[ANN] Guardians

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[ANN] Guardians

Stéphane Rollandin
Hello,

Thanks to all the good people that helped having a working Squeak3D
plugin for recent VM, I am pleased to announce the release of a game I
started in 2005 and then let kind of forgot, a remake of The Sentinel
from 1986 (I used to play this one a lot). It is a Wonderland
application, and it works in a 5.1 image. Nice:)

So here it is:
http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/guardians.htm

Still in beta, since I have experimented a fair share of VM crashes, but
very much playable. See the above page for instructions.


Stef

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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Ben Coman
I thought I'd give it a try.  I downloaded guardians.0.82.zip and
unzipped it to C:\Apps\Guardians.
Double-clicking on Squeak.exe gave me a message
and upon opening says "WARNING: This Squeak does not have real 3D support"
and "LoadLibrary(C:\Apps\guardians\Squeak3D.dll) (998: Invalid access
to memory locations).
There are no log files.

Platform...
C:> ver
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17134.345]

I had an intuition to experiment with a few security settings but
didn't really expect a change and didn't pre-record existing settings,
but as best I remember from review the final state...
Windows Defender Settings > App & browser control
  Check apps and files - changed from WARN ==> OFF
  Exploit protection settings >
     Control flow guard (CFG) - changed ON by default ==> OFF by default
     Data Execution Prevention (DEP) - remained Use default (ON)
     Force randomisation for images (Mandatory ASLR) - remained OFF by default
     Randomise memory allocation (Bottom-up ASLR) - changed from Use
default (ON) ==> OFF by default
     High-entropy ASLR - now disabled "requires Randomise memory allocations"
     Validate exception chains (SEHOP) - change Use default (ON) ==>
OFF by default
     Validate heap integrity - remained Use default (ON)

Those changes required a reboot, so I did that and when I re-ran
Guardian's Squeak.exe
a rotating landscape appeared. So probably fixed one of those changes,
if not the reboot itself.

cheers -ben

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 08:41, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks to all the good people that helped having a working Squeak3D
> plugin for recent VM, I am pleased to announce the release of a game I
> started in 2005 and then let kind of forgot, a remake of The Sentinel
> from 1986 (I used to play this one a lot). It is a Wonderland
> application, and it works in a 5.1 image. Nice:)
>
> So here it is:
> http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/guardians.htm
>
> Still in beta, since I have experimented a fair share of VM crashes, but
> very much playable. See the above page for instructions.
>
>
> Stef
>

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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Stéphane Rollandin
> I thought I'd give it a try.  I downloaded guardians.0.82.zip and
> unzipped it to C:\Apps\Guardians.
> Double-clicking on Squeak.exe gave me a message
> and upon opening says "WARNING: This Squeak does not have real 3D support"
> and "LoadLibrary(C:\Apps\guardians\Squeak3D.dll) (998: Invalid access
> to memory locations).
> There are no log files.
>
> Platform...
> C:> ver
> Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17134.345]
>
> I had an intuition to experiment with a few security settings but
> didn't really expect a change and didn't pre-record existing settings,
> but as best I remember from review the final state...
> Windows Defender Settings > App & browser control
>    Check apps and files - changed from WARN ==> OFF
>    Exploit protection settings >
>       Control flow guard (CFG) - changed ON by default ==> OFF by default
>       Data Execution Prevention (DEP) - remained Use default (ON)
>       Force randomisation for images (Mandatory ASLR) - remained OFF by default
>       Randomise memory allocation (Bottom-up ASLR) - changed from Use
> default (ON) ==> OFF by default
>       High-entropy ASLR - now disabled "requires Randomise memory allocations"
>       Validate exception chains (SEHOP) - change Use default (ON) ==>
> OFF by default
>       Validate heap integrity - remained Use default (ON)
>
> Those changes required a reboot, so I did that and when I re-ran
> Guardian's Squeak.exe
> a rotating landscape appeared. So probably fixed one of those changes,
> if not the reboot itself.
>
> cheers -ben

Wow. Thanks for the feedback. It's hard to make sense of, though. I am
also using Windows Defender (on win 8.1) and has no similar issue. I'll
try on other computers/systems...

