[ANN] skeletal animation package

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[ANN] skeletal animation package

David Faught
This looks pretty cool!  What are you using for the motion capture
part of this project?  There is some interesting stuff in the "extras"
part of the Monster House movie DVD that shows their setup.  Is it
similar to that?

Peter Moore wrote:
I've just uploaded a new SkeletalAnimation package to the Jabberwocky
code repository. I've also uploaded new versions of the OpenGL
packages which include the support for GLSL that has previously been
available in the Hedgehog Public Contributions repository. For those
that don't know where the Jabberwocky code lives see:

http://croquetproject.org/index.php/ Downloads#Croquet_Source_Code_Repositories

To see a video demonstration go to: http://hedgehog.software.umn.edu/
croquet/croquetMovies/BetterAvatars3.mov

Special thanks to Derek Arndt and Mike Kaeding for all of their hard
work this summer.
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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

Peter Moore-5
There is a motion capture lab here at the University that we were  
lucky enough to get access to. I haven't seen what they used for  
Monster House but I'm sure it's something very similar. Keep in mind  
that our code doesn't care where the animation data came from.  You  
can animate your characters with an animations created in Maya,  
Blender or 3DSMax. You could also manipulate the skeleton procedurally.

-Peter

On Aug 29, 2007, at 1:06 PM, David Faught wrote:

> This looks pretty cool!  What are you using for the motion capture
> part of this project?  There is some interesting stuff in the "extras"
> part of the Monster House movie DVD that shows their setup.  Is it
> similar to that?
>
> Peter Moore wrote:
> I've just uploaded a new SkeletalAnimation package to the Jabberwocky
> code repository. I've also uploaded new versions of the OpenGL
> packages which include the support for GLSL that has previously been
> available in the Hedgehog Public Contributions repository. For those
> that don't know where the Jabberwocky code lives see:
>
> http://croquetproject.org/index.php/ 
> Downloads#Croquet_Source_Code_Repositories
>
> To see a video demonstration go to: http://hedgehog.software.umn.edu/
> croquet/croquetMovies/BetterAvatars3.mov
>
> Special thanks to Derek Arndt and Mike Kaeding for all of their hard
> work this summer.

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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

David Faught
back on the list

Hi Peter,

Here is a brief discussion we had about building a working
publicly-available example of the skeletal animation.  Maybe you can
elaborate on what would be required, and I will volunteer to
coordinate a public effort to build it, or them ...

Any volunteers that would like to participate??

