About Skeleton
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Hi,
The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet morph, and that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm wondering why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it could be a nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow loading of external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I think we might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo.
I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished projects but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the box. And it doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple comparison with DrGeo:
(PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2 (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38 (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654
(PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765 (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10 (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214
(PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size. 1863 (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode. 17154 Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone will have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version dates from 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of an issue.
Anyway, if you want to test it: http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11. Cheers, Richo
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On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote: > Hi, > > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet morph, and that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm wondering why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it could be a nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow loading of external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I think we might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo. > > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished projects but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the box. And it doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple comparison with DrGeo: > > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2 > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38 > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654 > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765 > > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10 > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214 > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size. 1863 > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode. 17154 > > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone will have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version dates from 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of an issue. > > Anyway, if you want to test it: http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11. > > Cheers, > Richo How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC project? Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects. - Bert - _______________________________________________ squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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I also would like to integrate Skeleton in Etoys sometime.
It's a nice tool and give many new ways to make animation etc. I have not looked at the code at all. Is the license ok ? There is not much documentation as far as I know. We could add it and gradually expose it as it get documented and tested for bugs etc. Karl On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet morph, and that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm wondering why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it could be a nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow loading of external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I think we might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo. >> >> I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished projects but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the box. And it doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple comparison with DrGeo: >> >> (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2 >> (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38 >> (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654 >> (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765 >> >> (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10 >> (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214 >> (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size. 1863 >> (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode. 17154 >> >> Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone will have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version dates from 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of an issue. >> >> Anyway, if you want to test it: http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11. >> >> Cheers, >> Richo > > How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC project? Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects. > > - Bert - > > > _______________________________________________ > squeakland mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV files, but not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of tiles.
Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects. I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for integrating Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want the I/O of csv files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It shouldn't be that difficult, I suppose.
Cheers, Richo
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 1:32 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: I also would like to integrate Skeleton in Etoys sometime. Mmmm... I didn't look but we might have a problem because it seems to be SqueakL. That's not acceptable, right?
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In reply to this post by Ricardo Moran
I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and basic and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. Couldn't the functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton allow plots? If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them in etoys also. Randy Randall Caton 41596 Bald Eagle Drive Bigfork, MN 56628 218-832-3490 Sent from my iPhone
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On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Randy Caton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and basic > and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. Couldn't the > functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton allow plots? > If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them in etoys > also. > Randy Hi I think it is possible to make all these graphs out of skeleton. >From what I see is Skeleton a extension to the way we script and visualize in Etoys, It seems to have a thought out model. Only working with it and managing the code will tell if it something we find useful and worth while. Karl > > Randall Caton > 41596 Bald Eagle Drive > Bigfork, MN 56628 > 218-832-3490 > http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton > Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet morph, and >> > that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm wondering >> > why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it could be a >> > nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow loading of >> > external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I think we >> > might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo. >> > >> > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished projects >> > but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the box. And it >> > doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple comparison with >> > DrGeo: >> > >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2 >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38 >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654 >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765 >> > >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10 >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214 >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size. 1863 >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode. 17154 >> > >> > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone will >> > have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version dates from >> > 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of an issue. >> > >> > Anyway, if you want to test it: >> > http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Richo >> >> How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC project? > > My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV files, but > not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports > functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of tiles. > >> >> Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects. > > I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for integrating > Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want the I/O of csv > files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It shouldn't be that > difficult, I suppose. > Cheers, > Richo > >> >> - Bert - >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > > _______________________________________________ > squeakland mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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Hi,
I uploaded to the inbox a version of Skeleton with a few changes of mine that allows you to use a spreadsheet just as you would use mine to import/export data and iterate over its contents. I also commited a version of the CSV package, which I use to do the importing. However, I didn't remember to look at the license of the package before clicking commit and now that I did, I see it doesn't specify MIT, so I'll ask the author about it (please forgive me and remove the commit if it can be a problem).
Anyway, if you can please tell me what you think. Cheers, Richo
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:28 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Randy Caton
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Randy Caton <[hidden email]> wrote:
I too like the fact that my spreadsheet it's really simple (although I don't really like my implementation) but if we are thinking of including a table like object, I'm pretty sure Skeleton is the right choice. The only disadvantage I can see is the lack of a scroll bar to manage big amounts of data. I'm thinking this could be solved with a ScrollPane object acting as a playfield where you could drop big objects and use the scrollbars to move around. I tried to do it today but I don't understand how the ScrollPane works exactly.
I don't know if Skeletong allows plots, but as Karl said, it should be possible to build them with it. As for my graphs, IIRC there were a few technical issues preventing them to be included, but I'll see what I can do this weekend to fix them.
