what's the best Mac VM?

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what's the best Mac VM?

Bob Arning-2

Since I upgraded to MacOS 10.12, I've had a devil of a time finding a VM that will reliably run various images I have lying around. Can someone point me to a good one?



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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Tobias Pape
Hi Bob

> On 29.07.2017, at 19:03, Bob Arning <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Since I upgraded to MacOS 10.12, I've had a devil of a time finding a VM that will reliably run various images I have lying around. Can someone point me to a good one?
>

To triage a bit, can you outline the "various images"? What are they like?

Best regards
        -Tobias



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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Bob Arning-2

Well, I have a VM that identifies itself thusly:

Virtual Machine
---------------
/private/var/folders/j8/srqlyptj11v01rspqj9h_0g00000gq/T/AppTranslocation/199715EF-054C-45AC-9BD4-BBC69FB10DA9/d/Squeak may2017.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Croquet Closure Cog[Spur] VM [CoInterpreterPrimitives VMMaker.oscog-eem.2213]
Mac OS X built on May 16 2017 23:29:55 UTC Compiler: 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 6.1.0 (clang-602.0.53)
platform sources revision VM: 201705162217 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Date: Tue May 16 15:17:10 2017 -0700 $ Plugins: 201705162217 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $
CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2213 uuid: 91a750c2-5478-49d7-9c19-26ddc976ddb1 May 16 2017
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2213 uuid: 91a750c2-5478-49d7-9c19-26ddc976ddb1 May 16 2017

If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I have tried looking at the console log to see if something shows there and the first thing that appears after dropping the image is usually a line like:

default    09:37:32.421780 -0400    Squeak    Connection to sharingd became invalid

This appears for both 5.x and 4.x images, but for a 5.x image there are a ton of messages to follow and for a 4.x image, that's about all that appears. So, I'm not clear how to proceed.


On 8/29/17 7:55 AM, Tobias Pape wrote:
Hi Bob

On 29.07.2017, at 19:03, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

Since I upgraded to MacOS 10.12, I've had a devil of a time finding a VM that will reliably run various images I have lying around. Can someone point me to a good one?

To triage a bit, can you outline the "various images"? What are they like?

Best regards
	-Tobias






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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

timrowledge

> On 29-08-2017, at 6:51 AM, Bob Arning <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ---------------
>  Cog[Spur] VM
>
> If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I

Spur would seem to be the key here. For a 4.x image you want the v3 vm rather than Spur.

We don’t seem to be doing a terribly good job of informing users when something like this happens; a clear notifier or log entry that the image format didn’t match and a note about what that means (a URL to swiki?) would be nice. We have some image version checking in checkImageVersionFromstartingAt() that at least looks like it ought to be working out if the image format is correct and exiting cleanly if not, but I  don’t know what happens to plain ‘print()’ statements on macOS. Hmm, ok, try loading a 4.3 image in a spur vm - the console does actually show an exit from there with error 1, so it does work but boy is it failing to be helpful. How many people even know there is a console and to filter for ‘squeak’?

Is it practical to add a UI aspect to ioExitWithErrorCode()?


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful random insult:- Hid behind the door when they passed out brains.

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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Bob Arning-2

I wasn't seeing that error 1 before - poked around in different console options and there it was. Although, as you say, what does 1 mean? Saying something more friendly would be nice, but my original question was where to find the best vm and I still don't know the answer to that. For any OS version/image version, what's a nice stable VM? If that page exists, I just can't find it.


On 8/29/17 1:36 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:

      
On 29-08-2017, at 6:51 AM, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:
---------------
 Cog[Spur] VM 

If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I
Spur would seem to be the key here. For a 4.x image you want the v3 vm rather than Spur. 

We don’t seem to be doing a terribly good job of informing users when something like this happens; a clear notifier or log entry that the image format didn’t match and a note about what that means (a URL to swiki?) would be nice. We have some image version checking in checkImageVersionFromstartingAt() that at least looks like it ought to be working out if the image format is correct and exiting cleanly if not, but I  don’t know what happens to plain ‘print()’ statements on macOS. Hmm, ok, try loading a 4.3 image in a spur vm - the console does actually show an exit from there with error 1, so it does work but boy is it failing to be helpful. How many people even know there is a console and to filter for ‘squeak’?

Is it practical to add a UI aspect to ioExitWithErrorCode()?


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful random insult:- Hid behind the door when they passed out brains.




