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[ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

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Stéphane Rollandin

[ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

The Heart of the Snake King, a pompous name I gave to a fine generative
visual art piece (also a pompous way of refering to a pretty animation),
can be found at:

www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip

Stef

David T. Lewis

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:16:39AM +0200, St??phane Rollandin wrote:
> The Heart of the Snake King, a pompous name I gave to a fine generative
> visual art piece (also a pompous way of refering to a pretty animation),
> can be found at:
>
> www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip
>
> Stef
>

Very nice work! Thanks for sharing.

Dave

Karl Ramberg

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin

Very nice. I have wanted to make some Voronoi fields but never gotten around to it.

PS: It was surprisingly hard to find a VM to make this run.

Tried on squeak.cog.spur_win64x64_202006171651

The VM just dies without any warning or messages.

After many tries I got it to run on a 32 bit VM

squeak.cog.spur_win32x86_202006171651

Some feedback from the VM would be nice.

I (obviously) don't know how hard that would be to implement.

Best,

Karl

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:16 AM Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:

The Heart of the Snake King, a pompous name I gave to a fine generative
visual art piece (also a pompous way of refering to a pretty animation),
can be found at:

www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip

Stef

Stéphane Rollandin

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

> > PS: It was surprisingly hard to find a VM to make this run.
...
> > After many tries I got it to run on a 32 bit VM
> > squeak.cog.spur_win32x86_202006171651

Ah yes, sorry, I totally forgot to mention this was a 32-bit image.

Stef

fniephaus

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:35 PM Stéphane Rollandin
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > PS: It was surprisingly hard to find a VM to make this run.
> ...
> > > After many tries I got it to run on a 32 bit VM
> > > squeak.cog.spur_win32x86_202006171651
>
> Ah yes, sorry, I totally forgot to mention this was a 32-bit image.

Can't open 32-bit images anymore on macOS Catalina -.- ...but works on
SqueakJS! :)

Fabio

>
> Stef
>

Nicolas Cellier

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg

Hi Karl,

the broken Win64 is related to this: https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/498

I have identified the root cause to be a change of compiler flags, so it shall be easy to fix (a 3 liner).

We need to check why those changes were added (for building Terf on Win64 with clang.exe and native MS tools/libs) and if we can safely remove them.

Eliot shall know, but he seems a bit busy ATM.

Le mer. 24 juin 2020 à 10:41, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Very nice. I have wanted to make some Voronoi fields but never gotten around to it.

PS: It was surprisingly hard to find a VM to make this run.
Tried on squeak.cog.spur_win64x64_202006171651
The VM just dies without any warning or messages.

After many tries I got it to run on a 32 bit VM
squeak.cog.spur_win32x86_202006171651

Some feedback from the VM would be nice.

I (obviously) don't know how hard that would be to implement.

Best,
Karl

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:16 AM Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Heart of the Snake King, a pompous name I gave to a fine generative
visual art piece (also a pompous way of refering to a pretty animation),
can be found at:

www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip

Stef

Karl Ramberg

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:49 PM Nicolas Cellier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Karl,
the broken Win64 is related to this: https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/498
I have identified the root cause to be a change of compiler flags, so it shall be easy to fix (a 3 liner).
We need to check why those changes were added (for building Terf on Win64 with clang.exe and native MS tools/libs) and if we can safely remove them.
Eliot shall know, but he seems a bit busy ATM.

Thanks for the info.

So there were 2 issues causing my grievance ;-)

I tested the image with older 64 bit Vm as well and the VM and image never started up, it just disappeared without any warnings or other information about what went wrong.

As Stephane mentioned it needs a 32 bit VM which worked fine.

Best,

Karl

Le mer. 24 juin 2020 à 10:41, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> a écrit :
Very nice. I have wanted to make some Voronoi fields but never gotten around to it.

PS: It was surprisingly hard to find a VM to make this run.
Tried on squeak.cog.spur_win64x64_202006171651
The VM just dies without any warning or messages.

After many tries I got it to run on a 32 bit VM
squeak.cog.spur_win32x86_202006171651

Some feedback from the VM would be nice.

I (obviously) don't know how hard that would be to implement.

