ANSI Smalltalk

On 15/11/2007, Colin Putney <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd like to see increased consistency between Smalltalk dialects so I
can write an app or library on one dialect and run it on another.  I
already can do that with Sport, but I would prefer that Sport was not
needed.

ANSI is a workable means to that end.

--
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Hi!

"Bruce Badger" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Please note that not all share the "idea" that Squeak is "just another
Smalltalk". IMHO Smalltalk *as a standard* is dead - the existing ANSI
hasn't evolved for ages AFAIK.

I much rather see Squeak move ahead at the front (for example by
introducing Traits) and start reshaping - than to exist solely as an
"open source Smalltalk".

regards, Göran

On 15/11/2007, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please note that not all share the "idea" that Squeak is "just another
> Smalltalk".

Nor would I.

> IMHO Smalltalk *as a standard* is dead - the existing ANSI
> hasn't evolved for ages AFAIK.

Right, the initial standard was produced as a one off effort and the
ANSI project got closed down once the standard was released.  What we
are trying to do now is to get an on-going process started with the
aim of producing a new version evey 18 months to two years.  By
time-boxing the process we won't be held up by things for which no
consensus can be reached, but anything worth having in the standard
will make it in the end.

> I much rather see Squeak move ahead at the front (for example by
> introducing Traits) and start reshaping - than to exist solely as an
> "open source Smalltalk".

Me too.

All the best,
    Bruce
--
Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills
http://www.openskills.org/

On 15/11/2007, Jecel Assumpcao Jr <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah, sorry :-/

My understanding is that, yes, non US resident people may be formal
voting members of the project.  There are some situations where
non-resident members are not allowed on ANSI projects, but the
information I have is that the Smalltalk project should be OK for
anyone.

We will know for sure when we submit the project application to INCITS.

All the best,
    Bruce
--
Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills
http://www.openskills.org/

Göran wrote on Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:39:17 +0200
> "Bruce Badger" wrote:
> > On 15/11/2007, Colin Putney wrote:
> > > On 14-Nov-07, at 10:11 AM, Bruce Badger wrote:
> > > > On 14/11/2007, Jecel Assumpcao Jr wrote:
> > > >> Note that ANSI = AMERICAN National Standards Institute
> > > >> Does it make sense for non US people to participate?
> > > >
> > > > I think so.  This is not a matter of jingoism but rather a matter of
> > > > reusing what we already have instead of starting from scratch.

What I was actually trying to ask was if ANSI rules allow such
participation? If you take ABNT (which is the brazillian equivalent) as
an example, people from around the world are free to follow its
standards (supposing they can read Portuguese ;-) but I am pretty sure
only individuals and companies from Brazil would get to vote on these
same standards.

I have the draft standard open on my screen whenever I am making some
design decision in my own Neo Smalltalk project (which doesn't happen
much yet since I am still mostly at the transistor level and working
up), so I very much agree with this. If there is a really good reason to
be different, then so be it. But pointless incompatibilities just hurt
the Smalltalk community needlessly.
 
> Please note that not all share the "idea" that Squeak is "just another
> Smalltalk". IMHO Smalltalk *as a standard* is dead - the existing ANSI
> hasn't evolved for ages AFAIK.

Neo Smalltalk is far more radical than Squeak and I am putting in the
effort to make it as ANSI compatible as possible.
 
> I much rather see Squeak move ahead at the front (for example by
> introducing Traits) and start reshaping - than to exist solely as an
> "open source Smalltalk".

Traits actually make it easier for Squeak to be compatible with the
standard. A Smalltalk doesn't even have to have classes (mine doesn't)
to comply. And a revised standard could be even more careful not to
limit the evolution of the language than what we currently have.

-- Jecel

I don't see why not. Brazilians are Americans, right? ;-)

On Nov 14, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr wrote:

> Note that ANSI = AMERICAN National Standards Institute
>
> Does it make sense for non US people to participate?
>
> -- Jecel (from Brazil)
>