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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Bob Arning-2
In reply to this post by timrowledge

Some more exploring

- downloaded cog_macos32x86_squeak.cog.v3_201608171728.tar.gz, started it and pointed it to a 4.2 image. Squeak stayed up, but the desktop never appeared.

- downloaded Squeak-4.6-All-in-One.zip and it runs, but warns it can't write the changes file (see attachment). Not sure how to deal with this or how to make this into a VM I can use for other images.


On 8/29/17 1:36 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:

      
On 29-08-2017, at 6:51 AM, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:
---------------
 Cog[Spur] VM 

If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I
Spur would seem to be the key here. For a 4.x image you want the v3 vm rather than Spur. 

We don’t seem to be doing a terribly good job of informing users when something like this happens; a clear notifier or log entry that the image format didn’t match and a note about what that means (a URL to swiki?) would be nice. We have some image version checking in checkImageVersionFromstartingAt() that at least looks like it ought to be working out if the image format is correct and exiting cleanly if not, but I  don’t know what happens to plain ‘print()’ statements on macOS. Hmm, ok, try loading a 4.3 image in a spur vm - the console does actually show an exit from there with error 1, so it does work but boy is it failing to be helpful. How many people even know there is a console and to filter for ‘squeak’?

Is it practical to add a UI aspect to ioExitWithErrorCode()?


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful random insult:- Hid behind the door when they passed out brains.





Screen Shot 2017-08-29 at 2.13.40 PM.png (69K) Download Attachment
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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Tobias Pape

> On 29.08.2017, at 20:19, Bob Arning <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Some more exploring
>
> - downloaded cog_macos32x86_squeak.cog.v3_201608171728.tar.gz, started it and pointed it to a 4.2 image. Squeak stayed up, but the desktop never appeared.
>
> - downloaded Squeak-4.6-All-in-One.zip and it runs, but warns it can't write the changes file (see attachment). Not sure how to deal with this or how to make this into a VM I can use for other images.

When you download and unpack an all-in-one or a VM and want to run it
 _first, before you run it_ move the .app somewhere else (Desktop, /Applications), does not matter.
But move it.

Moving _after_ opening does not help, move it first.

Apple in 10.12 tried to make some things more secure, and that is why you see the problems with not being able to write to the changes file.

Best regards
        -Tobias

>
> On 8/29/17 1:36 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:
>>> On 29-08-2017, at 6:51 AM, Bob Arning <[hidden email]>
>>>  wrote:
>>> ---------------
>>>  Cog[Spur] VM
>>>
>>> If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I
>>>
>> Spur would seem to be the key here. For a 4.x image you want the v3 vm rather than Spur.
>>
>> We don’t seem to be doing a terribly good job of informing users when something like this happens; a clear notifier or log entry that the image format didn’t match and a note about what that means (a URL to swiki?) would be nice. We have some image version checking in checkImageVersionFromstartingAt() that at least looks like it ought to be working out if the image format is correct and exiting cleanly if not, but I  don’t know what happens to plain ‘print()’ statements on macOS. Hmm, ok, try loading a 4.3 image in a spur vm - the console does actually show an exit from there with error 1, so it does work but boy is it failing to be helpful. How many people even know there is a console and to filter for ‘squeak’?
>>
>> Is it practical to add a UI aspect to ioExitWithErrorCode()?
>>
>>
>> tim
>> --
>> tim Rowledge;
>> [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
>>
>> Useful random insult:- Hid behind the door when they passed out brains.
>>
>>
>
> <Screen Shot 2017-08-29 at 2.13.40 PM.png>


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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Tobias Pape

> On 29.08.2017, at 20:30, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On 29.08.2017, at 20:19, Bob Arning <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Some more exploring
>>
>> - downloaded cog_macos32x86_squeak.cog.v3_201608171728.tar.gz, started it and pointed it to a 4.2 image. Squeak stayed up, but the desktop never appeared.
>>
>> - downloaded Squeak-4.6-All-in-One.zip and it runs, but warns it can't write the changes file (see attachment). Not sure how to deal with this or how to make this into a VM I can use for other images.
>
> When you download and unpack an all-in-one or a VM and want to run it
> _first, before you run it_ move the .app somewhere else (Desktop, /Applications), does not matter.
> But move it.
>
> Moving _after_ opening does not help, move it first.
>
> Apple in 10.12 tried to make some things more secure, and that is why you see the problems with not being able to write to the changes file.
>