Best,
Karl

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:16 AM Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Heart of the Snake King, a pompous name I gave to a fine generative
visual art piece (also a pompous way of refering to a pretty animation),
can be found at:

www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip

Stef

Karl Ramberg

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin

The LSystem in this image is also awesome.

The LSystemPlotter with zoom on scroll wheel adds so much for viewing :-)

I have made some versions of LSystem myself but not any this good.

Best,

Karl

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:16 AM Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:

The Heart of the Snake King, a pompous name I gave to a fine generative
visual art piece (also a pompous way of refering to a pretty animation),
can be found at:

www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip

Stef

codefrau

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

Nice!

Btw, you can run that zip directly in SqueakJS. Just click this link:

https://squeak.js.org/run/#zip=https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com/http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip

(if https and CORS were enabled on zogotounga then it would even work without the proxy)

- Vanessa -

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 10:48 AM karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

The LSystem in this image is also awesome.
The LSystemPlotter with zoom on scroll wheel adds so much for viewing :-)
I have made some versions of LSystem myself but not any this good.

Best,
Karl

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:16 AM Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Heart of the Snake King, a pompous name I gave to a fine generative
visual art piece (also a pompous way of refering to a pretty animation),
can be found at:

www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip

Stef

K K Subbu

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On 25/06/20 7:13 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
> Nice!
>
> Btw, you can run that zip directly in SqueakJS. Just click this link:
>
> https://squeak.js.org/run/#zip=https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com/http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip
The VM loads the zip, unpacks the contents and loads the image and then
deletes the zip, image and also the changes file from memory. The image
complains about missing changes file :-(.

Regards .. Subbu

codefrau

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:27 AM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 25/06/20 7:13 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
> Nice!
>
> Btw, you can run that zip directly in SqueakJS. Just click this link:
>
> https://squeak.js.org/run/#zip=https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com/http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip
The VM loads the zip, unpacks the contents and loads the image and then
deletes the zip, image and also the changes file from memory. The image
complains about missing changes file :-(.

Interesting. What browser are you using?

I verified it works on Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.

Vanessa

fniephaus

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:33 PM Vanessa Freudenberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:27 AM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 25/06/20 7:13 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
>> > Nice!
>> >
>> > Btw, you can run that zip directly in SqueakJS. Just click this link:
>> >
>> > https://squeak.js.org/run/#zip=https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com/http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip
>> The VM loads the zip, unpacks the contents and loads the image and then
>> deletes the zip, image and also the changes file from memory. The image
>> complains about missing changes file :-(.
>
>
> Interesting. What browser are you using?
>
> I verified it works on Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.

Maybe it's the sources file, not the changes file? That one is missing
in the zip and may be cached in your browser, Vanessa?

Fabio

>
> Vanessa
>
>

codefrau

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:37 AM Fabio Niephaus <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:33 PM Vanessa Freudenberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:27 AM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 25/06/20 7:13 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
>> > Nice!
>> >
>> > Btw, you can run that zip directly in SqueakJS. Just click this link:
>> >
>> > https://squeak.js.org/run/#zip=https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com/http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip
>> The VM loads the zip, unpacks the contents and loads the image and then
>> deletes the zip, image and also the changes file from memory. The image
>> complains about missing changes file :-(.
>
>
> Interesting. What browser are you using?
>
> I verified it works on Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.

Maybe it's the sources file, not the changes file? That one is missing
in the zip and may be cached in your browser, Vanessa?

Fabio

Do you see that behavior too?

It works for me even if I clear the browser cache or use an incognito window.

Vanessa

fniephaus

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:36 PM Vanessa Freudenberg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:37 AM Fabio Niephaus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:33 PM Vanessa Freudenberg
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:27 AM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 25/06/20 7:13 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
>> >> > Nice!
>> >> >
>> >> > Btw, you can run that zip directly in SqueakJS. Just click this link:
>> >> >
>> >> > https://squeak.js.org/run/#zip=https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com/http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/HeartOfSnakeKing.zip
>> >> The VM loads the zip, unpacks the contents and loads the image and then
>> >> deletes the zip, image and also the changes file from memory. The image
>> >> complains about missing changes file :-(.
>> >
>> >
>> > Interesting. What browser are you using?
>> >
>> > I verified it works on Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.
>>
>> Maybe it's the sources file, not the changes file? That one is missing
>> in the zip and may be cached in your browser, Vanessa?
>>
>> Fabio
>
>
> Do you see that behavior too?
>
> It works for me even if I clear the browser cache or use an incognito window.