Best,

Stef


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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Kjell Godo
yipee a Smalltalk game

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 06:14 Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I thought I'd give it a try.  I downloaded guardians.0.82.zip and
> unzipped it to C:\Apps\Guardians.
> Double-clicking on Squeak.exe gave me a message
> and upon opening says "WARNING: This Squeak does not have real 3D support"
> and "LoadLibrary(C:\Apps\guardians\Squeak3D.dll) (998: Invalid access
> to memory locations).
> There are no log files.
>
> Platform...
> C:> ver
> Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17134.345]
>
> I had an intuition to experiment with a few security settings but
> didn't really expect a change and didn't pre-record existing settings,
> but as best I remember from review the final state...
> Windows Defender Settings > App & browser control
>    Check apps and files - changed from WARN ==> OFF
>    Exploit protection settings >
>       Control flow guard (CFG) - changed ON by default ==> OFF by default
>       Data Execution Prevention (DEP) - remained Use default (ON)
>       Force randomisation for images (Mandatory ASLR) - remained OFF by default
>       Randomise memory allocation (Bottom-up ASLR) - changed from Use
> default (ON) ==> OFF by default
>       High-entropy ASLR - now disabled "requires Randomise memory allocations"
>       Validate exception chains (SEHOP) - change Use default (ON) ==>
> OFF by default
>       Validate heap integrity - remained Use default (ON)
>
> Those changes required a reboot, so I did that and when I re-ran
> Guardian's Squeak.exe
> a rotating landscape appeared. So probably fixed one of those changes,
> if not the reboot itself.
>
> cheers -ben

Wow. Thanks for the feedback. It's hard to make sense of, though. I am
also using Windows Defender (on win 8.1) and has no similar issue. I'll
try on other computers/systems...

Best,

Stef




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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Ben Coman
I played and hour and onto my third game (level 29) before a crash.
Dump attached.
The game is conceptually interesting.

cheers -ben

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 22:06, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I thought I'd give it a try.  I downloaded guardians.0.82.zip and
> unzipped it to C:\Apps\Guardians.
> Double-clicking on Squeak.exe gave me a message
> and upon opening says "WARNING: This Squeak does not have real 3D support"
> and "LoadLibrary(C:\Apps\guardians\Squeak3D.dll) (998: Invalid access
> to memory locations).
> There are no log files.
>
> Platform...
> C:> ver
> Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17134.345]
>
> I had an intuition to experiment with a few security settings but
> didn't really expect a change and didn't pre-record existing settings,
> but as best I remember from review the final state...
> Windows Defender Settings > App & browser control
>   Check apps and files - changed from WARN ==> OFF
>   Exploit protection settings >
>      Control flow guard (CFG) - changed ON by default ==> OFF by default
>      Data Execution Prevention (DEP) - remained Use default (ON)
>      Force randomisation for images (Mandatory ASLR) - remained OFF by default
>      Randomise memory allocation (Bottom-up ASLR) - changed from Use
> default (ON) ==> OFF by default
>      High-entropy ASLR - now disabled "requires Randomise memory allocations"
>      Validate exception chains (SEHOP) - change Use default (ON) ==>
> OFF by default
>      Validate heap integrity - remained Use default (ON)
>
> Those changes required a reboot, so I did that and when I re-ran
> Guardian's Squeak.exe
> a rotating landscape appeared. So probably fixed one of those changes,
> if not the reboot itself.
>
> cheers -ben
>
> On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 08:41, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Thanks to all the good people that helped having a working Squeak3D
> > plugin for recent VM, I am pleased to announce the release of a game I
> > started in 2005 and then let kind of forgot, a remake of The Sentinel
> > from 1986 (I used to play this one a lot). It is a Wonderland
> > application, and it works in a 5.1 image. Nice:)
> >
> > So here it is:
> > http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/guardians.htm
> >
> > Still in beta, since I have experimented a fair share of VM crashes, but
> > very much playable. See the above page for instructions.
> >
> >
> > Stef
> >



crash-2018-11-08a.zip (4K) Download Attachment
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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Ben Coman
> > On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 08:41, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Thanks to all the good people that helped having a working Squeak3D
> > > plugin for recent VM, I am pleased to announce the release of a game I
> > > started in 2005 and then let kind of forgot, a remake of The Sentinel
> > > from 1986 (I used to play this one a lot). It is a Wonderland
> > > application, and it works in a 5.1 image. Nice:)
> > >
> > > So here it is:
> > > http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/guardians.htm
> > >
> > > Still in beta, since I have experimented a fair share of VM crashes, but
> > > very much playable. See the above page for instructions.