Dave

On 8/30/07, David Faught <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Depending on what is required, yes, I'd be interested on working on
> that.  It might also be worth an appeal for participation on the
> mailing list.  I'm getting to a point now where I'm going to set aside
> the Wrinkle project for a while, although there are tons more things
> to do with shaders and even the UI.  I have tried my hand at animation
> a few different times in different computer mediums, and I've been
> intending to try it in Croquet too.
>
> Just from searching though lots of 3D tools, I've come across some
> things that may be important for this, but I'm certainly not an
> expert.  Speaking of which, have you looked at QAvimator
> http://www.qavimator.org/ at all?  It's an interesting open source bvh
> animator targetting Second Life.  Might be a good fit here, depending
> on skeletal requirements.
>
> Later,
> Dave
>
> On 8/30/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'd love to provide some good examples but the models that we've been
> > using were purchased online and I can't redistribute them. So until
> > we have some good freely available meshes it's not of much use.
> > Someone could take the meshes we released earlier and get them to
> > work with the new animation system, but that's not something we can
> > spend time on at the moment. Let me know if you're interested enough
> > to try something like that and I can tell you what needs to be done.
> >
> > -Peter
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:34 PM, David Faught wrote:
> >
> > > off-list
> > >
> > > Hi Peter,
> > >
> > > Hhmm, I quickly updated and looked through this last night and didn't
> > > see a concrete example anywhere.  Did I miss it?  If not, what would
> > > be the simplest quickest way to try it out?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > On 8/29/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> There is a motion capture lab here at the University that we were
> > >> lucky enough to get access to. I haven't seen what they used for
> > >> Monster House but I'm sure it's something very similar. Keep in mind
> > >> that our code doesn't care where the animation data came from.  You
> > >> can animate your characters with an animations created in Maya,
> > >> Blender or 3DSMax. You could also manipulate the skeleton
> > >> procedurally.
> > >>
> > >> -Peter
> > >>
> > >> On Aug 29, 2007, at 1:06 PM, David Faught wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> This looks pretty cool!  What are you using for the motion capture
> > >>> part of this project?  There is some interesting stuff in the
> > >>> "extras"
> > >>> part of the Monster House movie DVD that shows their setup.  Is it
> > >>> similar to that?
> > >>>
> > >>> Peter Moore wrote:
> > >>> I've just uploaded a new SkeletalAnimation package to the
> > >>> Jabberwocky
> > >>> code repository. I've also uploaded new versions of the OpenGL
> > >>> packages which include the support for GLSL that has previously been
> > >>> available in the Hedgehog Public Contributions repository. For those
> > >>> that don't know where the Jabberwocky code lives see:
> > >>>
> > >>> http://croquetproject.org/index.php/
> > >>> Downloads#Croquet_Source_Code_Repositories
> > >>>
> > >>> To see a video demonstration go to: http://
> > >>> hedgehog.software.umn.edu/
> > >>> croquet/croquetMovies/BetterAvatars3.mov
> > >>>
> > >>> Special thanks to Derek Arndt and Mike Kaeding for all of their hard
> > >>> work this summer.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

Derek Arndt
Hey Dave,

With the skeletal animation package available to the public we're  
happy to have people using the code and building applications with it  
- what we don't currently offer are any models we can freely  
distribute for people to at least initially test with.  We're looking  
to get one or more character meshes with a skeleton and a few  
animations (say stand, walk, dance) to show-case what these animated  
models are like and how others can use them in their croquet projects.

We've been using Maya to create these models, but since we use the  
ogre model format, a number of other popular programs support the  
format (blender, 3ds max, to name a few).

Peter will add on some details, but this is the gist of it.  This new  
animated mesh class has tons of potential that we're trying to make  
it as easy as possible to jump in and get a feel for what kinds of  
things you can create.

Derek


On Aug 31, 2007, at 11:58 AM, David Faught wrote:

