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Alternatives to SMTPClient?

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Alternatives to SMTPClient?

Hi -

Does anyone know an alternative to the SMTPClient from the
Network-Protocols package? We've had several problems with it and I'm
just in the process of fixing yet another issue that cost us days to
track down. Is there an SMTP client somewhere that has been broadly used
in a variety of environments and is known to work reliably in all sorts
of setups?

Thanks,
- Andreas

Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

Andreas,

> Does anyone know an alternative to the SMTPClient from the Network-Protocols
> package?

Not knowing what problems you have with it, I don't know if my answer
will be sufficient:

We run the exim MTA (mail transfer agent) on our servers. SMTPClient
then connects to localhost and sends all email there. No latency, no
connectivity issues and queue management becomes exim's problem.

Problems with SMTPClient and debugging then becomes localised to the
interaction between SMTPClient and the exim running on localhost.

--
Danie Roux *shuffle* Adore Unix - http://danieroux.com

Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

Danie Roux wrote:
>> Does anyone know an alternative to the SMTPClient from the Network-Protocols
>> package?
>
> Not knowing what problems you have with it[...]

The just-plain-broken kind of problems, like that SMTPClient sends AUTH
before HELO. Or that it doesn't include the domain in the HELO. Etc.
Things that (from what I understand) are well-defined by RFC 2821 and
indicate that SMTPClient has simply never seen much (if any) real use.

And since it's one of our first lines of communications when we're
unable to send email a whole set of things can't move forward on the
installation site, the customer is stalled, and when we *then* find out
that we have to deploy a custom patch for it, my boss gets seriously
unhappy.

That's why I'm looking for something that has seen a bit more usage and
successfully talked to a variety of MTAs.

Cheers,
- Andreas

Michael Rueger-6

Re: Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

Andreas Raab wrote:

> That's why I'm looking for something that has seen a bit more usage and
> successfully talked to a variety of MTAs.

A completely different approach is to not use SMTP from Squeak at all
but post per http request to a small (PHP) script that then sends the
email. That's what we use for bug reporting in Sophie.

Michael

Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

Michael Rueger wrote:
> Andreas Raab wrote:
>
>> That's why I'm looking for something that has seen a bit more usage
>> and successfully talked to a variety of MTAs.
>
> A completely different approach is to not use SMTP from Squeak at all
> but post per http request to a small (PHP) script that then sends the
> email. That's what we use for bug reporting in Sophie.

Now there's a thought ... we use php for our admin pages already so we
could just move the mail delivery into php, too. Interesting. I'll check
it out, thanks for the idea!

Cheers,
- Andreas

Diogenes Moreira

Re: Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

So, and other approch is use the OSProcess to run a script to send
mails form O.S.
Linux and MACOs, have commands for send mail. In Windows you can use a
.wsh o .bat script.

That is horrible, but work.. :P.

I was use this method when then MTA use SSL sach unique method to
connect and SMTPClient don't support this cain of connection.

Best Regards.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Andreas Raab <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michael Rueger wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Raab wrote:
>>
>>> That's why I'm looking for something that has seen a bit more usage and
>>> successfully talked to a variety of MTAs.
>>
>> A completely different approach is to not use SMTP from Squeak at all but
>> post per http request to a small (PHP) script that then sends the email.
>> That's what we use for bug reporting in Sophie.
>
> Now there's a thought ... we use php for our admin pages already so we could
> just move the mail delivery into php, too. Interesting. I'll check it out,
> thanks for the idea!
>
> Cheers,
> - Andreas
>
>

Re: Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab

Andreas Raab wrote:
> Danie Roux wrote:
>>> Does anyone know an alternative to the SMTPClient from the
>>> Network-Protocols
>>> package?
>>
>> Not knowing what problems you have with it[...]
>
> The just-plain-broken kind of problems, like that SMTPClient sends AUTH
> before HELO. Or that it doesn't include the domain in the HELO. Etc.

You could harvest my fixes for those things on mantis. :) I fixed both
the auth stuff and some other things.

regards, Göran

Mariano Martinez Peck

Re: Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

In reply to this post by Diogenes Moreira

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Diogenes Moreira <[hidden email]> wrote:

So, and other approch is use the OSProcess to run a script to send
mails form O.S.
Linux and MACOs, have commands for send mail. In Windows you can use a
.wsh o .bat script.

That is horrible, but work.. :P.