> On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 22:06, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I thought I'd give it a try.  I downloaded guardians.0.82.zip and
> > unzipped it to C:\Apps\Guardians.
> > Double-clicking on Squeak.exe gave me a message
> > and upon opening says "WARNING: This Squeak does not have real 3D support"
> > and "LoadLibrary(C:\Apps\guardians\Squeak3D.dll) (998: Invalid access to memory locations).
> > There are no log files.
> >
> > Platform...
> > C:> ver
> > Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17134.345]
> >
> > I had an intuition to experiment with a few security settings but
> > didn't really expect a change and didn't pre-record existing settings,
> > but as best I remember from review the final state...
> > Windows Defender Settings > App & browser control
> >   Check apps and files - changed from WARN ==> OFF
> >   Exploit protection settings >
> >      Control flow guard (CFG) - changed ON by default ==> OFF by default
> >      Data Execution Prevention (DEP) - remained Use default (ON)
> >      Force randomisation for images (Mandatory ASLR) - remained OFF by default
> >      Randomise memory allocation (Bottom-up ASLR) - changed from Use default (ON) ==> OFF by default
> >      High-entropy ASLR - now disabled "requires Randomise memory allocations"
> >      Validate exception chains (SEHOP) - change Use default (ON) ==> OFF by default
> >      Validate heap integrity - remained Use default (ON)
> >
> > Those changes required a reboot, so I did that and when I re-ran
> > Guardian's Squeak.exe
> > a rotating landscape appeared. So probably fixed one of those changes,
> > if not the reboot itself.


On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 23:27, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I played and hour and onto my third game (level 29) before a crash.
> Dump attached.

> The game is conceptually interesting.

I re-enabled setting... Randomise Memory Allocation (Bottom-up ASLR), and rebooted, 
and the game crashed on load with the same error "LoadLibrary(C:\Apps\guardians\Squeak3D.dll) (998: Invalid access to memory locations).

After disabling "Randomise memory allocation" and reverting all the other settings I had changed and rebooting
the game ran fine.  

I've attached the exported-settings files for both scenarios.

from here...

I wouldn't be surprised if over the next few years that platforms move to default mandatory ASLR.

cheers -ben



Settings.zip (2K) Download Attachment
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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Stéphane Rollandin
 >  > I played and hour and onto my third game (level 29) before a crash.
 >  > Dump attached.

Thanks. Yes, crashes are expected at the moment. I have had many but
still cannot corner their pattern. Note that your progress should not be
lost though, the game updates the image on disk for each completed
landscape. So you can keep playing :)


 > After disabling "Randomise memory allocation" and reverting all the
 > other settings I had changed and rebooting
 > the game ran fine.

That's interesting. I have been biten by this actually, with other
plugins; I was not aware of this ASLR thingy...


Best,

Stef

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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin


On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 08:41, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Thanks to all the good people that helped having a working Squeak3D
plugin for recent VM, I am pleased to announce the release of a game I
started in 2005 and then let kind of forgot, a remake of The Sentinel
from 1986 (I used to play this one a lot). It is a Wonderland
application, and it works in a 5.1 image. Nice:)

So here it is:
http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/guardians.htm

Still in beta, since I have experimented a fair share of VM crashes, but
very much playable. See the above page for instructions.

Some feedback on the gameplay.

1. After transfer to a robot the view direction is reversed so you are looking at the robot you just came from to make it quicker to absorb.
But it doesn't reverse the height vector, so if you build a high tower of boulders, its annoying and time consuming to arrow down to view the previous robot.

2. It would be nice to see the robot starting position on the rotating level overview.
What I find myself doing on a new level is entering a game just to have a look around to determine the staring position, 
then <Escape> back to the level overview to plan a strategy,

3. The arrow keys are a long way from the other main action keys  R, A, B when my right hand is on the mouse.
its might be nice to have S, E, F C are the navigation keys.  Then my hand won't have to keep jumping around the keyboard.

4. Even better would be looking around using a right-click-drag.

5. A key to look directly at sentinels would be nice.  
After transferring to a new robot the first thing I want to do is check my visibility to the sentinel.
If the transfer was steeply up/down it can be disorientating and time consuming to find the sentinel.

cheers -ben


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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Stéphane Rollandin
 > Some feedback on the gameplay.

Nice!

 >
 > 1. After transfer to a robot the view direction is reversed so you are
 > looking at the robot you just came from to make it quicker to absorb.
 > But it doesn't reverse the height vector, so if you build a high tower
 > of boulders, its annoying and time consuming to arrow down to view the
 > previous robot.

Yes, it is annoying. But this is part of the gameplay. Consider this: at
times, what you want from a high-level position on a stack of boulders
is a fast view on another high spot (such as, obviously, the sentinel).
Once transferred, you just have to press the arrows or U (do not
underestimate the importance of a fast u-turn) to get that. If you were
looking down, it would be a problem.

In fact, absorbing the previous robot is important, but not always
possible. At times you are just running away as far and fast as you can,
and leave behind an old shell (and some boulders, also) that you can
absorb later, or in the form of new trees.