> back on the list
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Here is a brief discussion we had about building a working
> publicly-available example of the skeletal animation.  Maybe you can
> elaborate on what would be required, and I will volunteer to
> coordinate a public effort to build it, or them ...
>
> Any volunteers that would like to participate??
>
> Dave
>
> On 8/30/07, David Faught <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Depending on what is required, yes, I'd be interested on working on
>> that.  It might also be worth an appeal for participation on the
>> mailing list.  I'm getting to a point now where I'm going to set  
>> aside
>> the Wrinkle project for a while, although there are tons more things
>> to do with shaders and even the UI.  I have tried my hand at  
>> animation
>> a few different times in different computer mediums, and I've been
>> intending to try it in Croquet too.
>>
>> Just from searching though lots of 3D tools, I've come across some
>> things that may be important for this, but I'm certainly not an
>> expert.  Speaking of which, have you looked at QAvimator
>> http://www.qavimator.org/ at all?  It's an interesting open source  
>> bvh
>> animator targetting Second Life.  Might be a good fit here, depending
>> on skeletal requirements.
>>
>> Later,
>> Dave
>>
>> On 8/30/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I'd love to provide some good examples but the models that we've  
>>> been
>>> using were purchased online and I can't redistribute them. So until
>>> we have some good freely available meshes it's not of much use.
>>> Someone could take the meshes we released earlier and get them to
>>> work with the new animation system, but that's not something we can
>>> spend time on at the moment. Let me know if you're interested enough
>>> to try something like that and I can tell you what needs to be done.
>>>
>>> -Peter
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:34 PM, David Faught wrote:
>>>
>>>> off-list
>>>>
>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>
>>>> Hhmm, I quickly updated and looked through this last night and  
>>>> didn't
>>>> see a concrete example anywhere.  Did I miss it?  If not, what  
>>>> would
>>>> be the simplest quickest way to try it out?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On 8/29/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> There is a motion capture lab here at the University that we were
>>>>> lucky enough to get access to. I haven't seen what they used for
>>>>> Monster House but I'm sure it's something very similar. Keep in  
>>>>> mind
>>>>> that our code doesn't care where the animation data came from.  
>>>>> You
>>>>> can animate your characters with an animations created in Maya,
>>>>> Blender or 3DSMax. You could also manipulate the skeleton
>>>>> procedurally.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 29, 2007, at 1:06 PM, David Faught wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This looks pretty cool!  What are you using for the motion  
>>>>>> capture
>>>>>> part of this project?  There is some interesting stuff in the
>>>>>> "extras"
>>>>>> part of the Monster House movie DVD that shows their setup.  
>>>>>> Is it
>>>>>> similar to that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Moore wrote:
>>>>>> I've just uploaded a new SkeletalAnimation package to the
>>>>>> Jabberwocky
>>>>>> code repository. I've also uploaded new versions of the OpenGL
>>>>>> packages which include the support for GLSL that has  
>>>>>> previously been
>>>>>> available in the Hedgehog Public Contributions repository. For  
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> that don't know where the Jabberwocky code lives see:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://croquetproject.org/index.php/
>>>>>> Downloads#Croquet_Source_Code_Repositories
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To see a video demonstration go to: http://
>>>>>> hedgehog.software.umn.edu/
>>>>>> croquet/croquetMovies/BetterAvatars3.mov
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Special thanks to Derek Arndt and Mike Kaeding for all of  
>>>>>> their hard
>>>>>> work this summer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

David Faught
On 8/31/07, Derek Arndt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hey Dave,

Hey Derek,


> With the skeletal animation package available to the public we're
> happy to have people using the code and building applications with it
> - what we don't currently offer are any models we can freely
> distribute for people to at least initially test with.  We're looking
> to get one or more character meshes with a skeleton and a few
> animations (say stand, walk, dance) to show-case what these animated
> models are like and how others can use them in their croquet projects.
>
> We've been using Maya to create these models, but since we use the
> ogre model format, a number of other popular programs support the
> format (blender, 3ds max, to name a few).

Okay, that makes sense.  I guess my first questions would be in the
area of the ogre format and what it encompasses.  The pieces that I'm
guessing would be needed are: 1) the mesh(es), 2) related textures,
colors, etc., 3) the skeleton(s) (I don't really know exactly what
that entails in relation to the mesh), and one or more animations
maybe consisting of some kind of timeline and absolute and/or relative
skeleton positions at each time.  How much of this is in the ogre
format?  Are there related standards, such as HAnim or SL avatar
structures and how does your package relate to them?

>
> Peter will add on some details, but this is the gist of it.  This new
> animated mesh class has tons of potential that we're trying to make
> it as easy as possible to jump in and get a feel for what kinds of
> things you can create.
>
> Derek

Thanks for your input.