I was use this method when then MTA use SSL sach unique method to
connect and SMTPClient don't support this cain of connection.

s/cain/kind ;)

Best Regards.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Andreas Raab <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Michael Rueger wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Raab wrote:
>>
>>> That's why I'm looking for something that has seen a bit more usage and
>>> successfully talked to a variety of MTAs.
>>
>> A completely different approach is to not use SMTP from Squeak at all but
>> post per http request to a small (PHP) script that then sends the email.
>> That's what we use for bug reporting in Sophie.
>
> Now there's a thought ... we use php for our admin pages already so we could
> just move the mail delivery into php, too. Interesting. I'll check it out,
> thanks for the idea!
>
> Cheers,
> - Andreas
>
>

Diogenes Moreira

Re: Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

lles ai espiquin inglish bery guel...

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Diogenes Moreira
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So, and other approch is use the OSProcess to run a script to send
>> mails form O.S.
>> Linux and MACOs, have commands for send mail. In Windows you can use a
>> .wsh o .bat script.
>>
>> That is horrible, but work.. :P.
>>
>> I was use this method when then MTA use SSL sach unique method to
>> connect and SMTPClient don't support this cain of connection.
>>
>
> s/cain/kind ;)
>
>
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Andreas Raab <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Michael Rueger wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Andreas Raab wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> That's why I'm looking for something that has seen a bit more usage
>> >>> and
>> >>> successfully talked to a variety of MTAs.
>> >>
>> >> A completely different approach is to not use SMTP from Squeak at all
>> >> but
>> >> post per http request to a small (PHP) script that then sends the
>> >> email.
>> >> That's what we use for bug reporting in Sophie.
>> >
>> > Now there's a thought ... we use php for our admin pages already so we
>> > could
>> > just move the mail delivery into php, too. Interesting. I'll check it
>> > out,
>> > thanks for the idea!
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > - Andreas
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

In reply to this post by Göran Krampe

Göran Krampe wrote:
> You could harvest my fixes for those things on mantis. :) I fixed both
> the auth stuff and some other things.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. The encodeString: issue was news to me.
Two question about correctness though:

1) Doesn't 2821 specify that a client SHOULD send EHLO first and only
when declined, try HELO? Your fix seems to assume that the client knows
that the server is going to understand EHLO.

2) Isn't the domain included in HELO/EHLO supposed to be the server's
domain? You're using NetNameResolver localHostName which (in my
understanding of the RFC) would only be correct when connecting to
localhost.

Cheers,
- Andreas

Jecel Assumpcao Jr

Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

Andreas Raab wrote:

> 2) Isn't the domain included in HELO/EHLO supposed to be the server's
> domain? You're using NetNameResolver localHostName which (in my
> understanding of the RFC) would only be correct when connecting to
> localhost.

Sort of - SMTP is a peer to peer protocol, which means your server
talking to their server. When you send HELO you use your server's name
and their server's name will be in the reply. Normally email software
has some complex configuration to determine what name the local server
should use, but if that is missing then using localHostName seems like a
good option.

-- Jecel

johnmci

Re: Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

In reply to this post by Michael Rueger-6

Expanding on that we took the seriously lame stack dump that Squeak by default provides and altered
the size limits so that it would make a dump oh maybe 192K in size!

That would flow to the server, then get emailed to me.
Note we did ask the user for permission

At times we would get dumps and in looking at them, it was:
I have NO idea why we are here, why is foo = 4. Should never happen...
So even with the entire stack dump, and all the variables printed, it was still "Why am I here?"

On 2009-12-04, at 12:32 AM, Michael Rueger wrote:

> Andreas Raab wrote:
>
>> That's why I'm looking for something that has seen a bit more usage and successfully talked to a variety of MTAs.
>
> A completely different approach is to not use SMTP from Squeak at all but post per http request to a small (PHP) script that then sends the email. That's what we use for bug reporting in Sophie.
>
> Michael
>

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]> Twitter: squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================

Re: Re: Alternatives to SMTPClient?

In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab

Hi!

Andreas Raab wrote:
> Göran Krampe wrote:
>> You could harvest my fixes for those things on mantis. :) I fixed both
>> the auth stuff and some other things.
>
> Thank you, thank you, thank you. The encodeString: issue was news to me.

Yeah, appeared when using Exim IIRC.

> Two question about correctness though:
>
> 1) Doesn't 2821 specify that a client SHOULD send EHLO first and only
> when declined, try HELO? Your fix seems to assume that the client knows
> that the server is going to understand EHLO.

May very well be correct - it was a looong time since I looked at that
stuff.

> 2) Isn't the domain included in HELO/EHLO supposed to be the server's
> domain? You're using NetNameResolver localHostName which (in my
> understanding of the RFC) would only be correct when connecting to
> localhost.

Ah. Well, you are most probably right :) since I don't recall this stuff.

> Cheers,
> - Andreas
>

Btw, we have had Gjallar systems sending quite a lot of email using
SMTPClient (but doing it in a separate Squeak process waking up and
popping a queue in Magma). My feeling is that it has been stable.

regards, Göran