 >
 > 2. It would be nice to see the robot starting position on the rotating
 > level overview.
 > What I find myself doing on a new level is entering a game just to have
 > a look around to determine the staring position,
 > then <Escape> back to the level overview to plan a strategy,

Yes, this is also what I do. In the original game, once the landscape
was entered, you had no more overview. And the landscape was shown from
a single frontal perspective, with only the sentinel and sentries
displayed (no trees). Not to mention a player camera with a much
narrower angle of view, making it much more difficult to understand
where things are.


 >
 > 3. The arrow keys are a long way from the other main action keys  R, A,
 > B when my right hand is on the mouse.
 > its might be nice to have S, E, F C are the navigation keys.  Then my
 > hand won't have to keep jumping around the keyboard.

Ah, ok. I will implement a way to remap the keys, just as I did with my
"Saucers!" game.

 >
 > 4. Even better would be looking around using a right-click-drag.

Hmm. As for points 1, 2, and 5, this is about the gameplay. The Sentinel
(the original game) is both a fast and a slow game: things do not go
fast, but time is always short. It is critical that the player is not
too agile (I have seen other remakes where this is the case), so that he
feels some pain in moving around, and has to struggle a bit to make
sense of his position. The landscape must be somewhat overwhelming.

But still, you are right that using the mouse to see around should be
possible. It was in the original game, in a very (and typical) clunky
way: by leaving the cursor on one side of the display, the view would
slowly and incrementally rotate. I will do something akin.

 >
 > 5. A key to look directly at sentinels would be nice.
 > After transferring to a new robot the first thing I want to do is check
 > my visibility to the sentinel.
 > If the transfer was steeply up/down it can be disorientating and time
 > consuming to find the sentinel.

This is definitely intended. Every action from the player has to be
expensive to some extent. And no help for automatic orientation should
be provided.


In short, I have attempted to recreate a game that I know well and that
I played a lot in my youth. I believe I succeeded in the sense that the
feeling and atmosphere I get from Guardians is very close to what I got
from The Sentinel (with a different balance of features and performance
though). So I would say give it a chance and let it grow on you. It is a
very peculiar game.

Now overall do you enjoy the game, or are those annoying parts actually,
well, annoying?


Cheers,

Stef




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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Stéphane Rollandin
In reply to this post by Ben Coman
> I played and hour and onto my third game (level 29) before a crash.
> Dump attached.

I just uploaded verion 0.83 which seems to be less crash-prone to me (I
went to level 251 without a crash). I just bypassed a primitive.

http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/guardians/guardians.0.83.zip


Also there is now a way to keep your progression from one development
version of the game to another: in the old game, press L. This will dump
a file in the game folder. Then start the new game in the same folder,
and press L before you win any level. This will import your previous
progression.

This way it should be possible to debug crashes and stuff and not have
to start over all the time.


Cheers,

Stef

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Re: [ANN] Guardians

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin


On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 17:39, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
 > Some feedback on the gameplay.

Nice!

 >
 > 1. After transfer to a robot the view direction is reversed so you are
 > looking at the robot you just came from to make it quicker to absorb.
 > But it doesn't reverse the height vector, so if you build a high tower
 > of boulders, its annoying and time consuming to arrow down to view the
 > previous robot.

Yes, it is annoying. But this is part of the gameplay. Consider this: at
times, what you want from a high-level position on a stack of boulders
is a fast view on another high spot (such as, obviously, the sentinel).
Once transferred, you just have to press the arrows or U (do not
underestimate the importance of a fast u-turn) to get that. If you were
looking down, it would be a problem.

Okay. I udnerstand.

Actually I've since discovered that I don't need to be look up directly at the target robot,
I can keep looking at the base where I was looking when laying down the first boulders.
With that its reasonable.
 

 > 5. A key to look directly at sentinels would be nice.
 > After transferring to a new robot the first thing I want to do is check
 > my visibility to the sentinel.
 > If the transfer was steeply up/down it can be disorientating and time
 > consuming to find the sentinel.

This is definitely intended. Every action from the player has to be
expensive to some extent. And no help for automatic orientation should
be provided.

okay.
 

In short, I have attempted to recreate a game that I know well and that
I played a lot in my youth. I believe I succeeded in the sense that the
feeling and atmosphere I get from Guardians is very close to what I got
from The Sentinel (with a different balance of features and performance
though). So I would say give it a chance and let it grow on you. It is a
very peculiar game.

Now overall do you enjoy the game, or are those annoying parts actually,
well, annoying?

By way of answer I'll just say that I've cracked level 400.  
I'd say the most annoying thing about it is that is very distracting.
I did need a break from some heavy reading I'm doing, but not that much. 

Well done with the game.
cheers -ben