Dave

>
>
> On Aug 31, 2007, at 11:58 AM, David Faught wrote:
>
> > back on the list
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Here is a brief discussion we had about building a working
> > publicly-available example of the skeletal animation.  Maybe you can
> > elaborate on what would be required, and I will volunteer to
> > coordinate a public effort to build it, or them ...
> >
> > Any volunteers that would like to participate??
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 8/30/07, David Faught <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Depending on what is required, yes, I'd be interested on working on
> >> that.  It might also be worth an appeal for participation on the
> >> mailing list.  I'm getting to a point now where I'm going to set
> >> aside
> >> the Wrinkle project for a while, although there are tons more things
> >> to do with shaders and even the UI.  I have tried my hand at
> >> animation
> >> a few different times in different computer mediums, and I've been
> >> intending to try it in Croquet too.
> >>
> >> Just from searching though lots of 3D tools, I've come across some
> >> things that may be important for this, but I'm certainly not an
> >> expert.  Speaking of which, have you looked at QAvimator
> >> http://www.qavimator.org/ at all?  It's an interesting open source
> >> bvh
> >> animator targetting Second Life.  Might be a good fit here, depending
> >> on skeletal requirements.
> >>
> >> Later,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> On 8/30/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> I'd love to provide some good examples but the models that we've
> >>> been
> >>> using were purchased online and I can't redistribute them. So until
> >>> we have some good freely available meshes it's not of much use.
> >>> Someone could take the meshes we released earlier and get them to
> >>> work with the new animation system, but that's not something we can
> >>> spend time on at the moment. Let me know if you're interested enough
> >>> to try something like that and I can tell you what needs to be done.
> >>>
> >>> -Peter
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:34 PM, David Faught wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> off-list
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Peter,
> >>>>
> >>>> Hhmm, I quickly updated and looked through this last night and
> >>>> didn't
> >>>> see a concrete example anywhere.  Did I miss it?  If not, what
> >>>> would
> >>>> be the simplest quickest way to try it out?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>> On 8/29/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>> There is a motion capture lab here at the University that we were
> >>>>> lucky enough to get access to. I haven't seen what they used for
> >>>>> Monster House but I'm sure it's something very similar. Keep in
> >>>>> mind
> >>>>> that our code doesn't care where the animation data came from.
> >>>>> You
> >>>>> can animate your characters with an animations created in Maya,
> >>>>> Blender or 3DSMax. You could also manipulate the skeleton
> >>>>> procedurally.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Peter
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Aug 29, 2007, at 1:06 PM, David Faught wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This looks pretty cool!  What are you using for the motion
> >>>>>> capture
> >>>>>> part of this project?  There is some interesting stuff in the
> >>>>>> "extras"
> >>>>>> part of the Monster House movie DVD that shows their setup.
> >>>>>> Is it
> >>>>>> similar to that?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter Moore wrote:
> >>>>>> I've just uploaded a new SkeletalAnimation package to the
> >>>>>> Jabberwocky
> >>>>>> code repository. I've also uploaded new versions of the OpenGL
> >>>>>> packages which include the support for GLSL that has
> >>>>>> previously been
> >>>>>> available in the Hedgehog Public Contributions repository. For
> >>>>>> those
> >>>>>> that don't know where the Jabberwocky code lives see:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://croquetproject.org/index.php/
> >>>>>> Downloads#Croquet_Source_Code_Repositories
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To see a video demonstration go to: http://
> >>>>>> hedgehog.software.umn.edu/
> >>>>>> croquet/croquetMovies/BetterAvatars3.mov
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Special thanks to Derek Arndt and Mike Kaeding for all of
> >>>>>> their hard
> >>>>>> work this summer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

Derek Arndt
> Okay, that makes sense.  I guess my first questions would be in the
> area of the ogre format and what it encompasses.  The pieces that I'm
> guessing would be needed are: 1) the mesh(es), 2) related textures,
> colors, etc., 3) the skeleton(s) (I don't really know exactly what
> that entails in relation to the mesh), and one or more animations
> maybe consisting of some kind of timeline and absolute and/or relative
> skeleton positions at each time.  How much of this is in the ogre
> format?  Are there related standards, such as HAnim or SL avatar
> structures and how does your package relate to them?

Your list is pretty close, an ogre animated mesh (for us) looks like:

test.mesh.xml
test.skeleton.xml
test.material
test.png

The mesh contains the vertices, normals, texcoords, bone weights, and  
any vertex animations (so we use these to get the characters or talk  
and blink).
The skeleton contains the initial bone transforms (often called the  
bind pose) and any skeletal animations.  The animation times are  
relative for both of the animation type (so each animation's keyframe  
set will start at 0.0).
The material file is referenced by the mesh file and contains  
lighting data and which texture to apply.