Nope, the link works for me, too.

Fabio

>
> Vanessa
>

K K Subbu

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

In reply to this post by codefrau

On 26/06/20 12:03 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
> Interesting. What browser are you using?
>
> I verified it works on Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.

Firefox 77.0.1 (64-bit). I had the JS console open and saw the message
about .zip, .image and .changes being deleted after the .image was
downloaded. The image also threw up an error dialog about missing .changes.

Could this be because I was running low on RAM? Swapping was high during
this time.

Regards .. Subbu

K K Subbu

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

In reply to this post by codefrau

On 26/06/20 12:03 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
> Interesting. What browser are you using?
>
> I verified it works on Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.

Firefox was running in private mode. If I use regular mode, then the
code works.

In private mode, the image reports "Squeak cannot locate the changes
file named /SqueakJS/HeartOfSnakeKing.changes"

This is what I grabbed from the JS console:
-----
SpeechPlugin: Web Speech API is not supported by this browser.
squeak.js:38111:14
Unknown property ‘-moz-box-shadow’. Declaration dropped.
gh-fork-ribbon.css:27:19
InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13
Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13
File /HeartOfSnakeKing.zip (27219201 bytes) too large, storing in memory
only squeak.js:7925:17
Stored /HeartOfSnakeKing.zip squeak.js:54288:12
Inflating HeartOfSnakeKing.zip: HeartOfSnakeKing.changes squeak.js:54324:13
Inflating HeartOfSnakeKing.zip: HeartOfSnakeKing.image squeak.js:54324:13
Expanded size of HeartOfSnakeKing.changes: 48839152 squeak.js:54327:14
Expanded size of HeartOfSnakeKing.image: 55392848 squeak.js:54327:14
InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13
Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13
File /HeartOfSnakeKing.changes (48839152 bytes) too large, storing in
memory only squeak.js:7925:17
Stored /HeartOfSnakeKing.changes squeak.js:54288:12
InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13
Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13
File /HeartOfSnakeKing.image (55392848 bytes) too large, storing in
memory only squeak.js:7925:17
Stored /HeartOfSnakeKing.image squeak.js:54288:12
squeak: reading /HeartOfSnakeKing.image (55392848 bytes) squeak.js:1256:12
InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13
Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13
Deleting stale file entry /HeartOfSnakeKing.zip squeak.js:7779:15
Deleting stale file entry /HeartOfSnakeKing.changes squeak.js:7779:15
Deleting stale file entry /HeartOfSnakeKing.image squeak.js:7779:15
squeak fsck: 0 directories, 0 files, 0.0 MBytes squeak.js:7791:13
squeak: initializing interpreter SqueakJS 0.9.9 squeak.js:2314:12
squeak: initializing JIT compiler squeak.js:2418:13
squeak: ready squeak.js:2324:12
....

HTH .. Subbu

Tobias Pape

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

Hi

> On 26.06.2020, at 08:37, K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 26/06/20 12:03 am, Vanessa Freudenberg wrote:
>> Interesting. What browser are you using?
>> I verified it works on Chrome, Firefox, and Safari.
>
> Firefox was running in private mode. If I use regular mode, then the code works.
>
> In private mode, the image reports "Squeak cannot locate the changes file named /SqueakJS/HeartOfSnakeKing.changes"

In private mode, several session storage APIs of Firefox are forbidden to be used.

>
> This is what I grabbed from the JS console:
> -----
> SpeechPlugin: Web Speech API is not supported by this browser. squeak.js:38111:14
> Unknown property ‘-moz-box-shadow’. Declaration dropped. gh-fork-ribbon.css:27:19
> InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13

As said above, that kind of storage (IndexedDB?) cannot be used in Private mode.

> Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13

So it is using local storage, with limited size.

