[vwnc] VisualWave and Seaside - Newbie Question.

Could someone say a couple of sentences or so on the relationship of VisualWave and Seaside? I can't find much reference to VisualWave on the Cincom site so has it been subsumed? They run a host for Seaside - correct?? Does anyone else hosts these server programs? Or is the idea one has to run your own server to use them? How sucessful is Seaside? Does it deliver to the end user as fast as experience other web server technologies? Basically, I would like to get a some overall perspective.

Regards
Bill Stewart

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William Stewart wrote:
> Could someone say a couple of sentences or so on the relationship of
> VisualWave and Seaside? I can't find much reference to VisualWave on the
> Cincom site so has it been subsumed? They run a host for Seaside -
> correct?? Does anyone else hosts these server programs? Or is the idea
> one has to run your own server to use them? How sucessful is Seaside?
> Does it deliver to the end user as fast as experience other web server
> technologies? Basically, I would like to get a some overall perspective.

Maybe I can contribute few words because VisualWave came out just at the
same time my Aida/Web was born in 1996, so I obviously followed it even
more carefully. VisualWave was designed to put your GUI apps as easy as
possible to the web, which was quite a common approach at that time. But
it was and still is too narrow for anything else.

As I understand now, VisualWave and Seaside on VW are not related in any
means and I didn't hear that VisualWave will be much developed in the
future.

About hosting web apps, I can say how we host Aida/Web
(http://www.aidaweb.si) apps. We have a collocated server with one VW
image where currently about 40 websites are hosted. Those are mostly
intranet apps for our customers, but there are also public websites. All
those are Aida/Web websites, using Swazoo Smalltalk web server. No
Apache therefore. All Smalltalk.

Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Am 06.07.08 12:05 schrieb "William Stewart" unter <[hidden email]>:
> Could someone say a couple of sentences or so on the relationship of
> VisualWave and Seaside?

VisualWave is a proprietary tool for developing web based applications. It
is delivered as part of the VisualWorks distribution. Being somewhat dated,
there is no ongoing development, but it is still supported.

Seaside was developed independently for Squeak, and it is free and open
source. It has been ported to VisualWorks, and Cincom is now actively
working on it. There is a lot of active work going on. More info is
available at http://www.seaside.st/.

The two frameworks are not related in any way and have different features.

> I can't find much reference to VisualWave on the
> Cincom site so has it been subsumed?
For documentation, see the "Web GUI Developer's Guide"
(doc/WebAppDevGuide.pdf) which comes with the VisualWorks distribution.

> They run a host for Seaside - correct??
Depends on whom you mean by "they". AFAIK, Cincom does not host Seaside
applications.

> Does anyone else hosts these server programs?
netstyle.ch and ESUG run a Seaside host at http://www.seasidehosting.st/.

> Or is the idea one has to run your own server to use them?
You can run your own server, or use seasidehosting.st if your application is
small enough, or use services like Amazon EC2.

> How sucessful is Seaside?
Very. What exactly would you consider a success? ;-)

> Does it deliver to the
> end user as fast as experience other web server technologies?
There is no general answer to this kind of question. It depends on what your
code does. If you program an inefficient application, it will be annoying
regardless of technology. A colleague of mine complains about a Java based
web application running on high-end application servers and hardware, which
basically breaks down when more than a few users log in, and which has to be
rebooted once a day. With the same equipment, one can also develop really
fast and efficient applications. Don't fall into the trap of comparing how
fast Apache serves static content vs. how fast Seaside does it. As always,
application code, number of sessions vs. number of processors, usage of load
balancers, and many other factors influence the end user experience.

> Basically, I would like to get a some overall perspective.
I would say, forget about VisualWave, try Seaside and AIDA/Web.

HTH,
Joachim Geidel


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