If I'm thinking of the same structures as you are (I'm reminded of  
MD2 loaders that all read in the binary data and put them into  
similar data structures), then I'm not aware of any standards of that  
type.

Hope that helps,
Derek

On Aug 31, 2007, at 2:07 PM, David Faught wrote:

> On 8/31/07, Derek Arndt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hey Dave,
>
> Hey Derek,
>
>
>> With the skeletal animation package available to the public we're
>> happy to have people using the code and building applications with it
>> - what we don't currently offer are any models we can freely
>> distribute for people to at least initially test with.  We're looking
>> to get one or more character meshes with a skeleton and a few
>> animations (say stand, walk, dance) to show-case what these animated
>> models are like and how others can use them in their croquet  
>> projects.
>>
>> We've been using Maya to create these models, but since we use the
>> ogre model format, a number of other popular programs support the
>> format (blender, 3ds max, to name a few).
>
> Okay, that makes sense.  I guess my first questions would be in the
> area of the ogre format and what it encompasses.  The pieces that I'm
> guessing would be needed are: 1) the mesh(es), 2) related textures,
> colors, etc., 3) the skeleton(s) (I don't really know exactly what
> that entails in relation to the mesh), and one or more animations
> maybe consisting of some kind of timeline and absolute and/or relative
> skeleton positions at each time.  How much of this is in the ogre
> format?  Are there related standards, such as HAnim or SL avatar
> structures and how does your package relate to them?
>
>>
>> Peter will add on some details, but this is the gist of it.  This new
>> animated mesh class has tons of potential that we're trying to make
>> it as easy as possible to jump in and get a feel for what kinds of
>> things you can create.
>>
>> Derek
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Dave
>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2007, at 11:58 AM, David Faught wrote:
>>
>>> back on the list
>>>
>>> Hi Peter,
>>>
>>> Here is a brief discussion we had about building a working
>>> publicly-available example of the skeletal animation.  Maybe you can
>>> elaborate on what would be required, and I will volunteer to
>>> coordinate a public effort to build it, or them ...
>>>
>>> Any volunteers that would like to participate??
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 8/30/07, David Faught <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Depending on what is required, yes, I'd be interested on working on
>>>> that.  It might also be worth an appeal for participation on the
>>>> mailing list.  I'm getting to a point now where I'm going to set
>>>> aside
>>>> the Wrinkle project for a while, although there are tons more  
>>>> things
>>>> to do with shaders and even the UI.  I have tried my hand at
>>>> animation
>>>> a few different times in different computer mediums, and I've been
>>>> intending to try it in Croquet too.
>>>>
>>>> Just from searching though lots of 3D tools, I've come across some
>>>> things that may be important for this, but I'm certainly not an
>>>> expert.  Speaking of which, have you looked at QAvimator
>>>> http://www.qavimator.org/ at all?  It's an interesting open source
>>>> bvh
>>>> animator targetting Second Life.  Might be a good fit here,  
>>>> depending
>>>> on skeletal requirements.
>>>>
>>>> Later,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On 8/30/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> I'd love to provide some good examples but the models that we've
>>>>> been
>>>>> using were purchased online and I can't redistribute them. So  
>>>>> until
>>>>> we have some good freely available meshes it's not of much use.
>>>>> Someone could take the meshes we released earlier and get them to
>>>>> work with the new animation system, but that's not something we  
>>>>> can
>>>>> spend time on at the moment. Let me know if you're interested  
>>>>> enough
>>>>> to try something like that and I can tell you what needs to be  
>>>>> done.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:34 PM, David Faught wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> off-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hhmm, I quickly updated and looked through this last night and
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> see a concrete example anywhere.  Did I miss it?  If not, what
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be the simplest quickest way to try it out?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/29/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> There is a motion capture lab here at the University that we  
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> lucky enough to get access to. I haven't seen what they used for
>>>>>>> Monster House but I'm sure it's something very similar. Keep in
>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>> that our code doesn't care where the animation data came from.
>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>> can animate your characters with an animations created in Maya,
>>>>>>> Blender or 3DSMax. You could also manipulate the skeleton
>>>>>>> procedurally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Peter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2007, at 1:06 PM, David Faught wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This looks pretty cool!  What are you using for the motion
>>>>>>>> capture
>>>>>>>> part of this project?  There is some interesting stuff in the
>>>>>>>> "extras"
>>>>>>>> part of the Monster House movie DVD that shows their setup.
>>>>>>>> Is it
>>>>>>>> similar to that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Moore wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've just uploaded a new SkeletalAnimation package to the
>>>>>>>> Jabberwocky
>>>>>>>> code repository. I've also uploaded new versions of the OpenGL
>>>>>>>> packages which include the support for GLSL that has
>>>>>>>> previously been
>>>>>>>> available in the Hedgehog Public Contributions repository. For
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>> that don't know where the Jabberwocky code lives see:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://croquetproject.org/index.php/
>>>>>>>> Downloads#Croquet_Source_Code_Repositories
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To see a video demonstration go to: http://
>>>>>>>> hedgehog.software.umn.edu/
>>>>>>>> croquet/croquetMovies/BetterAvatars3.mov
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Special thanks to Derek Arndt and Mike Kaeding for all of
>>>>>>>> their hard
>>>>>>>> work this summer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>