> File /HeartOfSnakeKing.zip (27219201 bytes) too large, storing in memory only squeak.js:7925:17

OK the zip is in memory only now.

> Stored /HeartOfSnakeKing.zip squeak.js:54288:12
> Inflating HeartOfSnakeKing.zip: HeartOfSnakeKing.changes squeak.js:54324:13
> Inflating HeartOfSnakeKing.zip: HeartOfSnakeKing.image squeak.js:54324:13
> Expanded size of HeartOfSnakeKing.changes: 48839152 squeak.js:54327:14
> Expanded size of HeartOfSnakeKing.image: 55392848 squeak.js:54327:14
> InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13
> Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13
> File /HeartOfSnakeKing.changes (48839152 bytes) too large, storing in memory only squeak.js:7925:17

Thats the problem, SqueakJS cannot access the file by name now, if I read that correctly.

> Stored /HeartOfSnakeKing.changes squeak.js:54288:12
> InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13
> Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13
> File /HeartOfSnakeKing.image (55392848 bytes) too large, storing in memory only squeak.js:7925:17

Same here, but the image is loaded and executed and does not need to be referenced by name anymore.

> Stored /HeartOfSnakeKing.image squeak.js:54288:12
> squeak: reading /HeartOfSnakeKing.image (55392848 bytes) squeak.js:1256:12
> InvalidStateError: cannot open files database squeak.js:7873:13
> Falling back to local storage squeak.js:7874:13
> Deleting stale file entry /HeartOfSnakeKing.zip squeak.js:7779:15
> Deleting stale file entry /HeartOfSnakeKing.changes squeak.js:7779:15
> Deleting stale file entry /HeartOfSnakeKing.image squeak.js:7779:15
> squeak fsck: 0 directories, 0 files, 0.0 MBytes squeak.js:7791:13

Yeah, the "virtual filesystem" that squeakjs emulates with the indexedDB? is now empty, so Squeak cannot find the Changes file.

> squeak: initializing interpreter SqueakJS 0.9.9 squeak.js:2314:12
> squeak: initializing JIT compiler squeak.js:2418:13
> squeak: ready squeak.js:2324:12
> ....
>
> HTH .. Subbu
>

Best regards
-Tobias

K K Subbu

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On 26/06/20 12:44 pm, Tobias Pape wrote:
> In private mode, several session storage APIs of Firefox are
> forbidden to be used.

Thank you, Tobias, for your detailed analysis of the log.

I wonder if it is possible to hold changes file in memory too, just like
the image. The changes file is only around 48MB. If held in memory, it
may increase its footprint to around 200MB, still small for a 64bit system.

Regards .. Subbu

codefrau

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:42 AM K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 26/06/20 12:44 pm, Tobias Pape wrote:
> In private mode, several session storage APIs of Firefox are
> forbidden to be used.

Thank you, Tobias, for your detailed analysis of the log.

I wonder if it is possible to hold changes file in memory too, just like
the image. The changes file is only around 48MB. If held in memory, it
may increase its footprint to around 200MB, still small for a 64bit system.

Regards .. Subbu

Yes, it's supposed to fall back to simply keeping stuff in memory, especially for things too big for localStorage.

The bug, as Tobias pointed out, is that the fsck routine does not "see" the files in memory, and is clearing out the corresponding directory entries. So when the image then tries to open the files, they are not found. Will fix.

Thanks for reporting!

Vanessa

Tobias Pape

Re: [ANN] The Heart of the Snake King

In reply to this post by K K Subbu

> On 26.06.2020, at 18:42, K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 26/06/20 12:44 pm, Tobias Pape wrote:
>> In private mode, several session storage APIs of Firefox are
>> forbidden to be used.
>
> Thank you, Tobias, for your detailed analysis of the log.
>
> I wonder if it is possible to hold changes file in memory too, just like the image. The changes file is only around 48MB. If held in memory, it may increase its footprint to around 200MB, still small for a 64bit system.
>

I don't think the problem is the size after all.
The problem is that in private mode, apis and resources are limited and as a result of that,
the loaded files do not look like they're in that file system. But Squeak needs them looking like files.

I presume the changes file is still around in memory but squeak on squeakjs is just not seeing them

Best regards
-Tobias