Cheers, Richo
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On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 1:18 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Randy Caton <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and basic >> and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. > > I too like the fact that my spreadsheet it's really simple (although I don't > really like my implementation) but if we are thinking of including a table > like object, I'm pretty sure Skeleton is the right choice. The only > disadvantage I can see is the lack of a scroll bar to manage big amounts of > data. I'm thinking this could be solved with a ScrollPane object acting as a > playfield where you could drop big objects and use the scrollbars to move > around. I tried to do it today but I don't understand how the ScrollPane > works exactly. > >> >> Couldn't the functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does >> Skeleton allow plots? If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to >> see them in etoys also. > > I don't know if Skeletong allows plots, but as Karl said, it should be > possible to build them with it. As for my graphs, IIRC there were a few > technical issues preventing them to be included, but I'll see what I can do > this weekend to fix them. > Cheers, > Richo Great you are starting to work on this :-) I'll be checking it out too. What did you change from the original code ? I think we have to change the layout of the ticker clock in the spreadsheet, because it now gets kind of cramped. Karl > >> >> Randy >> >> Randall Caton >> 41596 Bald Eagle Drive >> Bigfork, MN 56628 >> 218-832-3490 >> http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote: >>> >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet morph, and >>> > that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm wondering >>> > why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it could be a >>> > nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow loading of >>> > external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I think we >>> > might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo. >>> > >>> > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished projects >>> > but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the box. And it >>> > doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple comparison with >>> > DrGeo: >>> > >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2 >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38 >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654 >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765 >>> > >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10 >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214 >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size. 1863 >>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode. 17154 >>> > >>> > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone will >>> > have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version dates from >>> > 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of an issue. >>> > >>> > Anyway, if you want to test it: >>> > http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Richo >>> >>> How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC project? >> >> My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV files, >> but not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports >> functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of tiles. >> >>> >>> Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects. >> >> I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for >> integrating Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want >> the I/O of csv files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It >> shouldn't be that difficult, I suppose. >> Cheers, >> Richo >> >>> >>> - Bert - >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> squeakland mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >> >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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In reply to this post by Ricardo Moran
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi, > I uploaded to the inbox a version of Skeleton with a few changes of mine > that allows you to use a spreadsheet just as you would use mine to > import/export data and iterate over its contents. > I also commited a version of the CSV package, which I use to do the > importing. However, I didn't remember to look at the license of the package > before clicking commit and now that I did, I see it doesn't specify MIT, so > I'll ask the author about it (please forgive me and remove the commit if it > can be a problem). > Anyway, if you can please tell me what you think. > Cheers, > Richo That is CSV Parser from SqueakSource right ? I don't see a licence anywhere ... Can you mail Avi Bryant and ask ? Karl > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:28 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Randy Caton <[hidden email]> wrote: >> > I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and >> > basic >> > and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. Couldn't the >> > functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton allow >> > plots? >> > If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them in etoys >> > also. >> > Randy >> >> Hi >> I think it is possible to make all these graphs out of skeleton. >> From what I see is Skeleton a extension to the way we script and >> visualize in Etoys, >> It seems to have a thought out model. >> >> >> Only working with it and managing the code will tell if it something >> we find useful and worth while. >> >> Karl >> >> >> > >> > Randall Caton >> > 41596 Bald Eagle Drive >> > Bigfork, MN 56628 >> > 218-832-3490 >> > http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg >> > <[hidden email]> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote: >> >> >> >> > Hi, >> >> > >> >> > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet morph, >> >> > and >> >> > that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm >> >> > wondering >> >> > why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it >> >> > could be a >> >> > nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow loading >> >> > of >> >> > external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I think >> >> > we >> >> > might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo. >> >> > >> >> > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished projects >> >> > but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the box. >> >> > And it >> >> > doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple comparison >> >> > with >> >> > DrGeo: >> >> > >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2 >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38 >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654 >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765 >> >> > >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10 >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214 >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size. 1863 >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode. 17154 >> >> > >> >> > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone >> >> > will >> >> > have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version dates >> >> > from >> >> > 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of an >> >> > issue. >> >> > >> >> > Anyway, if you want to test it: >> >> > http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11. >> >> > >> >> > Cheers, >> >> > Richo >> >> >> >> How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC >> >> project? >> > >> > My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV files, >> > but >> > not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports >> > functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of tiles. >> > >> >> >> >> Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects. >> > >> > I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for >> > integrating >> > Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want the I/O of >> > csv >> > files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It shouldn't be that >> > difficult, I suppose. >> > Cheers, >> > Richo >> > >> >> >> >> - Bert - >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> squeakland mailing list >> >> [hidden email] >> >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > squeakland mailing list >> > [hidden email] >> > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > etoys-dev mailing list >> > [hidden email] >> > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev >> > >> > > > squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:12 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
I haven't changed the original code, I added things :). I added #width: and #height to SkSheetMorph, #additionsToViewerCategories and #initialize to SkSheetMorph class, and a bunch of extension methods to Player.