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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

David Faught
On 8/31/07, Derek Arndt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > How much of this is in the ogre
> > format?  Are there related standards, such as HAnim or SL avatar
> > structures and how does your package relate to them?
>
> Your list is pretty close, an ogre animated mesh (for us) looks like:
>
> test.mesh.xml
> test.skeleton.xml
> test.material
> test.png
>
> The mesh contains the vertices, normals, texcoords, bone weights, and
> any vertex animations (so we use these to get the characters or talk
> and blink).
> The skeleton contains the initial bone transforms (often called the
> bind pose) and any skeletal animations.  The animation times are
> relative for both of the animation type (so each animation's keyframe
> set will start at 0.0).
> The material file is referenced by the mesh file and contains
> lighting data and which texture to apply.
>
> If I'm thinking of the same structures as you are (I'm reminded of
> MD2 loaders that all read in the binary data and put them into
> similar data structures), then I'm not aware of any standards of that
> type.

I'm not sure we're quite at the point here.  I'm asking more about
skeletal standards like "the skeleton must contain 2 toe groups, 2
feet, 2 lower legs, 2 upper legs" etc.  I believe that HAnim spells
out such a thing and the SL avatars also must have a similar skeleton
"standard" structure.  Does this apply to your package or is it more
general?

Thanks,
Dave
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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

Peter Moore-5
>
> I'm not sure we're quite at the point here.  I'm asking more about
> skeletal standards like "the skeleton must contain 2 toe groups, 2
> feet, 2 lower legs, 2 upper legs" etc.  I believe that HAnim spells
> out such a thing and the SL avatars also must have a similar skeleton
> "standard" structure.  Does this apply to your package or is it more
> general?
>

It is more general. It can handle any type of skeleton structure you  
provide as long as the mesh is properly rigged. For instance, you  
could just as easily import a cow avatar as a human.

-Peter

> Thanks,
> Dave

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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

David Faught
I'm starting to get the idea for the model and animation needs.  I'm
guessing that your package will load in the ogre format, display it in
Croquet and play back the animations.  What triggers the animations?
Are they tied in to your earlier robot work and its triggers?  Or is
some kind of UI work also needed for a complete example?

