you hang icons on it. You can tell the frame "stick this
> icon on line 24" and "remove this icon". Next, change the
> compiler/editor interface so that a syntax error produces an icon for
> that line. Hovering over the icon will show text for the error
> message. Double-clicking on the icon will produce something, too,
> even if just a text box with the same message.

Good idea. It's actually easy enough to go one better, and get
per-statement errors and breakpoints. We do this with ExtraEmphases,
using an error icon in the same way as ExtraEmphases improves VW
breakpoints to show up as an icon at the breakpoint position. See the
attached picture for an example: it uses LeadingInsert in the text and
LeadingInsertSpace in the error list.

Steve

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