I think we have to change the layout of the ticker clock in the Yes, I think that too. That's easy to fix in SkSheetMorph>>#showPageControls. I don't know where to move the sheet's name, though. I like the fact that it doesn't bother much where it is now.
Cheers, Richo
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, I did. I'm waiting for an answer now... Richo
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Hi guys, I haven't received any response from Avi Bryant regarding the license of his csv parser, probably because I might have an old/incorrect mail. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because it's easy to write one. So I uploaded a new version of Skeleton with my little csv parser and I moved the CSV package to treated.
I think this version is good enough to be integrated in Etoys, what do you think? Cheers, Richo P.S. I attached a simple project in order to help educators test it without going through Monticello :)
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Dancing stars.002.pr (121K) |
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This is looking great.
What we should do now is document it so it's easier to get a start using it. Once we include it it should be a example project or two that explain the use and features. Karl On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi guys, I haven't received any response from Avi Bryant regarding the > license of his csv parser, probably because I might have an old/incorrect > mail. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because it's easy to write one. So I > uploaded a new version of Skeleton with my little csv parser and I moved the > CSV package to treated. > I think this version is good enough to be integrated in Etoys, what do you > think? > Cheers, > Richo > P.S. I attached a simple project in order to help educators test it without > going through Monticello :) > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > I uploaded to the inbox a version of Skeleton with a few changes of >>> > mine >>> > that allows you to use a spreadsheet just as you would use mine to >>> > import/export data and iterate over its contents. >>> > I also commited a version of the CSV package, which I use to do the >>> > importing. However, I didn't remember to look at the license of the >>> > package >>> > before clicking commit and now that I did, I see it doesn't specify >>> > MIT, so >>> > I'll ask the author about it (please forgive me and remove the commit >>> > if it >>> > can be a problem). >>> > Anyway, if you can please tell me what you think. >>> > Cheers, >>> > Richo >>> >>> That is CSV Parser from SqueakSource right ? >>> I don't see a licence anywhere ... >>> Can you mail Avi Bryant and ask ? >> >> Yes, I did. I'm waiting for an answer now... >> Richo >> >>> >>> Karl >>> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:28 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Randy Caton <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >> > I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and >>> >> > basic >>> >> > and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. Couldn't the >>> >> > functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton allow >>> >> > plots? >>> >> > If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them in >>> >> > etoys >>> >> > also. >>> >> > Randy >>> >> >>> >> Hi >>> >> I think it is possible to make all these graphs out of skeleton. >>> >> From what I see is Skeleton a extension to the way we script and >>> >> visualize in Etoys, >>> >> It seems to have a thought out model. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Only working with it and managing the code will tell if it something >>> >> we find useful and worth while. >>> >> >>> >> Karl >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > Randall Caton >>> >> > 41596 Bald Eagle Drive >>> >> > Bigfork, MN 56628 >>> >> > 218-832-3490 >>> >> > http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton >>> >> > Sent from my iPhone >>> >> > On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg >>> >> > <[hidden email]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > Hi, >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet >>> >> >> > morph, >>> >> >> > and >>> >> >> > that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm >>> >> >> > wondering >>> >> >> > why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it >>> >> >> > could be a >>> >> >> > nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow >>> >> >> > loading >>> >> >> > of >>> >> >> > external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I >>> >> >> > think >>> >> >> > we >>> >> >> > might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished >>> >> >> > projects >>> >> >> > but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the >>> >> >> > box. >>> >> >> > And it >>> >> >> > doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple >>> >> >> > comparison >>> >> >> > with >>> >> >> > DrGeo: >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2 >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38 >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654 >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765 >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10 >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214 >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size. 1863 >>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode. 17154 >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone >>> >> >> > will >>> >> >> > have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version >>> >> >> > dates >>> >> >> > from >>> >> >> > 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of >>> >> >> > an >>> >> >> > issue. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Anyway, if you want to test it: >>> >> >> > http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Cheers, >>> >> >> > Richo >>> >> >> >>> >> >> How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC >>> >> >> project? >>> >> > >>> >> > My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV >>> >> > files, >>> >> > but >>> >> > not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports >>> >> > functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of >>> >> > tiles. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects. >>> >> > >>> >> > I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for >>> >> > integrating >>> >> > Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want the >>> >> > I/O of >>> >> > csv >>> >> > files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It shouldn't be >>> >> > that >>> >> > difficult, I suppose. >>> >> > Cheers, >>> >> > Richo >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> - Bert - >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> squeakland mailing list >>> >> >> [hidden email] >>> >> >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >>> >> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > squeakland mailing list >>> >> > [hidden email] >>> >> > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >>> >> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > etoys-dev mailing list >>> >> > [hidden email] >>> >> > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > >>> > >> > > squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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In reply to this post by Ricardo Moran
Ricardo,
I looked at your project with skeleton and on the surface it is the same as what your wrote for GSoC. Either would be great with me. I couldn't evaluate which underlying code is better. I would also like to see your chart, calendar and graphics IO objects included. Would it be possible for you to make a version of Etoys that has all those in it so we could test it on the XO? Thank you for continuing your great work. Randy On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi guys, I haven't received any response from Avi Bryant regarding the license of his csv parser, probably because I might have an old/incorrect mail. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because it's easy to write one. So I uploaded a new version of Skeleton with my little csv parser and I moved the CSV package to treated. -- The views expressed in this email are my own and not necessarily those of CNU. Randall Caton 41596 Bald Eagle Drive Bigfork, MN 56628 218-832-3490 email: [hidden email] web: www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton _______________________________________________ squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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Hi, sorry for the delay.