On 8/31/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> > I'm not sure we're quite at the point here.  I'm asking more about
> > skeletal standards like "the skeleton must contain 2 toe groups, 2
> > feet, 2 lower legs, 2 upper legs" etc.  I believe that HAnim spells
> > out such a thing and the SL avatars also must have a similar skeleton
> > "standard" structure.  Does this apply to your package or is it more
> > general?
> >
>
> It is more general. It can handle any type of skeleton structure you
> provide as long as the mesh is properly rigged. For instance, you
> could just as easily import a cow avatar as a human.
>
> -Peter
>
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
>
>
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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

sanyaade
In reply to this post by David Faught
Cool guys!

> >> Just from searching though lots of 3D tools, I've come across some
> >> things that may be important for this, but I'm certainly not an
> >> expert.  Speaking of which, have you looked at QAvimator
> >> http://www.qavimator.org/ at all?  It's an interesting open source
> >> bvh
> >> animator targetting Second Life.  Might be a good fit here, depending
> >> on skeletal requirements.
> >>

There is also openfx 3D [Combined modeler/Animator] industrial stanndard
opensource at http://www.openfx.org ; Give it a try

Stay blessed!!!

Sanyaade



----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faught" <[hidden email]>
To: "Derek Arndt" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>; "Peter Moore" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [croquet-dev] [ANN] skeletal animation package


> On 8/31/07, Derek Arndt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hey Dave,
>
> Hey Derek,
>
>
> > With the skeletal animation package available to the public we're
> > happy to have people using the code and building applications with it
> > - what we don't currently offer are any models we can freely
> > distribute for people to at least initially test with.  We're looking
> > to get one or more character meshes with a skeleton and a few
> > animations (say stand, walk, dance) to show-case what these animated
> > models are like and how others can use them in their croquet projects.
> >
> > We've been using Maya to create these models, but since we use the
> > ogre model format, a number of other popular programs support the
> > format (blender, 3ds max, to name a few).
>
> Okay, that makes sense.  I guess my first questions would be in the
> area of the ogre format and what it encompasses.  The pieces that I'm
> guessing would be needed are: 1) the mesh(es), 2) related textures,
> colors, etc., 3) the skeleton(s) (I don't really know exactly what
> that entails in relation to the mesh), and one or more animations
> maybe consisting of some kind of timeline and absolute and/or relative
> skeleton positions at each time.  How much of this is in the ogre
> format?  Are there related standards, such as HAnim or SL avatar
> structures and how does your package relate to them?
>
> >
> > Peter will add on some details, but this is the gist of it.  This new
> > animated mesh class has tons of potential that we're trying to make
> > it as easy as possible to jump in and get a feel for what kinds of
> > things you can create.
> >
> > Derek
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Dave
>
> >
> >
> > On Aug 31, 2007, at 11:58 AM, David Faught wrote:
> >
> > > back on the list
> > >
> > > Hi Peter,
> > >
> > > Here is a brief discussion we had about building a working
> > > publicly-available example of the skeletal animation.  Maybe you can
> > > elaborate on what would be required, and I will volunteer to
> > > coordinate a public effort to build it, or them ...
> > >
> > > Any volunteers that would like to participate??
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > On 8/30/07, David Faught <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> Depending on what is required, yes, I'd be interested on working on
> > >> that.  It might also be worth an appeal for participation on the
> > >> mailing list.  I'm getting to a point now where I'm going to set
> > >> aside
> > >> the Wrinkle project for a while, although there are tons more things
> > >> to do with shaders and even the UI.  I have tried my hand at
> > >> animation
> > >> a few different times in different computer mediums, and I've been
> > >> intending to try it in Croquet too.
> > >>
> > >> Just from searching though lots of 3D tools, I've come across some
> > >> things that may be important for this, but I'm certainly not an
> > >> expert.  Speaking of which, have you looked at QAvimator
> > >> http://www.qavimator.org/ at all?  It's an interesting open source
> > >> bvh
> > >> animator targetting Second Life.  Might be a good fit here, depending
> > >> on skeletal requirements.
> > >>
> > >> Later,
> > >> Dave
> > >>
> > >> On 8/30/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>> I'd love to provide some good examples but the models that we've
> > >>> been
> > >>> using were purchased online and I can't redistribute them. So until
> > >>> we have some good freely available meshes it's not of much use.
> > >>> Someone could take the meshes we released earlier and get them to
> > >>> work with the new animation system, but that's not something we can
> > >>> spend time on at the moment. Let me know if you're interested enough
> > >>> to try something like that and I can tell you what needs to be done.
> > >>>
> > >>> -Peter
> > >>>
> > >>> On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:34 PM, David Faught wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> off-list
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi Peter,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hhmm, I quickly updated and looked through this last night and
> > >>>> didn't
> > >>>> see a concrete example anywhere.  Did I miss it?  If not, what
> > >>>> would
> > >>>> be the simplest quickest way to try it out?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>> Dave
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 8/29/07, Peter Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>> There is a motion capture lab here at the University that we were
> > >>>>> lucky enough to get access to. I haven't seen what they used for
> > >>>>> Monster House but I'm sure it's something very similar. Keep in
> > >>>>> mind
> > >>>>> that our code doesn't care where the animation data came from.
> > >>>>> You
> > >>>>> can animate your characters with an animations created in Maya,
> > >>>>> Blender or 3DSMax. You could also manipulate the skeleton
> > >>>>> procedurally.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -Peter
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Aug 29, 2007, at 1:06 PM, David Faught wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> This looks pretty cool!  What are you using for the motion
> > >>>>>> capture
> > >>>>>> part of this project?  There is some interesting stuff in the
> > >>>>>> "extras"
> > >>>>>> part of the Monster House movie DVD that shows their setup.
> > >>>>>> Is it
> > >>>>>> similar to that?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Peter Moore wrote:
> > >>>>>> I've just uploaded a new SkeletalAnimation package to the
> > >>>>>> Jabberwocky
> > >>>>>> code repository. I've also uploaded new versions of the OpenGL
> > >>>>>> packages which include the support for GLSL that has
> > >>>>>> previously been
> > >>>>>> available in the Hedgehog Public Contributions repository. For
> > >>>>>> those
> > >>>>>> that don't know where the Jabberwocky code lives see:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> http://croquetproject.org/index.php/
> > >>>>>> Downloads#Croquet_Source_Code_Repositories
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> To see a video demonstration go to: http://
> > >>>>>> hedgehog.software.umn.edu/
> > >>>>>> croquet/croquetMovies/BetterAvatars3.mov
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Special thanks to Derek Arndt and Mike Kaeding for all of
> > >>>>>> their hard
> > >>>>>> work this summer.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> >
>