For the record:

http://krypted.com/mac-security/app-translocation-services-os-x-10-12/
http://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html

Best regards
        -Tobias

> Best regards
> -Tobias
>
>>
>> On 8/29/17 1:36 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:
>>>> On 29-08-2017, at 6:51 AM, Bob Arning <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> ---------------
>>>> Cog[Spur] VM
>>>>
>>>> If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I
>>>>
>>> Spur would seem to be the key here. For a 4.x image you want the v3 vm rather than Spur.
>>>
>>> We don’t seem to be doing a terribly good job of informing users when something like this happens; a clear notifier or log entry that the image format didn’t match and a note about what that means (a URL to swiki?) would be nice. We have some image version checking in checkImageVersionFromstartingAt() that at least looks like it ought to be working out if the image format is correct and exiting cleanly if not, but I  don’t know what happens to plain ‘print()’ statements on macOS. Hmm, ok, try loading a 4.3 image in a spur vm - the console does actually show an exit from there with error 1, so it does work but boy is it failing to be helpful. How many people even know there is a console and to filter for ‘squeak’?
>>>
>>> Is it practical to add a UI aspect to ioExitWithErrorCode()?
>>>
>>>
>>> tim
>>> --
>>> tim Rowledge;
>>> [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
>>>
>>> Useful random insult:- Hid behind the door when they passed out brains.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <Screen Shot 2017-08-29 at 2.13.40 PM.png>
>


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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Bob Arning-2
In reply to this post by Tobias Pape

Thanks, that helped. Now I can open old 4.x images by dropping them on this all-in-one - in fact, several much older VMs also seem to work, so, even if I don't understand what's happening, I can open old files. Just not all with the same VM.


On 8/29/17 2:30 PM, Tobias Pape wrote:

      
On 29.08.2017, at 20:19, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

Some more exploring

- downloaded cog_macos32x86_squeak.cog.v3_201608171728.tar.gz, started it and pointed it to a 4.2 image. Squeak stayed up, but the desktop never appeared.

- downloaded Squeak-4.6-All-in-One.zip and it runs, but warns it can't write the changes file (see attachment). Not sure how to deal with this or how to make this into a VM I can use for other images.
When you download and unpack an all-in-one or a VM and want to run it
 _first, before you run it_ move the .app somewhere else (Desktop, /Applications), does not matter.
But move it.

Moving _after_ opening does not help, move it first. 

Apple in 10.12 tried to make some things more secure, and that is why you see the problems with not being able to write to the changes file.

Best regards
	-Tobias

On 8/29/17 1:36 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:
On 29-08-2017, at 6:51 AM, Bob Arning [hidden email]
 wrote:
---------------
 Cog[Spur] VM 

If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I

Spur would seem to be the key here. For a 4.x image you want the v3 vm rather than Spur. 

We don’t seem to be doing a terribly good job of informing users when something like this happens; a clear notifier or log entry that the image format didn’t match and a note about what that means (a URL to swiki?) would be nice. We have some image version checking in checkImageVersionFromstartingAt() that at least looks like it ought to be working out if the image format is correct and exiting cleanly if not, but I  don’t know what happens to plain ‘print()’ statements on macOS. Hmm, ok, try loading a 4.3 image in a spur vm - the console does actually show an exit from there with error 1, so it does work but boy is it failing to be helpful. How many people even know there is a console and to filter for ‘squeak’?

Is it practical to add a UI aspect to ioExitWithErrorCode()?


tim
--
tim Rowledge; 
[hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim

Useful random insult:- Hid behind the door when they passed out brains.


<Screen Shot 2017-08-29 at 2.13.40 PM.png>




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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Tobias Pape

> On 29.08.2017, at 20:47, Bob Arning <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks, that helped. Now I can open old 4.x images by dropping them on this all-in-one - in fact, several much older VMs also seem to work, so, even if I don't understand what's happening, I can open old files. Just not all with the same VM.

Yes, that is (currently) expected.

Since version 5.0, Squeak uses the spur image format, which needs a compatible vm.
Btw: squeak 4.6 and squeak 5.0 are the same except for the image format.