I just came back from Montevideo for Ceibal Virtual Educa. It was a great event. And today before leaving to Buenos Aires we went to a school fair where children of 8 and 9 years old showed the work they did with the XOs. It was great! There were some animated short stories, kids making music, comics, animations, and a lot of presentations about different subjects. One kid showed me how to make a bar graph in Etoys. It was so cool! :)
I noticed, however, that most of the kids use Etoys merely as some sort of enhanced powerpoint but few of them actually see its potential for simulations and programming (they use Scratch or TurtleArt for that). I know that my sensation after seeing just a couple of students doesn't count as valid statistics, and I also know that there have been a lot of discussions about this in the list, but I can't help thinking something is wrong and I wanted to share it.
Anyway, coming back to the subject of this mail, regarding my changes of Skeleton: yes, I used the same code from GSoC except for the CSV parser which is now much better. Regarding charts, calendar and graphics I/O: I will fix the number lines with the suggestions from you and steve and then I'll make a project with everything included. Or do you mean a whole new version of Etoys?
Cheers, Richo
On Thursday, October 27, 2011, Randall Caton <[hidden email]> wrote: > Ricardo, > > I looked at your project with skeleton and on the surface it is the same as what your wrote for GSoC. Either would be great with me. I couldn't evaluate which underlying code is better. Exactly, I used the same code except for the CSV parser which is now much better. > I would also like to see your chart, calendar and graphics IO objects included. Would it be possible for you to make a version of Etoys that has all those in it so we could test it on the XO? Cheers,
Richo > > Thank you for continuing your great work. > > Randy > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi guys, I haven't received any response from Avi Bryant regarding the license of his csv parser, probably because I might have an old/incorrect mail. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because it's easy to write one. So I uploaded a new version of Skeleton with my little csv parser and I moved the CSV package to treated. > I think this version is good enough to be integrated in Etoys, what do you think? > Cheers, > Richo > P.S. I attached a simple project in order to help educators test it without going through Monticello :) > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi, >> I uploaded to the inbox a version of Skeleton with a few changes of mine >> that allows you to use a spreadsheet just as you would use mine to >> import/export data and iterate over its contents. >> I also commited a version of the CSV package, which I use to do the >> importing. However, I didn't remember to look at the license of the package >> before clicking commit and now that I did, I see it doesn't specify MIT, so >> I'll ask the author about it (please forgive me and remove the commit if it >> can be a problem). >> Anyway, if you can please tell me what you think. >> Cheers, >> Richo > > That is CSV Parser from SqueakSource right ? > I don't see a licence anywhere ... > Can you mail Avi Bryant and ask ? > > Yes, I did. I'm waiting for an answer now... > Richo > > > Karl >> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:28 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Randy Caton <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and >>> > basic >>> > and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. Couldn't the >>> > functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton allow >>> > plots? >>> > If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them in etoys >>> > also. >>> > Randy >>> >>> Hi >>> I think it is possible to make all these graphs out of skeleton. >>> From what I see is Skeleton a extension to the way we script and >>> visualize in Etoys, >>> It seems to have a thought out model. >>> >>> >>> Only working with it and managing the code will tell if it something >>> we find useful and worth while. >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> >>> > >>> > Randall Caton >>> > 41596 Bald Eagle Drive >>> > Bigfork, MN 56628 >>> > 218-832-3490 >>> > http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton >>> > Sent from my iPhone >>> > On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <[hidden email]> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 11, 201 > > -- > The views expressed in this email are my own > and not necessarily those of CNU. > > Randall Caton > 41596 Bald Eagle Drive > Bigfork, MN 56628 > 218-832-3490 > > email: [hidden email] > web: www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton > _______________________________________________ squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland |
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