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Re: [ANN] skeletal animation package

Peter Moore-5
In reply to this post by David Faught
> On Sep 1, 2007, at 8:18 AM, David Faught wrote:
> I'm starting to get the idea for the model and animation needs.  I'm
> guessing that your package will load in the ogre format, display it in
> Croquet and play back the animations.  What triggers the animations?

Correct. You use TLoadOgreMesh to parse the xml mesh, skeleton and  
animation data. TLoadOgreMesh>>frame returns an instance of  
TAnimatedMesh which is what you will add to your space. For example:

fileName := FileDirectory pathFromURI: 'Contents/Characters/
Joe.mesh.xml'.
mesh := (TLoadOgreMesh initializeWithFileName: fileName scale: 0.03)  
frame.
space addChild: mesh.

To trigger an animation you send either #playAnimation:type: or  
#playAnimation:type:playType: to your TAnimatedMesh object. The  
animation type can be either #skeletal or #vertex while the play type  
can be either #cycle (looping) or #action (one-time). Sending  
#playAnimation:type: defaults to #cycle for skeletal animations and  
#action for vertex animations.

> Are they tied in to your earlier robot work and its triggers?  Or is
> some kind of UI work also needed for a complete example?

This is all new code and is completely separate from any previous  
work we've done.

-Peter