Best regards
        -Tobias

PS: the RSqueak/VM (https://github.com/HPI-SWA-Lab/RSqueak) can open all Squeak-images since squeak 2.3, including the new ones, given the image has one package installes



>
> On 8/29/17 2:30 PM, Tobias Pape wrote:
>>> On 29.08.2017, at 20:19, Bob Arning <[hidden email]>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Some more exploring
>>>
>>> - downloaded cog_macos32x86_squeak.cog.v3_201608171728.tar.gz, started it and pointed it to a 4.2 image. Squeak stayed up, but the desktop never appeared.
>>>
>>> - downloaded Squeak-4.6-All-in-One.zip and it runs, but warns it can't write the changes file (see attachment). Not sure how to deal with this or how to make this into a VM I can use for other images.
>>>
>> When you download and unpack an all-in-one or a VM and want to run it
>>  _first, before you run it_ move the .app somewhere else (Desktop, /Applications), does not matter.
>> But move it.
>>
>> Moving _after_ opening does not help, move it first.
>>
>> Apple in 10.12 tried to make some things more secure, and that is why you see the problems with not being able to write to the changes file.
>>
>> Best regards
>> -Tobias
>>
>>
>>> On 8/29/17 1:36 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On 29-08-2017, at 6:51 AM, Bob Arning <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> ---------------
>>>>>  Cog[Spur] VM
>>>>>
>>>>> If I drop a 5.1 image on this VM, it works (at least a few that I just tried). If I drop a 4.2 or 4.5 image on the same VM, nothing happens. I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Spur would seem to be the key here. For a 4.x image you want the v3 vm rather than Spur.
>>>>
>>>> We don’t seem to be doing a terribly good job of informing users when something like this happens; a clear notifier or log entry that the image format didn’t match and a note about what that means (a URL to swiki?) would be nice. We have some image version checking in checkImageVersionFromstartingAt() that at least looks like it ought to be working out if the image format is correct and exiting cleanly if not, but I  don’t know what happens to plain ‘print()’ statements on macOS. Hmm, ok, try loading a 4.3 image in a spur vm - the console does actually show an exit from there with error 1, so it does work but boy is it failing to be helpful. How many people even know there is a console and to filter for ‘squeak’?
>>>>
>>>> Is it practical to add a UI aspect to ioExitWithErrorCode()?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> tim
>>>> --
>>>> tim Rowledge;
>>>>
>>>> [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Useful random insult:- Hid behind the door when they passed out brains.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> <Screen Shot 2017-08-29 at 2.13.40 PM.png>
>>>
>>
>
>


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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Bob Arning-2

OK, I'll try that...

- using the .zip version:

“RSqueak” is damaged and can’t be opened. You should move it to the Trash.

-using the tar.gz version:
RSqueak cannot be opened because of a problem.

Check with the developer to make sure RSqueak works with this version of macOS. You may need to reinstall the application. Be sure to install any available updates for the application and macOS.

Click Report to see more detailed information and send a report to Apple.

and the report says:

Application Specific Information:
dyld: launch, loading dependent libraries

Dyld Error Message:
  Library not loaded: /usr/local/opt/openssl/lib/libssl.1.0.0.dylib
  Referenced from: /Volumes/VOLUME/*/RSqueak.app/Contents/MacOS/RSqueak
  Reason: image not found

On 8/29/17 2:53 PM, Tobias Pape wrote:
PS: the RSqueak/VM (https://github.com/HPI-SWA-Lab/RSqueak) can open all Squeak-images since squeak 2.3, including the new ones, given the image has one package installes



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Re: what's the best Mac VM?

Edgar J. De Cleene-3
In reply to this post by Bob Arning-2
Re: [squeak-dev] what's the best Mac VM? I have not only several Squeak images , also Cuis and Cuis forks.
Here a quick resume
Squeak from 1.x until 4.1 could be open by old stack machines like John McIntosh for Mac and old Unix stack VM which still instal in Ubuntu and Ubuntu forks this days.
4.6 is the release which change to Cog,
In fact I have 4.6 derivated from before the change and I could run this old images in G4 Power PC Macs and Pentium IV Ubuntu boxes
For 4.6 from http://ftp.squeak.org/4.6/ you see Squeak4.6-15102 but  this could be  updated from trunk and still be Cog.
From 5.1 until today the VM must be Spur.

Spur do not open older images.
Cog could open some 4.x , but you was forced to continue using Cog, .image can’t be opened again by stack
VM’s

My two cents.
I currently learning webassembly , so if people here like  learning I’m ready to exchange.
I have in the cooking phase of a Cuis derivate image which have KomHV for the back end and Amber , Morphic.js and sevearl Git .js useful libraries on the front .


Edgar
@morplenauta